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The following program is a
PBS Wisconsin Original

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production.
>> April showers bring

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destruction as storm damage
from hail, flooding and

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tornadoes wreaked havoc
across the state this week.

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I'm Frederica Freyberg.
Tonight on "Here& Now" we

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check in with the National
Weather Service on what's

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been hit. Then Senator Ron
Johnson gives his position

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on the war in Iran and a
PhD student back home in

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Iran provides an inside
point of view of what it's

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like to live inside the
warfare.

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And groups, again, bring a
legal challenge to the

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Enbridge oil pipeline. It's
"Here& Now" for April 17th.

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>> Funding for "Here& Now"
is provided by the Focus

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Fund for Journalism and
Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

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>> Governor Tony Evers this
week called a state of

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emergency due to storms in
Wisconsin. More than 20

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counties are under flood
warnings and it just keeps

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storming. Hardest hit
Milwaukee and southeast

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Wisconsin and farther north
toward green Bay and into

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central parts of the state.
Roads and highways have

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closed, with sandbagging
underway and more sopping

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messes in areas hard hit
last August. How unusual is

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this string of wet weather
and storms? We turn to Kurt

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Kotenberg, a meteorologist
in charge with the National

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Weather Service, joining us
from green Bay. And thanks

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a lot for being here.
>> Yeah, thank you for

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having us.
>> So what's been happening

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over the past several days
in your region?

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>> Yeah, it's just been one
round after the other.

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Pretty much everywhere
across Wisconsin. So not

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only the La Crosse area in
southwestern Wisconsin,

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they issued over 55 severe
weather warnings this week.

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The Milwaukee area has
issued over 79 severe

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weather warnings this week.
So it's just been statewide.

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And of course, we have the
terrible flooding up in

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east central and
northeastern Wisconsin.

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Long story short, so far in
the month of April, so this

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is through the 16th of
April. This doesn't even

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count the severe weather
happening Friday. The the

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National Weather Service
offices have issued 172

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severe thunderstorm
warnings, tornado warnings

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or flash flood warnings.
And to put that number in

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perspective, we average
about 22 statewide for the

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entire month of April. And
that number that we've had

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so far halfway through
April is more severe

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weather tornado or severe
thunderstorm, tornado

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warning, and more flash
flood warnings than we've

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issued in the past eight
years combined. So we are

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just way outside the box of
anything that we typically

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deal with here, not only in
April in Wisconsin, but

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almost just Wisconsin in
general, even during the

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peak summer months.
>> Boy, those those numbers

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you were sharing about the
number of, of weather

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alerts and storm warnings
and stuff that is stunning.

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>> It's wild. So, so this
past Tuesday, the 14th

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statewide, we issued 78 of
those severe warnings,

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tornado warnings, flash
flood warnings. That's the

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fifth most active day in
state history period for us

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issuing warnings. So that
includes, you know, June,

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July, May, like the fifth
most active day happened

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here in the middle of April.
And then yeah, the, the

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flooding, especially the
Wolfe River in New London,

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those are record highs. So
going back to 1922 was the

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previous record. So in any
of our lifetimes, we have

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not seen this type of
flooding across east

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central Wisconsin. And, you
know, I was working with

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someone or talking with
what the emergency managers

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there, and they said that
the Wolfe River is so high.

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There's lots of sturgeon in
the Wolfe River that

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there's actually sturgeon
in people's front yards.

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And so we're going to have
to coordinate with the DNR.

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Once this is all done and
the water starts receding,

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like there's going to be
sturgeon that need to be

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netted out of people's
front yards. Like, you know,

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just unprecedented things
in any of our lifetimes. So

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yeah, just yeah, terrible,
terrible flooding and

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terrible weather here
across Wisconsin. And again,

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just very, very much
looking forward to this

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upcoming week with it
stopping and being dry.

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Finally.
>> With the ground already

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saturated, what kind of
flooding could result from

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Friday's and storms into
this evening?

