1
00:00:07,474 --> 00:00:11,211
PBS Wisconsin Original
production.

2
00:00:11,278 --> 00:00:13,747
>> Candidates to be the
next Supreme Court Justice

3
00:00:13,814 --> 00:00:17,284
make their final case to
the voters. And with an

4
00:00:17,351 --> 00:00:20,087
election just days away.
>> That's a big deal.

5
00:00:20,153 --> 00:00:23,590
>> An executive order
raises questions and

6
00:00:23,657 --> 00:00:27,060
lawsuits.
I'm Frederica Freyberg.

7
00:00:27,127 --> 00:00:30,430
Tonight on "Here& Now", the
chair of the Wisconsin

8
00:00:30,497 --> 00:00:33,500
Elections Commission
answers questions about the

9
00:00:33,567 --> 00:00:36,470
executive order from
President Trump. We break

10
00:00:36,537 --> 00:00:39,039
down highlights from the
debate between the Supreme

11
00:00:39,106 --> 00:00:42,376
Court candidates. Plus how
they're convincing voters

12
00:00:42,442 --> 00:00:46,580
to turn out on Tuesday. And
with a crisis of care for

13
00:00:46,647 --> 00:00:49,950
children and seniors, one
model is bringing them all

14
00:00:50,017 --> 00:00:53,921
together. It's "Here& Now"
for April 3rd.

15
00:00:55,289 --> 00:00:58,592
>> Funding for "Here& Now"
is provided by the fund for

16
00:00:58,659 --> 00:01:02,563
Journalism and Friends of
PBS Wisconsin.

17
00:01:09,670 --> 00:01:12,339
>> Just as Wisconsin is
heading to the polls next

18
00:01:12,406 --> 00:01:16,310
Tuesday, calls from
Washington to nationalize

19
00:01:16,376 --> 00:01:18,478
elections. The executive
order President Trump

20
00:01:18,545 --> 00:01:21,448
signed this week would
create a national list of

21
00:01:21,515 --> 00:01:25,886
U.S. citizens eligible to
vote and restrict mail in

22
00:01:25,953 --> 00:01:28,956
ballots. This order is not
in effect for our April 7th

23
00:01:29,022 --> 00:01:31,491
election, and Democrats
have filed a lawsuit over

24
00:01:31,558 --> 00:01:35,362
it. But does it perpetuate
mistrust in the voting

25
00:01:35,429 --> 00:01:38,498
process? We turn to the
chair of the Wisconsin

26
00:01:38,565 --> 00:01:40,434
Elections Commission. And
Jacobs, thanks very much

27
00:01:40,501 --> 00:01:43,670
for being here.
>> Happy to be here.

28
00:01:43,737 --> 00:01:46,173
>> So what is your reaction
to President Trump's

29
00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:50,043
executive order?
>> I think it was at best

30
00:01:51,278 --> 00:01:55,215
unfortunate and at worst
unconstitutional. The

31
00:01:55,282 --> 00:01:58,619
administration of elections
is delegated by the U.S.

32
00:01:58,685 --> 00:02:02,723
Constitution to the states,
and Congress can make laws

33
00:02:02,789 --> 00:02:06,059
regulating elections. And
an executive order is

34
00:02:06,126 --> 00:02:10,030
neither of those things.
>> And so it's your belief

35
00:02:10,097 --> 00:02:12,499
that this would not be in
effect for the November

36
00:02:12,566 --> 00:02:15,469
elections or, in effect,
ever.

37
00:02:16,703 --> 00:02:20,073
>> My suspicion is never in
effect, ever. It's sort of

38
00:02:20,140 --> 00:02:24,144
a back door way to create
time limits and new

39
00:02:26,346 --> 00:02:29,783
administrative hurdles for
voters to go through. Under

40
00:02:29,850 --> 00:02:33,720
the auspices of addressing
essentially what our

41
00:02:33,787 --> 00:02:37,024
conspiracy theories about
absentee balloting.

42
00:02:37,090 --> 00:02:40,994
>> So if it were to go into
effect, what would the

43
00:02:41,061 --> 00:02:44,198
ramifications be? In
Wisconsin?

44
00:02:44,698 --> 00:02:47,768
>> So in Wisconsin, by way
of example, you can request

45
00:02:47,835 --> 00:02:52,573
an absentee ballot five
days before an election and

46
00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,242
you are eligible to vote.
If you've been a resident

47
00:02:55,309 --> 00:02:59,446
of Wisconsin for 28 days.
So a new resident of

48
00:03:00,914 --> 00:03:03,116
Wisconsin could come and
ask for a ballot and have

49
00:03:03,183 --> 00:03:06,920
the right to vote under the
executive order. However,

50
00:03:06,987 --> 00:03:09,590
that name and that address
had to have been submitted

51
00:03:09,656 --> 00:03:14,394
to the US government prior
to 60 days before the

52
00:03:14,461 --> 00:03:17,698
election. So you create
conflicts between the

53
00:03:17,764 --> 00:03:21,969
statutory rights under
state law with this mailing

54
00:03:22,035 --> 00:03:25,305
deadline, and now the
government's going to

55
00:03:25,372 --> 00:03:29,209
control whether they will
even mail your ballot. And

56
00:03:29,276 --> 00:03:33,247
how do you undo that? What
is the remedy if the

57
00:03:33,313 --> 00:03:35,516
government says, oh, you
weren't on the list, so I'm

58
00:03:35,582 --> 00:03:39,319
not going to mail your
ballot? Ha ha. And the

59
00:03:39,386 --> 00:03:41,522
reason they're not mailing
it is maybe because there's

60
00:03:41,588 --> 00:03:45,559
a typo in a list somewhere,
or you moved or what have

61
00:03:45,626 --> 00:03:49,763
you. So it's really just
sort of creating an

62
00:03:49,830 --> 00:03:53,033
unnecessary and unworkable
mess.