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>> Right. So, you know,
certainly in east central

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Wisconsin, you know, we're
talking about the Wolfe

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River in particular. You
know, they've had hundreds

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and hundreds of people
evacuating across towns

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such as New London and
Shiocton. So they don't

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need a single Moore drop or
additional drop of rain. So

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the Friday event is the one
positive. If there even if

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there is not really
positive. But the one good

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thing is that it's going to
be a very fast moving

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system. So once it's
through here Friday evening,

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you know, it's probably
going to be through

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Wisconsin eight, 9:00, the
worst of it, you know,

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hopefully then it should be
quiet for at least the next

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five days. So that'll be a
little different this

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moving, whereas the past
couple days has been a lot

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slower moving. But after
that, the the kind of the

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light at the end of the
tunnel is that we're not

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expecting rainfall here
the next five days. So this

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goes through probably until
Thursday of next week. So

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hopefully that'll give us a
time to dry off and really

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start the cleanup and
restoration process across

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Wisconsin.
>> And on the Wolf River.

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Do you know what its
current flood stage is or

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where it's at?
>> Yeah. So it's in major

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flood stage. It New London
and Shiocton. And this is

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record. It's over over 19ft.
Okay, so both of those

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locations have set record
heights. Again, this is

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going back to the 1900s. So
in any of our lifetimes.

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>> Do you know how many
people have been evacuated

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from various locales?
>> As of Thursday, it was

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close to 2000, and I
believe that it is exceeded

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2000 as of Friday morning.
And again, we'll see what

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happens with the Friday
once the Friday evening,

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severe weather and heavy
rain is done, what that

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number turns to on Saturday.
>> For people like you

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monitoring this and putting
out the warnings and seeing

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what's happening and seeing
what's coming, how

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frightening is that?
>> So after the tornado by

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Union Center on Tuesday,
the National Weather

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Service and La Crosse went
out Wednesday morning and

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damaged the damage survey.
And, you know, seeing the

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homes and the damage, you
know, these are our fellow

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Wisconsinites. And, you
know, just seeing, you know,

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some people like they've
lost everything. And so

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it's, it weighs on us a lot
too. And it also helps

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motivate us to really, you
know, this is why we do

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this is to, to try to help
help keep these people safe

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and protected the best that
we can. And then just

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seeing the impacts on the
community, you know, just,

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just reaffirms that what
we're doing is important.

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And we're, we're operating
24 over seven, 365 so, you

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know, whatever we can do to
help people stay safe

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weather wise is what we're
doing around the clock.

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>> Kurt Kotenberg out of
green Bay. Thanks so much.

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>> Thank you for having us.
>> There is a new ten day

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ceasefire between Israel
and Lebanon, and we're into

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week two of a ceasefire
with Iran and new today,

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Iran announces the Strait
of Hormuz is open. The

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temporary détente in the
war with Iran comes in the

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midst of a build up of U.S.
forces having steamed into

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the region. Last week, we
interviewed Democratic U.S.

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Second District
Representative Mark Pocan,

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who called the U.S. Israel
War with Iran. Chaos piled

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on top of chaos. Tonight,
we turn to Republican U.S.

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Senator Ron Johnson. And
Senator, thanks very much

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for being here.
>> Well, Fredricka, thanks

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for having me on.
>> So it seems to be

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welcome news that Iran has
declared the Strait of

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Hormuz open. But what about
Representative Pocan

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comment that this war is
chaos on top of chaos? Are

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you satisfied with the war
planning that went into

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this and the move?
>> Since last weekend? I

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was on one of the Sunday
morning shows and the host

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started the interview by
saying that I was

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supportive of the war in
Iran, and I pushed back

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immediately by saying, no,
I am absolutely opposed to

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the war. The Iranian
ayatollahs declared on

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America 47 years ago. The
fact that they have

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hundreds, probably
thousands of Americans,

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blood on their hands and
obviously tens of thousands

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of their own citizens,
blood on their hands. So

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what I'm supportive of is
ending that war once and

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for all, ending the threat,
ending the menace, and

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ending the there any
possibility that they could

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obtain a nuclear weapon
weapon which could be

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existential to America. So
yeah, it is war. Messy. Is

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it chaotic? Sure. You know,
I don't like war, but we

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had to act before we
weren't able to act before

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they became a nuclear power,
before they had so many

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missiles and so many drones
that taking this action

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would have devastated the
region. It's been

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destructive enough. But
again, so I support

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President Trump's very
difficult decision. This is

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good news. I think, you
know, we have dramatically

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degraded Iran's capability
to be a state sponsor of

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terror, to develop a
nuclear weapon, to hold the

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Strait of Hormuz hostage.
And I think this latest

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blockade is certainly
showing. It's proving its

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worth in bringing Iran to
the negotiating table and

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forcing to force them into
what should be as close to,

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you know, unilateral
disarmament and just, you

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know, unconditional
surrender as possible.

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>> And so you think it's a
diplomatic course at this

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point, not a bombing course,
to quote, finish the job,

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as you've said you want to
do.

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>> Yeah. When President
Trump met with the families

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of the fallen at Dover, the
dignified return, he

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reported in his speech that
the family is almost to a

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person said, okay, we've
sacrificed now finish the

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job. And I think it'd be,
you know, not good if we

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left a regime in place,
continue to be dedicated to

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enrich uranium, not give up
those uranium stockpiles,

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continue to build up their
missile and drone

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stockpiles, to continue to
threaten the region and

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threaten world peace. So I
want to finish the job. We

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have obviously decimated
their leadership. We've

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decimated their their
missiles, their drones,

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their nuclear program. But
we haven't finished the job.

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But we need to do that.
>> You took exception last

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week to the president
threatening to wipe out an

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entire civilization in Iran.
It was a newsworthy rebuke

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from a high ranking
Republican. What did you

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think when you saw that
threat?

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>> I guess I wouldn't call
it a rebuke. I was asked a

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question. I gave an honest
answer. We're not at war

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with Iranian people. In
fact, we are trying to do

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everything we can to
support them. We want to

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liberate the Iranian people,
not not impoverish them. So

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again, President Trump has
a certain negotiating style.

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I mean, I, for one, am
hoping and praying it works.

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I mean, Frederica, just
think of how if all these

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things are successful, it
looks like Venezuela is on

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the road to success. If we
can tame Iran, if we can

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remove that regime and get
more responsible leadership

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in there, who are going to
be more interested in

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governing Iran for the
benefit of its people as

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opposed to their ideology
being a state sponsor of

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terror? I mean, just
understand how positively

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that could reset global
politics or the

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geopolitical situation
throughout the world. If

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Cuba could reclaim if
Cubans could reclaim their

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liberty, their freedom. I
mean, these are, you know,

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Iran should be incredibly
successful and prosperous

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nation, as should Venezuela,
as should Cuba. And it's

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only it's only through
American leadership that

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those things can happen.
>> As to not being at war

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00:12:45,766 --> 00:12:50,304
with the Iranian people and
Iranian U.A.W. student that

230
00:12:50,370 --> 00:12:54,241
is now there says it very
much feels to her like the

231
00:12:54,308 --> 00:12:57,611
U.S. is at war with the
people. How do you respond

232
00:12:57,678 --> 00:13:00,581
to that?
>> That's one person's

233
00:13:01,081 --> 00:13:03,951
opinion. Again, we're not
doing polls. I mean,

234
00:13:04,017 --> 00:13:06,119
they've obviously canceled
the internet, so we don't

235
00:13:06,186 --> 00:13:08,689
know exactly what's
happening inside Iran. I

236
00:13:08,755 --> 00:13:11,191
think one of the reasons
the Iranian regime is so

237
00:13:11,258 --> 00:13:14,027
brutal to its people, I
mean, they executed 30 to

238
00:13:14,094 --> 00:13:16,263
40,000 of their own
citizens in a couple of

239
00:13:16,330 --> 00:13:19,499
days. Okay. My guess is a
large majority of Iranians