63
00:03:53,100 --> 00:03:57,337
>> In, in your mind. Is it
more possible with mail in

64
00:03:57,404 --> 00:04:00,741
ballots to experience voter
fraud?

65
00:04:02,376 --> 00:04:05,479
>> No, the short answer is
no. There's a number of

66
00:04:05,546 --> 00:04:09,183
checks and balances
involved in addressing mail

67
00:04:09,249 --> 00:04:11,852
in ballots. First of all,
you got to be registered.

68
00:04:11,919 --> 00:04:14,555
Being registered in
Wisconsin requires a

69
00:04:14,621 --> 00:04:16,990
driver's license or the
last four digits of your

70
00:04:17,057 --> 00:04:19,993
Social Security number. If
you don't have a license or

71
00:04:20,060 --> 00:04:24,631
ID, it has to go to your
registered voter address.

72
00:04:25,165 --> 00:04:27,568
If you're sending it
somewhere else, we send a

73
00:04:27,634 --> 00:04:30,037
postcard to your registered
voter address saying, hey,

74
00:04:30,103 --> 00:04:34,241
did you order this ballot
to go somewhere else? It

75
00:04:34,308 --> 00:04:37,644
requires a witness with an
address to sign your

76
00:04:37,711 --> 00:04:40,447
absentee ballot envelope
that affirms that they know

77
00:04:40,514 --> 00:04:43,083
you and they saw you
complete this ballot. And

78
00:04:43,150 --> 00:04:47,387
then when it comes in to
the elections, municipal

79
00:04:47,454 --> 00:04:50,657
clerks across the state,
they check it off, check it

80
00:04:50,724 --> 00:04:54,928
in, and that ballot then is
tallied. There's just a lot

81
00:04:54,995 --> 00:04:58,131
of checks and balances
along the way.

82
00:04:58,198 --> 00:05:01,635
>> This executive order
also seems to be trying to

83
00:05:01,702 --> 00:05:05,939
get at the issue of only
U.S. citizens voting,

84
00:05:07,875 --> 00:05:11,678
because that is considered
in in some corners, you

85
00:05:11,745 --> 00:05:15,682
know, rampant with with
fraud. What is your

86
00:05:15,749 --> 00:05:17,584
knowledge of whether that
is happening here in

87
00:05:17,651 --> 00:05:21,121
Wisconsin? Non-Citizens
voting?

88
00:05:21,188 --> 00:05:23,991
>> We actually have some
numbers on that. There are

89
00:05:24,057 --> 00:05:29,129
four documented cases of
non-citizen voting since

90
00:05:29,196 --> 00:05:33,400
2016. During that time, 25
million ballots have been

91
00:05:33,467 --> 00:05:36,436
issued in the state of
Wisconsin. And if you want

92
00:05:36,503 --> 00:05:40,641
to do the math, it's like
0.000000 something

93
00:05:42,176 --> 00:05:46,647
something. Of all ballots
cast, this is quite simply

94
00:05:46,713 --> 00:05:51,051
not a an issue and not a
problem. Non-Citizens,

95
00:05:52,986 --> 00:05:55,222
generally speaking, don't
want to get in trouble with

96
00:05:55,289 --> 00:05:59,226
the US federal government,
and that's why we haven't

97
00:05:59,293 --> 00:06:03,964
seen really hardly any
numbers of non-citizen

98
00:06:04,031 --> 00:06:06,834
voting. And even those
cases where non-citizens

99
00:06:06,900 --> 00:06:11,004
have voted many times, it's
because they receive some

100
00:06:11,071 --> 00:06:14,041
sort of legal status that
they incorrectly believed

101
00:06:14,107 --> 00:06:17,744
entitled them to vote.
>> Is this executive order

102
00:06:17,811 --> 00:06:23,317
separate, though, from the
US? DOJ suing Wisconsin to

103
00:06:23,383 --> 00:06:27,621
turn over redacted voter
registration data?

104
00:06:28,622 --> 00:06:31,792
>> Let me clarify. They're
not asking for redacted

105
00:06:31,859 --> 00:06:34,561
voter data. They're looking
for unredacted voter data.

106
00:06:34,628 --> 00:06:37,931
They're looking for your
complete name, date of

107
00:06:37,998 --> 00:06:40,667
birth, driver's license
number and Social Security

108
00:06:40,734 --> 00:06:44,638
number. That information
under Wisconsin law is

109
00:06:44,705 --> 00:06:47,941
protected. We don't give
that out. And that's a

110
00:06:48,008 --> 00:06:50,777
state law that prohibits
that. And I think we've

111
00:06:50,844 --> 00:06:55,249
also seen recent
disclosures of I believe it

112
00:06:55,315 --> 00:07:00,053
was a DOGE employee who
loaded the entire some sort

113
00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,257
of entire Social Security
database onto a thumb drive

114
00:07:03,323 --> 00:07:06,894
and took it elsewhere.
Wisconsinites want their

115
00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,563
private information
protected. They don't want

116
00:07:09,630 --> 00:07:12,499
it going out to be shared
by the government with

117
00:07:12,566 --> 00:07:15,802
random anti-voting entities
so they can, quote,

118
00:07:15,869 --> 00:07:18,438
investigate non-citizen
voting.

119
00:07:18,505 --> 00:07:21,441
>> All right. Ann Jacobs,
thanks very much.