240
00:13:19,566 --> 00:13:22,769
would like to see the
ayatollahs gone on the

241
00:13:22,836 --> 00:13:25,105
dustbin of history. The
sooner the better. Again, I

242
00:13:25,172 --> 00:13:27,774
don't there are certainly
people within Iran who

243
00:13:27,841 --> 00:13:31,078
support the mullahs and the
ayatollahs, but I just have

244
00:13:31,144 --> 00:13:34,014
to believe when you take a
look at the long history of

245
00:13:34,081 --> 00:13:36,950
Iran, the Persian people
and stuff, I mean, this has

246
00:13:37,017 --> 00:13:39,219
been a prosperous land. The
ayatollahs have just

247
00:13:39,286 --> 00:13:42,523
devastated what could be
incredibly prosperous and

248
00:13:42,589 --> 00:13:45,359
freedom loving type of
country.

249
00:13:45,425 --> 00:13:49,396
>> How, in your mind, can
ordinary Iranian citizens

250
00:13:49,463 --> 00:13:53,567
like that U.A.W. student of
whom we spoke rise up and

251
00:13:53,634 --> 00:13:57,571
take over the regime?
>> Well, it's very

252
00:13:57,638 --> 00:13:59,773
difficult. I pointed this
out in the past. You know,

253
00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,777
for those who just want to
keep pushing nationwide gun

254
00:14:03,844 --> 00:14:06,780
control and those who want
to disarm America, this is

255
00:14:06,847 --> 00:14:09,449
what it looks like when a
population disarmed, when

256
00:14:09,516 --> 00:14:12,653
the only people that have
bullets and rifles and

257
00:14:12,719 --> 00:14:16,323
weapons are our brutal
regime, it leads to tyranny.

258
00:14:16,390 --> 00:14:20,394
And we had some pretty
interesting testimony in

259
00:14:20,460 --> 00:14:24,298
the Senate this this past
week, Congressman Thomas

260
00:14:24,364 --> 00:14:26,767
Massie went through the
list of regime after regime

261
00:14:26,834 --> 00:14:29,970
after regime, brutal
dictatorial regimes leading

262
00:14:30,037 --> 00:14:32,639
to the deaths of millions
of their citizens. The

263
00:14:32,706 --> 00:14:35,075
first action was always
disarming the population.

264
00:14:35,142 --> 00:14:38,745
So it's difficult. I think
we've certainly weakened

265
00:14:38,812 --> 00:14:41,815
the regime. It's as weak as
it's ever been. In his 47

266
00:14:41,882 --> 00:14:44,084
years. We may have to do
some assistance. We may

267
00:14:44,151 --> 00:14:49,223
have to to provide some.
I'll call it, assistance to

268
00:14:49,289 --> 00:14:51,124
the Iranian people so they
can. Finally, on top of

269
00:14:51,191 --> 00:14:54,228
that regime.
>> Senator Ron Johnson, we

270
00:14:54,294 --> 00:14:57,698
leave it there. Thanks very
much for joining us again.

271
00:14:57,764 --> 00:15:01,768
>> Have a good day.
>> A UW-Madison School of

272
00:15:02,402 --> 00:15:06,006
Journalism PhD student is
back home living just

273
00:15:06,073 --> 00:15:09,943
outside Tehran. Each day
brings fear and uncertainty

274
00:15:10,010 --> 00:15:13,814
for Tahereh Rahimi, who
does not support the war,

275
00:15:13,881 --> 00:15:17,084
nor does she support the
regime. She sees her

276
00:15:17,150 --> 00:15:20,787
country and people living
there being destroyed.

277
00:15:20,854 --> 00:15:22,990
Communications are mostly
down in the country, so we

278
00:15:23,056 --> 00:15:26,760
sent her questions to learn
firsthand what it's like

279
00:15:26,827 --> 00:15:31,064
right now. Here's a
sampling of what she said.

280
00:15:33,100 --> 00:15:36,136
>> I used to think that I
am, that I was brave. I

281
00:15:36,203 --> 00:15:41,074
think that's not true
anymore. About about me. I

282
00:15:41,141 --> 00:15:45,946
know that it's totally fine
to be scared, but I think

283
00:15:46,713 --> 00:15:51,385
we're really changes you
depending on what type of

284
00:15:52,085 --> 00:15:56,557
missiles they are using,
you can feel the shake.

285
00:15:57,591 --> 00:16:01,495
That part is the scariest
part. If I want to describe

286
00:16:01,562 --> 00:16:04,731
it to you. You know, in the
spring when the lightning

287
00:16:04,798 --> 00:16:09,269
hits and it sounds like the
sky is being ripped apart,

288
00:16:09,336 --> 00:16:12,506
when you lay down on the
ground, you can feel it

289
00:16:12,573 --> 00:16:17,044
like the same, you know,
ripping apart, feeling

290
00:16:18,345 --> 00:16:22,549
inside there. I remember
one night, the middle of

291
00:16:22,616 --> 00:16:26,854
the war, it was 830 or 9
p.m. and it was raining,

292
00:16:28,121 --> 00:16:31,291
and we heard the sound of
the fighter jets. And it

293
00:16:31,358 --> 00:16:36,296
was not just one, it was a
group of them just passing

294
00:16:36,363 --> 00:16:40,367
over our head. And at the
same time, we could hear

295
00:16:40,434 --> 00:16:45,439
the the explosions and also
the shake. I remember like

296
00:16:48,008 --> 00:16:52,145
I was thinking, why doesn't
finish? Why when, when the

297
00:16:52,212 --> 00:16:57,017
end is gonna come. It is
like constant torture. You.

298
00:16:58,252 --> 00:17:01,588
You are literally just
waiting for something to

299
00:17:01,655 --> 00:17:04,491
happen to you or your loved
ones. You know you are

300
00:17:04,558 --> 00:17:09,429
waiting for the bomb to hit
or the roof comes down or

301
00:17:09,496 --> 00:17:14,067
the windows to shatter.
After the jets pass over.

302
00:17:16,036 --> 00:17:21,008
Obviously you feel happy
that okay, I I'm safe. My

303
00:17:21,074 --> 00:17:25,812
family is safe, I am safe.
But at the same time, you

304
00:17:25,879 --> 00:17:28,315
know that the heat they hit
somewhere else, they killed

305
00:17:28,382 --> 00:17:33,820
other people. You know, you
feel happy at the same time

306
00:17:33,887 --> 00:17:38,559
that you feel guilty. Why
you are happy? The eighth

307
00:17:39,660 --> 00:17:44,231
night of the attack, when
Israel bombed three oil

308
00:17:44,298 --> 00:17:47,501
depots in Tehran and 1 in
Karaj, close to where I

309
00:17:47,568 --> 00:17:52,573
live. Tehran was covered
under Black smoke for hours.

310
00:17:59,513 --> 00:18:04,318
And then it was Black rain
coming down. It was. It was

311
00:18:05,986 --> 00:18:10,457
raining Black. You can just
imagine how this can

312
00:18:12,392 --> 00:18:17,030
influence impact people's
health, especially older

313
00:18:17,097 --> 00:18:21,902
people, and how it's gonna
leave, you know, lasting

314
00:18:22,569 --> 00:18:27,474
damage and people's health
and water and so on. Us and

315
00:18:28,509 --> 00:18:31,845
Israeli have already
destroyed my country. More

316
00:18:31,912 --> 00:18:36,383
than 2000 people are killed.
I don't like just to

317
00:18:37,684 --> 00:18:42,222
mention numbers, but the
numbers are real. These

318
00:18:42,289 --> 00:18:46,193
people are blood and flesh
and they are. They are not