120
00:07:21,508 --> 00:07:24,745
>> Thank you.
>> President Trump's

121
00:07:25,145 --> 00:07:27,714
executive order for citizen
voting lists and preventing

122
00:07:27,781 --> 00:07:30,050
the Postal Service from
mailing any ballots to

123
00:07:30,117 --> 00:07:33,554
people not on those lists,
was among the topics on

124
00:07:33,620 --> 00:07:37,624
this week's Inside
Wisconsin Politics. The WP

125
00:07:37,691 --> 00:07:40,661
and PBS Wisconsin podcast,
where you can hear the

126
00:07:40,727 --> 00:07:43,430
state's most experienced
political reporters break

127
00:07:43,497 --> 00:07:48,135
down the news. It features
PBS Wisconsin's Zac Schultz,

128
00:07:48,202 --> 00:07:52,206
WP Shawn Johnson Anya van
Wagtendonk and Rich Kremer.

129
00:07:52,272 --> 00:07:55,709
Here they are on the Trump
executive order.

130
00:07:55,776 --> 00:07:58,579
>> So I think what a lot of
people would be rightfully

131
00:07:58,645 --> 00:08:00,948
wondering is, is this going
to happen? Is this

132
00:08:01,014 --> 00:08:04,651
something that is likely to
happen in Wisconsin

133
00:08:04,718 --> 00:08:07,788
specifically?
look at when these kind of

134
00:08:07,855 --> 00:08:10,057
things come out of Trump
White House specifically,

135
00:08:10,123 --> 00:08:12,793
is what is the reaction for
politicians in Wisconsin?

136
00:08:12,860 --> 00:08:15,195
We saw universally all the
Democrats, including

137
00:08:15,262 --> 00:08:18,198
Governor Evers, use a
profanity online to

138
00:08:18,265 --> 00:08:20,834
describe his reaction to
this. And we didn't see

139
00:08:20,901 --> 00:08:23,370
anything from Republicans.
And if this had a prayer or

140
00:08:23,437 --> 00:08:26,673
a chance of actually being
legal or valid in Wisconsin,

141
00:08:26,740 --> 00:08:28,575
there would have been some
of the usual Trump

142
00:08:28,642 --> 00:08:30,444
supporting Republicans that
would have come out and

143
00:08:30,511 --> 00:08:32,513
said, yes, thank you,
President Trump. It's about

144
00:08:32,579 --> 00:08:35,349
time. I didn't see any of
that. Maybe somewhere it

145
00:08:35,415 --> 00:08:37,718
was put out and I missed it.
But the overall reaction

146
00:08:37,784 --> 00:08:40,287
was a lot of crickets from
Republicans. That signals

147
00:08:40,354 --> 00:08:43,891
most election observers
not legal in Wisconsin.

148
00:08:43,957 --> 00:08:46,493
Unenforceable in Wisconsin
would remove the right to

149
00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:49,596
vote for absentee ballots.
We have. You can register

150
00:08:49,663 --> 00:08:52,266
on day of. There's just so
many things that do not

151
00:08:52,332 --> 00:08:54,434
apply to how Wisconsin
elections are run. Barring

152
00:08:54,501 --> 00:08:56,904
the fact that it's not even
legal constitutionally

153
00:08:56,970 --> 00:08:58,605
across the rest of the
country, according to every

154
00:08:58,672 --> 00:09:00,807
election expert that we
ever talked to. I mean,

155
00:09:00,874 --> 00:09:03,477
Shawn, you've covered this
just as long. It's not

156
00:09:03,544 --> 00:09:05,412
possible for the federal
government to dictate how

157
00:09:05,479 --> 00:09:08,549
elections are run. That's
done by the states.

158
00:09:08,615 --> 00:09:11,251
>> A heated Wisconsin
Supreme Court debate

159
00:09:11,318 --> 00:09:13,754
Thursday night between the
two candidates running to

160
00:09:13,820 --> 00:09:17,291
be placed on the high court.
It featured appeals court

161
00:09:17,357 --> 00:09:20,227
judges Maria Lazar, the
conservative, and Chris

162
00:09:20,294 --> 00:09:23,063
Taylor, the Liberal
candidate. They squared off

163
00:09:23,130 --> 00:09:26,266
just days before next
Tuesday's election. For

164
00:09:26,333 --> 00:09:28,635
reaction to the debate,
we're joined by U.A.W. La

165
00:09:28,702 --> 00:09:31,605
Crosse, political science
professor Anthony Chergosky.

166
00:09:31,672 --> 00:09:35,042
And thanks very much for
being here. Thank you. So

167
00:09:35,108 --> 00:09:37,845
does a debate performance
sway people to vote in this

168
00:09:37,911 --> 00:09:40,714
election one way or the
other?

169
00:09:40,781 --> 00:09:43,984
>> I think we're a little
late in the ball game for

170
00:09:44,051 --> 00:09:46,820
that. After all, a number
of people have voted by

171
00:09:46,887 --> 00:09:49,957
mail. They have voted early.
And even if they are

172
00:09:50,023 --> 00:09:52,659
planning to vote on
Election Day, they may well

173
00:09:52,726 --> 00:09:55,762
have already made up their
mind. Still, I think

174
00:09:55,829 --> 00:10:00,067
debates are symbolically
important as a ritual in

175
00:10:00,133 --> 00:10:03,103
democracy. I think it
matters for candidates to

176
00:10:03,170 --> 00:10:06,406
show up face to face in an
unscripted environment and

177
00:10:06,473 --> 00:10:09,843
have to defend their
positions. Sometimes

178
00:10:09,910 --> 00:10:13,146
debates can sway voters,
sometimes not. But either

179
00:10:13,213 --> 00:10:17,150
way, I think debates matter.
>> That said, what do you

180
00:10:17,217 --> 00:10:21,421
think the candidate's
performance in this debate?