319
00:18:46,260 --> 00:18:49,696
just characters in a
computer game. More than

320
00:18:49,763 --> 00:18:54,101
2000 people are killed.
Over 26,000 people are

321
00:18:55,602 --> 00:18:59,139
wounded. They are literally
changing my country to

322
00:18:59,206 --> 00:19:04,011
another Gaza where people
are deeply suffering. If

323
00:19:05,312 --> 00:19:10,117
they. They have not gone
already dead already. What

324
00:19:12,586 --> 00:19:15,622
do you think about how this
war is being covered in the

325
00:19:15,689 --> 00:19:19,927
media? As you know, the
internet is still down

326
00:19:20,761 --> 00:19:24,765
after almost 50 days.
Netanyahu was the one

327
00:19:26,934 --> 00:19:31,572
dragged us in this war, but
I didn't see a lot of

328
00:19:31,638 --> 00:19:36,310
coverage. The part that the
the Israeli has done is

329
00:19:37,344 --> 00:19:42,082
sort of whitewashed or
softened in the news media,

330
00:19:42,149 --> 00:19:46,787
and people just don't talk
about this. It might be the

331
00:19:46,854 --> 00:19:51,658
result of what I saw in how
they were represented in,

332
00:19:53,260 --> 00:19:55,662
in domestic news media. But
it was very disappointing

333
00:19:55,729 --> 00:19:58,932
that like, what they were
talking was just about the

334
00:19:58,999 --> 00:20:03,570
oil price. Oh, the Brant
oil is like now it's $0.50

335
00:20:06,306 --> 00:20:10,978
higher than yesterday. As
if like it was the war was

336
00:20:12,312 --> 00:20:16,049
reduced to just the oil
price, you know, deleting

337
00:20:16,116 --> 00:20:20,787
the human side of the war.
So my biggest fear is that

338
00:20:21,688 --> 00:20:25,259
they don't like Iranian
government. And the US

339
00:20:25,325 --> 00:20:28,896
don't come to an agreement.
My biggest fear is that

340
00:20:28,962 --> 00:20:33,200
that like somehow the
ceasefire ends and they

341
00:20:34,768 --> 00:20:39,773
resume the war. So it means
all this nightmare is gonna

342
00:20:41,475 --> 00:20:46,146
happen again. I hope that
this war ends forever and

343
00:20:47,447 --> 00:20:51,351
never happen again.
>> The latest hearing

344
00:20:52,219 --> 00:20:55,322
challenging the Enbridge
Line five oil and gas

345
00:20:55,389 --> 00:20:57,891
pipeline in northern
Wisconsin unfolded late

346
00:20:57,958 --> 00:21:01,628
this week. The bad River
Band of Lake Superior,

347
00:21:01,695 --> 00:21:04,698
Chippewa and environmental
groups want state permits

348
00:21:04,765 --> 00:21:08,802
already approved to be
reversed and to halt any

349
00:21:08,869 --> 00:21:11,705
pipeline construction. The
circuit court judge in the

350
00:21:11,772 --> 00:21:14,842
case isn't expected to rule
until the end of this month

351
00:21:14,908 --> 00:21:17,644
at the earliest, even
though line five

352
00:21:17,711 --> 00:21:20,581
construction is being
rerouted around the

353
00:21:20,647 --> 00:21:23,650
reservation, the band
worries about damage to

354
00:21:23,717 --> 00:21:26,987
Upstream and Lake Superior
water. For more on this, we

355
00:21:27,054 --> 00:21:30,324
turn to Band River Band
Chairwoman Elizabeth

356
00:21:30,390 --> 00:21:33,193
Arbuckle. And thanks very
much for being here.

357
00:21:33,260 --> 00:21:35,329
>> Thanks for having me.
>> So fundamentally, I've

358
00:21:35,395 --> 00:21:39,533
had people ask why the
concerns, if the pipeline

359
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,437
has been rerouted to skirt
reservation lands?