181
00:10:21,488 --> 00:10:24,691
>> Well, this was a heated
debate. I thought that the

182
00:10:24,758 --> 00:10:28,495
candidates really sought to
draw contrasts between

183
00:10:28,562 --> 00:10:30,664
themselves and their
opponent, and whether it

184
00:10:30,731 --> 00:10:34,668
was on abortion or the
issue of voting, or just

185
00:10:34,735 --> 00:10:38,272
the general topic of
judicial activism and

186
00:10:38,338 --> 00:10:41,141
judicial philosophy, and
the way that someone's

187
00:10:41,208 --> 00:10:44,144
personal views may or may
not end up influencing

188
00:10:44,211 --> 00:10:48,348
their opinions. This was a
heated debate, with plenty

189
00:10:48,415 --> 00:10:51,985
of contrasts expressed
between the two sides.

190
00:10:52,052 --> 00:10:54,154
>> Speaking of judicial
philosophy, let's take a

191
00:10:54,221 --> 00:10:56,657
listen to one of the
exchanges about that last

192
00:10:56,723 --> 00:10:59,293
night.
>> I do not intend to

193
00:10:59,359 --> 00:11:02,529
follow any mandate or
agenda or to legislate from

194
00:11:02,596 --> 00:11:05,465
the bench. I am going to
actually look what is there.

195
00:11:05,532 --> 00:11:08,168
When people come in front
of my court, they they know

196
00:11:08,235 --> 00:11:11,471
two things. One, I always
treat them with respect.

197
00:11:11,538 --> 00:11:15,108
And number two, they always
have a fair and full

198
00:11:15,175 --> 00:11:18,312
opportunity to be heard.
And I decide the case only

199
00:11:18,378 --> 00:11:22,282
on the law and the facts.
Judge Lazar is the only

200
00:11:22,349 --> 00:11:25,786
person in this race who has
brought an extreme right

201
00:11:25,853 --> 00:11:30,123
wing political agenda to
the bench. She has refused

202
00:11:30,190 --> 00:11:34,995
to follow precedent. She
ruled to release personal

203
00:11:36,396 --> 00:11:40,200
private voting information
to a right wing group that

204
00:11:40,267 --> 00:11:43,403
tried to overturn our
election. Thank goodness

205
00:11:43,470 --> 00:11:46,673
she was reversed by the
state Supreme Court. She

206
00:11:46,740 --> 00:11:50,043
has been reversed
repeatedly because she

207
00:11:50,110 --> 00:11:55,015
refuses to follow the law.
>> So in recent cycles, the

208
00:11:55,782 --> 00:11:58,418
partizan veil has really
been lifted in these races.

209
00:11:58,485 --> 00:12:01,588
How do election experts
like yourself regard that

210
00:12:01,655 --> 00:12:04,791
as good or bad?
>> We're in a really

211
00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,729
strange era in these state
Supreme Court elections

212
00:12:08,795 --> 00:12:12,165
because it's this weird,
murky middle ground right

213
00:12:12,232 --> 00:12:17,004
now where the parties are
deeply involved. The

214
00:12:17,070 --> 00:12:20,007
justices often accept the
support of the political

215
00:12:20,073 --> 00:12:23,243
parties, but they also want
to be clear that they will

216
00:12:23,310 --> 00:12:26,079
have some sense of
independence.

217
00:12:26,146 --> 00:12:28,549
>> So in the next back and
forth that we're going to

218
00:12:28,615 --> 00:12:30,551
listen to, the candidates
were answering to how they

219
00:12:30,617 --> 00:12:33,554
would have voted when, last
summer, the Liberal

220
00:12:33,620 --> 00:12:37,157
majority invalidated the
state's 1849 abortion ban.

221
00:12:37,224 --> 00:12:40,327
Chris Taylor said she would
have voted with that

222
00:12:40,394 --> 00:12:43,597
Liberal majority to
invalidate the ban. Maria

223
00:12:43,664 --> 00:12:47,234
Lazar would not say how she
would have voted.

224
00:12:47,301 --> 00:12:51,271
>> There is no one more
extreme ever to have been

225
00:12:51,338 --> 00:12:54,374
to be a candidate on issues
of reproductive health care

226
00:12:54,441 --> 00:12:57,344
than my opponent. She
called the overturning of

227
00:12:57,411 --> 00:13:01,415
Roe versus Wade very wise,
and you can look it up on

228
00:13:01,481 --> 00:13:03,483
television. She said it
right on television. She

229
00:13:03,550 --> 00:13:05,919
said she was likely to vote
to support. I'm going to

230
00:13:05,986 --> 00:13:08,655
respond. I did not say I
was likely to vote. I did

231
00:13:08,722 --> 00:13:11,758
not respond ever, in that
regard. And what I said

232
00:13:11,825 --> 00:13:13,927
about Dobbs, which is the
decision that overturned

233
00:13:13,994 --> 00:13:17,164
Roe versus Wade, is I said
it was good that it brought

234
00:13:17,231 --> 00:13:20,934
that national ban and put
it back into each

235
00:13:21,001 --> 00:13:24,705
individual state.
>> So, as we've said, the

236
00:13:24,771 --> 00:13:27,774
abortion portion of the
debate was really extremely

237
00:13:27,841 --> 00:13:30,110
heated. But how would
abortion come before the

238
00:13:30,177 --> 00:13:33,313
court again?
>> Well, Maria Lazar

239
00:13:34,448 --> 00:13:37,384
mentioned that after the
Supreme Court overturned

240
00:13:37,451 --> 00:13:40,787
Roe versus Wade, it
significantly empowered

241
00:13:40,854 --> 00:13:43,991
states to make a lot of
judgments about abortion

242
00:13:44,057 --> 00:13:46,460
that they previously would
not have been able to make.

243
00:13:46,527 --> 00:13:50,130
When Roe versus Wade was
the law of the land. So we

244
00:13:50,197 --> 00:13:53,767
might see a future state
legislature here in

245
00:13:53,834 --> 00:13:55,602
Wisconsin, a future state
legislative majority or a

246
00:13:55,669 --> 00:13:58,805
future governor try to take
certain actions on the

247
00:13:58,872 --> 00:14:02,176
issue of abortion. And in
that case, the Supreme

248
00:14:02,242 --> 00:14:05,279
Court could very well enter
the picture in reviewing

249
00:14:05,345 --> 00:14:08,749
actions that the other
branches take on abortion.

250
00:14:08,815 --> 00:14:11,852
>> What are other important
cases that will come before

251
00:14:11,919 --> 00:14:15,088
the court in the next year
or so, and how does the

252
00:14:15,155 --> 00:14:18,091
balance of the court inform
how these are going to be

253
00:14:18,158 --> 00:14:20,727
decided?
>> We may continue to have

254
00:14:20,794 --> 00:14:23,997
divided government in
Wisconsin, divided control

255
00:14:24,064 --> 00:14:26,533
of the executive and
legislative branch, pending

256
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,570
the outcome of the November
midterm elections. And when

257
00:14:29,636 --> 00:14:32,539
you have divided party
control of the legislative

258
00:14:32,606 --> 00:14:35,576
and executive branch, the
courts can really enter the

259
00:14:35,642 --> 00:14:39,513
picture as power players in
sorting out disputes and

260
00:14:39,580 --> 00:14:42,349
sorting out gridlock
between those branches.

261
00:14:42,416 --> 00:14:45,652
Plus the 2020 presidential
election, we know that

262
00:14:45,719 --> 00:14:48,455
Wisconsin is often at the
center of legal battles

263
00:14:48,522 --> 00:14:51,258
surrounding election. And
then if we go out even

264
00:14:51,325 --> 00:14:54,728
further, think
redistricting come 2030,

265
00:14:54,795 --> 00:14:57,464
the census, and then the
redrawing of the maps

266
00:14:57,531 --> 00:15:00,634
shortly thereafter.
>> Great. Well, Anthony

267
00:15:00,701 --> 00:15:04,705
Chergosky, thanks very much.
>> Thank you.

268
00:15:04,771 --> 00:15:07,975
>> We're now just four days
away from the spring

269
00:15:08,041 --> 00:15:10,811
election with justice for
Wisconsin Supreme Court on

270
00:15:10,878 --> 00:15:13,280
the ballot. Liberal
candidate Chris Taylor has

271
00:15:13,347 --> 00:15:16,216
held a commanding
fundraising lead over the

272
00:15:16,283 --> 00:15:18,819
conservative candidate,
Maria Lazar, with most of

273
00:15:18,886 --> 00:15:22,689
that money being poured
into ads on TV and online.

274
00:15:22,756 --> 00:15:25,626
Now, while this election
has held a lower profile

275
00:15:25,692 --> 00:15:28,529
than the last two Supreme
Court elections, as "Here&

276
00:15:28,595 --> 00:15:30,931
Now", senior political
reporter Zac Schultz tells

277
00:15:30,998 --> 00:15:33,934
us on Tuesday, this race
will likely come down to

278
00:15:34,001 --> 00:15:37,437
the get out the vote
efforts of each campaign.

279
00:15:37,504 --> 00:15:40,741
>> It's a Saturday morning
in March, and a crowd of

280
00:15:40,807 --> 00:15:43,577
volunteers is busy filling
out postcards at the GOP

281
00:15:43,644 --> 00:15:46,880
headquarters in Appleton.
>> Address and then sign

282
00:15:46,947 --> 00:15:50,050
your name. Right. A little
something about Lazar or

283
00:15:50,117 --> 00:15:52,686
vote on April 7th. We
really got to get out the

284
00:15:52,753 --> 00:15:55,489
votes.
voters to support Maria

285
00:15:55,556 --> 00:15:59,193
Lazar in the Supreme Court
election. Pam Van Handel is

286
00:15:59,259 --> 00:16:02,296
the chair of the Republican
Party of Outagamie County.

287
00:16:02,362 --> 00:16:04,831
She says handwritten
postcards have a personal

288
00:16:04,898 --> 00:16:07,501
touch and are more likely
to be read than a glossy

289
00:16:07,568 --> 00:16:10,337
campaign flier.
>> So what we're doing is

290
00:16:10,404 --> 00:16:13,140
we're looking for people
that are more likely to go

291
00:16:13,207 --> 00:16:15,175
out and vote in these
smaller elections, because

292
00:16:15,242 --> 00:16:18,212
it is tough to get people
out to vote. So that's our

293
00:16:18,278 --> 00:16:20,581
goal here. So we get a list
from the Republican Party

294
00:16:20,647 --> 00:16:23,350
of Wisconsin, and we tell
them, give us the ones that

295
00:16:23,417 --> 00:16:25,786
are really going to go out
and vote because we really

296
00:16:25,853 --> 00:16:27,855
need them.
April 7th.

297
00:16:30,257 --> 00:16:32,025
Colin Roberts, a member of
the Milwaukee County Dems,

298
00:16:32,092 --> 00:16:35,329
is knocking doors for Chris
Taylor.

299
00:16:35,395 --> 00:16:38,232
>> Oh, okay. Could I ask
who you plan on voting for?

300
00:16:38,298 --> 00:16:40,100
>> The Democratic okay.
>> Yeah, yeah. So yeah.

301
00:16:40,167 --> 00:16:42,002
Chris Taylor.
>> Technically Supreme

302
00:16:42,069 --> 00:16:44,838
Court elections are
nonpartizan and candidates

303
00:16:44,905 --> 00:16:47,374
use labels like
conservative or liberal

304
00:16:47,441 --> 00:16:50,410
instead of Republican or
Democrat. But in reality,

305
00:16:50,477 --> 00:16:53,447
the Democratic and
Republican parties of

306
00:16:53,514 --> 00:16:55,983
Wisconsin each donate
millions of dollars and

307
00:16:56,049 --> 00:16:58,685
coordinate thousands of
volunteers in the get out

308
00:16:58,752 --> 00:17:00,821
the vote effort.
>> I just think going

309
00:17:00,888 --> 00:17:03,257
everywhere is the key and
talking to people.