360
00:21:43,504 --> 00:21:46,206
>> There's lots of reasons
to be worried or concerned,

361
00:21:46,273 --> 00:21:49,977
and one of them is when
they do the construction,

362
00:21:50,043 --> 00:21:53,714
they are going to be
stirring up mercury

363
00:21:55,516 --> 00:21:59,953
deposits of from acid rain
from decades past, and

364
00:22:00,020 --> 00:22:02,789
those have settled. So when
they come through to do

365
00:22:02,856 --> 00:22:06,393
that, that's going to stir
up these deposits, which

366
00:22:06,460 --> 00:22:09,229
are then going to go
directly into our waterways.

367
00:22:09,296 --> 00:22:11,665
You know, they are just
hugging our reservation.

368
00:22:11,732 --> 00:22:14,168
It's not like they went
miles and miles away. It's

369
00:22:14,234 --> 00:22:18,639
literally a stone's throw
from from our land

370
00:22:18,705 --> 00:22:21,241
reservation boundaries. And
that is going to stir up

371
00:22:21,308 --> 00:22:24,811
these mercury deposits that
have been in our wetlands

372
00:22:24,878 --> 00:22:27,281
and go into our water and
go into Lake Superior. You

373
00:22:27,347 --> 00:22:30,584
know, we've already got we
already have mercury

374
00:22:30,651 --> 00:22:33,487
deposit warnings and can
only eat one walleye a week

375
00:22:33,554 --> 00:22:38,358
or a month, depending on on
your age and gender. And,

376
00:22:39,860 --> 00:22:43,997
and that's, that's
problematic. So if we get

377
00:22:44,565 --> 00:22:48,135
more mercury, that's going
to affect our fishing

378
00:22:48,202 --> 00:22:50,270
industry. It's certainly
affecting our Ojibwe

379
00:22:50,337 --> 00:22:52,472
culture because like
walleye, for example, is a

380
00:22:52,539 --> 00:22:55,609
major part of our culture.
So that's what we worry

381
00:22:55,676 --> 00:22:58,045
about the mercury upsets.
We also worry about the

382
00:22:58,111 --> 00:23:00,747
blasting they're going to
do in the reroute, which is

383
00:23:00,814 --> 00:23:04,017
in the mountains, just off
the reservation. That's

384
00:23:04,084 --> 00:23:07,354
another thing that we don't
know what we don't know.

385
00:23:07,421 --> 00:23:10,324
They say, oh, it's safe,
it's fine. The other one is

386
00:23:10,390 --> 00:23:14,127
our treaty rights. And this
is key because the way they

387
00:23:14,194 --> 00:23:17,030
want to do the reroute is
so we'll say this is the

388
00:23:17,097 --> 00:23:19,533
reservation. And they're
going to go like that with

389
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,269
this being Lake Superior.
So on all three sides

390
00:23:22,336 --> 00:23:26,907
they're going to surround
us and encircle us. And

391
00:23:29,409 --> 00:23:31,678
that's problematic because
they're still in our ceded

392
00:23:31,745 --> 00:23:33,747
territory, right? That's
still we still have rights

393
00:23:33,814 --> 00:23:36,750
to hunt, fish and gather in
this land. And we're not

394
00:23:36,817 --> 00:23:39,520
going to be able to cross
into our reservation

395
00:23:39,586 --> 00:23:41,855
without asking their
permission. You know,

396
00:23:41,922 --> 00:23:45,025
that's that's not what we
signed up for. That's not

397
00:23:45,092 --> 00:23:47,628
the spirit of the law.
That's not been the

398
00:23:47,694 --> 00:23:50,464
interpretations in the and
the understanding of our

399
00:23:50,531 --> 00:23:55,202
treaty rights. So cutting
that off, cutting us off

400
00:23:55,836 --> 00:23:59,406
from from our land, from
our own homeland, from

401
00:23:59,473 --> 00:24:03,677
accessing the, the, our
treaty rights that we're

402
00:24:03,744 --> 00:24:07,915
allowed to use, which have
been upheld. That's

403
00:24:07,981 --> 00:24:09,950
problematic.
>> What is your response to

404
00:24:10,017 --> 00:24:12,819
the DNR and Enbridge saying
that environmental issues

405
00:24:12,886 --> 00:24:17,691
have been exhaustively
researched and addressed?