310
00:17:03,323 --> 00:17:07,094
>> Hello, ma'am, I'm Chris
Taylor, so nice to meet you.

311
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,130
So nice to meet you,
Cornelius. Oh, you have my

312
00:17:10,197 --> 00:17:12,266
vote. Oh.
>> Thank you. The Liberal

313
00:17:12,332 --> 00:17:15,102
candidate has won four out
of the last five Supreme

314
00:17:15,169 --> 00:17:19,840
Court elections, flipping a
court that in 2019 had A52

315
00:17:19,907 --> 00:17:22,843
conservative majority. If
Taylor wins, Liberals will

316
00:17:22,910 --> 00:17:26,880
hold A52 majority.
>> How many of. You are

317
00:17:26,947 --> 00:17:31,185
fired up to protect our
democracy? All right.

318
00:17:32,352 --> 00:17:36,023
>> We are looking at a
court that is now 4 to 3.

319
00:17:36,089 --> 00:17:38,926
When I win, it will stay 4
to 3. We're not changing

320
00:17:38,992 --> 00:17:42,563
its composition, but the
three votes are so very

321
00:17:42,629 --> 00:17:44,264
important.
>> Republicans around the

322
00:17:44,331 --> 00:17:46,667
state have expressed worry
the backlash to Donald

323
00:17:46,733 --> 00:17:49,736
Trump's presidency and
political realignment have

324
00:17:49,803 --> 00:17:52,472
led to this losing streak.
>> I don't know if it's

325
00:17:52,539 --> 00:17:54,808
impacted morale. What I
will say is this I think

326
00:17:54,875 --> 00:17:57,611
that the state of Wisconsin
is looking at these races

327
00:17:57,678 --> 00:18:00,814
and they're asking who's
running and why people are

328
00:18:00,881 --> 00:18:03,584
running and for what reason.
And when I look at this

329
00:18:03,650 --> 00:18:07,321
race, the reason I am
running is because I want

330
00:18:07,387 --> 00:18:10,524
to be someone on that court
who represents the law for

331
00:18:10,591 --> 00:18:13,427
the state of Wisconsin.
>> Taylor wants to make

332
00:18:13,493 --> 00:18:15,462
sure her supporters don't
get complacent with the

333
00:18:15,529 --> 00:18:17,998
winning streak.
>> There's four more state

334
00:18:18,065 --> 00:18:21,401
Supreme Court elections
coming up after mine. No

335
00:18:21,468 --> 00:18:24,571
one should take anything
for granted. This court can

336
00:18:24,638 --> 00:18:29,076
change very quickly, but if
I am able to get elected,

337
00:18:29,142 --> 00:18:32,513
there will be a
pro-democracy majority on

338
00:18:32,579 --> 00:18:35,382
the court until at least
2030.

339
00:18:36,083 --> 00:18:39,086
>> In their wins. Rebecca
Dallet, Jill Karofsky,

340
00:18:39,152 --> 00:18:41,788
Janet Protasiewicz and
Susan Crawford each

341
00:18:41,855 --> 00:18:46,660
received 55% of the vote.
The 1 conservative victory

342
00:18:46,727 --> 00:18:50,731
in this streak was in 2019,
when Bryan Hagedorn won by

343
00:18:50,797 --> 00:18:55,469
less than 6000 votes, half
a percent. That was a low

344
00:18:57,337 --> 00:19:00,207
turnout election, with a
million fewer voters than

345
00:19:00,274 --> 00:19:03,810
last year. Hagedorn was
outspent and written off by

346
00:19:03,877 --> 00:19:07,381
most election observers who
expected to see him lose

347
00:19:07,447 --> 00:19:10,384
easily. It's no surprise
Lazar hopes this election

348
00:19:10,450 --> 00:19:12,753
ends up following the same
pattern.

349
00:19:12,819 --> 00:19:16,356
>> Well, secretly, yes. So
the parallels are there. I

350
00:19:16,423 --> 00:19:18,959
think that through my
entire career, people have

351
00:19:19,026 --> 00:19:21,428
underestimated me. It's
sort of been a theme that

352
00:19:21,495 --> 00:19:25,098
they don't think someone a
little shorter, a little,

353
00:19:25,165 --> 00:19:28,669
little softer spoken can be
as strong as steel. And I

354
00:19:28,735 --> 00:19:31,138
am. And in this race, I
think that's important too.

355
00:19:31,205 --> 00:19:34,007
People think that, you know,
it's written off, it's a

356
00:19:34,074 --> 00:19:37,211
done deal and it's not.
>> Taylor is aware of the

357
00:19:37,277 --> 00:19:41,582
Hagedorn comparisons.
>> I won't rest until April

358
00:19:41,648 --> 00:19:44,918
8th, the day after this
election. I take nothing

359
00:19:44,985 --> 00:19:48,121
for granted. This is going
to be a hard, competitive

360
00:19:48,188 --> 00:19:52,092
race. I will need every
vote that I can get. I need

361
00:19:52,159 --> 00:19:54,261
all the help that I can get
from the people.

362
00:19:54,328 --> 00:19:56,697
>> The state of.
>> Wisconsin this weekend

363
00:19:56,763 --> 00:19:59,233
will feature the final push
for get out the vote

364
00:19:59,299 --> 00:20:00,901
efforts.
>> I really feel like the

365
00:20:00,968 --> 00:20:03,403
people now are really
getting involved at this

366
00:20:03,470 --> 00:20:05,572
level, and we're getting
more signs out. We're

367
00:20:05,639 --> 00:20:07,174
getting we're just really
getting the grassroots

368
00:20:07,241 --> 00:20:09,176
going on.
>> With volunteers knocking

369
00:20:09,243 --> 00:20:11,879
on doors and reminding
their supporters to vote on

370
00:20:11,945 --> 00:20:13,847
Tuesday.
location?

371
00:20:14,248 --> 00:20:16,450
>> Yeah. The pavilion, I
can see it.

372
00:20:16,517 --> 00:20:18,285
>> Reporting from Appleton.
I'm Zac Schultz for here

373
00:20:18,352 --> 00:20:20,687
and.
>> Now in the ongoing

374
00:20:21,855 --> 00:20:24,591
struggle for more care
programs for older adults

375
00:20:24,658 --> 00:20:27,995
as well as young children,
some communities in

376
00:20:28,061 --> 00:20:30,831
Wisconsin are turning to an
approach that combines the

377
00:20:30,898 --> 00:20:34,368
two different age groups
into the same programs. As

378
00:20:34,434 --> 00:20:36,937
Steven Potter reports, the
result has benefits for

379
00:20:37,004 --> 00:20:41,909
both old and young, and the
idea is gaining traction.

380
00:20:42,843 --> 00:20:46,680
>> Hi, how are you today,
Owen? Remember me? Yes you

381
00:20:46,747 --> 00:20:48,448
are.
>> Like elsewhere in the

382
00:20:48,515 --> 00:20:51,118
country, Wisconsin is
facing a crisis of care on

383
00:20:51,185 --> 00:20:55,289
two fronts. First, the need
for child care continues to

384
00:20:55,355 --> 00:20:58,625
outpace availability.
Providers say families of

385
00:20:58,692 --> 00:21:02,396
30,000 children across the
state can't find childcare.

386
00:21:02,462 --> 00:21:04,631
This problem is
particularly bad outside of

387
00:21:04,698 --> 00:21:08,702
larger cities, around 70%
of rural Wisconsin is

388
00:21:08,769 --> 00:21:11,505
classified as a child care
desert.

389
00:21:11,572 --> 00:21:13,207
>> Textbook of a broken
market. It's just not

390
00:21:13,273 --> 00:21:15,742
working.
>> There's also a

391
00:21:15,809 --> 00:21:18,712
significant need for more
care and more social

392
00:21:18,779 --> 00:21:23,083
connection for older adults.
>> Social isolation can

393
00:21:23,150 --> 00:21:26,486
increase someone's risk for
dementia, for heart disease,

394
00:21:26,553 --> 00:21:29,957
diabetes, depression.
>> Already under strain,

395
00:21:30,023 --> 00:21:32,693
the elder care industry in
Wisconsin is bracing for

396
00:21:32,759 --> 00:21:36,296
increased demand as the
number of residents 75

397
00:21:36,363 --> 00:21:39,266
years old or older is
expected to grow by more

398
00:21:39,333 --> 00:21:42,069
than 40% by the end of the
decade.

399
00:21:42,135 --> 00:21:44,571
>> You need some help?
>> Yeah.

400
00:21:44,638 --> 00:21:47,207
>> Given that both the
child care and elder care

401
00:21:47,274 --> 00:21:50,210
industries in Wisconsin are
facing similar struggles,

402
00:21:50,277 --> 00:21:53,180
largely based on employee
shortages, several

403
00:21:53,247 --> 00:21:55,015
communities are bridging
those gaps with something

404
00:21:55,082 --> 00:21:58,218
called intergenerational
care.

405
00:21:58,752 --> 00:22:01,889
>> Intergenerational care.
generations coming together

406
00:22:01,955 --> 00:22:05,559
under one roof. You know,
sometimes it might be in a

407
00:22:05,626 --> 00:22:08,028
more health care based
setting where there's a

408
00:22:08,095 --> 00:22:10,531
nursing home and there's
younger generations, like a

409
00:22:10,597 --> 00:22:13,200
preschool in the same
facility, or it can kind of

410
00:22:13,267 --> 00:22:16,436
be a little bit less formal
and be in community centers.

411
00:22:16,503 --> 00:22:19,339
>> Or Suzanne Morley of the
Wisconsin Institute for

412
00:22:19,406 --> 00:22:22,075
Healthy Aging says
intergenerational care

413
00:22:22,142 --> 00:22:25,612
programs and facilities are
increasing around the state.

414
00:22:25,679 --> 00:22:30,150
>> In the past five six
years, maybe even more and

415
00:22:30,217 --> 00:22:32,719
longer. There's been a lot
of interest in

416
00:22:32,786 --> 00:22:34,855
intergenerational
programing. There's a lot

417
00:22:34,922 --> 00:22:36,924
of research out there
that's been coming out

418
00:22:36,990 --> 00:22:39,726
about the benefits of
intergenerational

419
00:22:39,793 --> 00:22:41,595
programing and the benefits
not only for older adults,

420
00:22:41,662 --> 00:22:44,898
but also for younger
generations.

421
00:22:48,435 --> 00:22:50,470
>> Intergenerational care
activities vary from place

422
00:22:50,537 --> 00:22:53,574
to place. One program may
have older adults visiting

423
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,076
young children for reading
time, and another program

424
00:22:56,143 --> 00:22:58,412
may have high school
students helping seniors

425
00:22:58,478 --> 00:23:01,548
with technology. All of
these programs bring these

426
00:23:01,615 --> 00:23:04,618
groups together for social
connection, play, and

427
00:23:04,685 --> 00:23:06,787
learning.
>> I think there's a lot of

428
00:23:06,854 --> 00:23:09,489
momentum and excitement
around intergenerational

429
00:23:09,556 --> 00:23:11,992
programs.
>> Paula Drew of the

430
00:23:12,059 --> 00:23:14,361
Wisconsin Early Childhood
Association has also

431
00:23:14,428 --> 00:23:16,630
noticed an uptick in
interest in

432
00:23:16,697 --> 00:23:19,933
intergenerational care, and
for good reason.