406
00:24:18,258 --> 00:24:22,696
>> I say I don't think so,
right? I mean, everyone

407
00:24:22,763 --> 00:24:24,631
like I said, everyone's
been ignoring this Mercury

408
00:24:24,698 --> 00:24:27,367
problem. And the problem
with the heavy metals that

409
00:24:27,434 --> 00:24:31,138
are going to be released by
the land. So I don't think

410
00:24:31,205 --> 00:24:35,242
they have been exhaustively
researched. And yet there

411
00:24:35,309 --> 00:24:39,446
seems to be no concern
about this sleeping mercury

412
00:24:39,513 --> 00:24:43,317
that we have in the
wetlands area on and near

413
00:24:43,383 --> 00:24:48,088
our reservation.
>> Why the protracted fight?

414
00:24:48,155 --> 00:24:51,625
>> I don't think anybody
wants a protracted fight,

415
00:24:51,692 --> 00:24:55,495
but it's the outcome that's
important, not not the

416
00:24:55,562 --> 00:24:57,931
battle. So we have to
protect our homeland. We

417
00:24:57,998 --> 00:25:01,001
have to protect Lake
Superior. We have to

418
00:25:01,068 --> 00:25:05,005
protect our treaty rights.
And those that you know

419
00:25:05,072 --> 00:25:10,310
that that our fellow other
Ojibwe bands in northern

420
00:25:10,377 --> 00:25:12,246
Wisconsin exercise and hold
with us as well.

421
00:25:12,312 --> 00:25:15,782
>> Do you feel as though
you will prevail?

422
00:25:15,849 --> 00:25:19,720
>> Yes. I have to believe
we will prevail in the end.

423
00:25:19,786 --> 00:25:24,591
We have to. The stakes are
too high, right? I can't, I

424
00:25:25,526 --> 00:25:30,430
can't imagine not. We need
to. We need to preserve

425
00:25:30,497 --> 00:25:33,300
Wisconsin, Northern
Wisconsin, Lake Superior.

426
00:25:33,367 --> 00:25:36,003
And we're on the front
lines for that. And so

427
00:25:36,069 --> 00:25:39,239
we're willing to do that.
It's like I said, it's it's

428
00:25:39,306 --> 00:25:41,742
it's even bigger than our
reservation, right? It's

429
00:25:41,808 --> 00:25:43,944
even bigger than that
because those waterways

430
00:25:44,011 --> 00:25:47,848
lead right to Lake Superior.
So it's really important we

431
00:25:47,915 --> 00:25:51,785
all think and study and,
and look and see what

432
00:25:51,852 --> 00:25:56,089
they're saying and work
toward, you know, stopping

433
00:25:56,156 --> 00:25:58,959
it.
>> All right. Chairwoman

434
00:25:59,026 --> 00:26:00,761
Elizabeth Arbuckle, we
leave it there. Thank you

435
00:26:00,827 --> 00:26:04,064
so much for your time.
>> Thank you. Appreciate

436
00:26:04,131 --> 00:26:07,401
you having me.
>> For more on this and

437
00:26:07,467 --> 00:26:10,204
other issues facing
Wisconsin, visit our

438
00:26:10,270 --> 00:26:13,707
website at PBS Wisconsin.
Org and then click on the

439
00:26:13,774 --> 00:26:16,610
news tab. That's our
program for tonight. I'm

440
00:26:16,677 --> 00:26:20,581
Frederica Freyberg. Have a
good weekend.

441
00:26:43,737 --> 00:26:44,938
>> Funding for "Here& Now"
is provided by the fund for

442
00:26:45,005 --> 00:26:47,975
is provided by the fund for
Journalism and Friends of

443
00:26:48,041 --> 00:26:49,710
PBS Wisconsin.