433
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,469
>> Yeah.
>> I think both our

434
00:23:22,970 --> 00:23:26,540
youngest and our oldest
tend to sort of live in the

435
00:23:26,607 --> 00:23:29,476
moment more than us, sort
of in the middle. Our

436
00:23:29,543 --> 00:23:32,946
seniors have a lot to give
in terms of their skills,

437
00:23:33,013 --> 00:23:37,217
and they can put those
skills to to use with young

438
00:23:37,284 --> 00:23:39,620
children who really are
starving for that one on

439
00:23:39,686 --> 00:23:42,923
one attention. And that
does so much for their

440
00:23:42,990 --> 00:23:45,792
brain development.
>> And the older set also

441
00:23:45,859 --> 00:23:48,328
sees a boost.
>> For older adults.

442
00:23:48,395 --> 00:23:51,231
There's lots of health
benefits. There's research

443
00:23:51,298 --> 00:23:54,835
that shows that can improve
cognition. So helping with

444
00:23:54,902 --> 00:23:57,905
things like staving off
dementia and cognitive

445
00:23:57,971 --> 00:24:01,008
impairment, it can also
increase their

446
00:24:01,074 --> 00:24:03,577
self-confidence and their
self-efficacy if they're

447
00:24:03,644 --> 00:24:06,280
interacting with younger
generations, it can improve

448
00:24:06,346 --> 00:24:08,949
health outcomes. It can
actually lower blood

449
00:24:09,016 --> 00:24:11,885
pressure.
>> There are several

450
00:24:11,952 --> 00:24:14,555
programs across Wisconsin
already, and new ones are

451
00:24:14,621 --> 00:24:17,591
on the way.
>> I think this effort is

452
00:24:17,658 --> 00:24:21,261
really just an extension of
what we already know works,

453
00:24:21,328 --> 00:24:23,664
and we already know has all
these benefits.

454
00:24:23,730 --> 00:24:26,934
>> In Walworth County.
Maddie Sweetman is with the

455
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,635
Groundswell Collective, a
grassroots organization

456
00:24:28,702 --> 00:24:32,339
pushing for combined
daycare and older adult

457
00:24:32,406 --> 00:24:34,608
facility in an empty wing
of a county run nursing

458
00:24:34,675 --> 00:24:37,211
home.
>> We all sort of know what

459
00:24:37,277 --> 00:24:41,315
it feels like to have that
isolation and be sort of

460
00:24:41,381 --> 00:24:44,985
stuck where we are, and I
think rural communities can

461
00:24:45,052 --> 00:24:49,122
suffer extra from that. And
so intergenerational care

462
00:24:49,189 --> 00:24:53,427
like this would bridge some
of those gaps.

463
00:24:53,493 --> 00:24:56,096
>> The small rural
community of Plymouth in

464
00:24:56,163 --> 00:24:58,332
Sheboygan County has seen
these benefits for more

465
00:24:58,398 --> 00:25:01,068
than a decade.
>> It's really about

466
00:25:01,134 --> 00:25:04,137
bringing people together
and creating connections

467
00:25:04,204 --> 00:25:07,241
between people.
>> Meghann Weeden runs

468
00:25:07,307 --> 00:25:09,843
generations, a nonprofit
community center. They're

469
00:25:09,910 --> 00:25:12,913
geared towards seniors that
partners with a daycare

470
00:25:12,980 --> 00:25:16,283
center on site.
>> Creating a community

471
00:25:16,350 --> 00:25:20,854
inside the community where
people can get support and

472
00:25:20,921 --> 00:25:25,092
feel valued and seen and
heard. It gives people a

473
00:25:25,158 --> 00:25:27,694
reason to get out of bed in
the morning.

474
00:25:27,761 --> 00:25:31,431
>> And then you are going
to make a Stein.

475
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,269
>> Doreen Salkowski is a
retired teacher who now

476
00:25:35,335 --> 00:25:38,172
volunteers at Generations
Community Center.

477
00:25:38,238 --> 00:25:41,875
>> I love it, I'm. I feel
like I'm back in the

478
00:25:41,942 --> 00:25:46,113
classroom again. Everybody
benefits. The community

479
00:25:46,180 --> 00:25:49,550
benefits. They're able to
see the young people as

480
00:25:49,616 --> 00:25:52,419
they're growing,
interacting more with the

481
00:25:52,486 --> 00:25:55,956
older people, respecting
them more.

482
00:25:57,024 --> 00:26:00,928
>> Isolation and loneliness
is a nationwide, worldwide

483
00:26:00,994 --> 00:26:05,732
issue. So by creating more
intergenerational locations,

484
00:26:05,799 --> 00:26:09,269
we're breaking down those
barriers and just helping

485
00:26:09,336 --> 00:26:12,673
everybody find those
connections.

486
00:26:13,607 --> 00:26:15,742
>> Reporting from Plymouth.
>> Oh, I like that one.

487
00:26:15,809 --> 00:26:19,279
>> I'm Steven Potter for
"Here& Now".

488
00:26:19,947 --> 00:26:22,416
>> For more on this and
other issues facing

489
00:26:22,482 --> 00:26:25,485
Wisconsin, visit our
website at PBS Wisconsin

490
00:26:25,552 --> 00:26:28,689
Dot and then click on the
news tab. That's our

491
00:26:28,755 --> 00:26:31,325
program for tonight. I'm
Frederica Freyberg. Have a

492
00:26:31,391 --> 00:26:35,195
good weekend.
>> Funding for "Here& Now"

493
00:26:45,706 --> 00:26:48,509
is provided by the fund for
Journalism and Friends of

494
00:26:48,575 --> 00:26:50,244
PBS Wisconsin.