PBS Wisconsin original >> The clerk will call the
roll. heels and remained at
impasse as the federal government shutdown ground
into its 10th day. And in an unexpected turn, the
anticipated favorite Democratic candidate for
governor, Josh Kaul, announced he would not be
running. [MUSIC]
I'm Frederica Freyberg tonight on "Here& Now",
Wisconsin Senator Tammy Baldwin describes the
Democratic perspective on the deadlock in Washington.
An election commissioner explains why he favors
voters proving their citizenship. And our
political panelists, Scot Ross and Bill McCoshen, run
through the landscape of candidates for governor.
It's "Here& Now" for October 10th.
[MUSIC] is provided by the Focus
Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.
>> The federal government shutdown extends into next
week, with the US Senate adjourning until Tuesday
after repeated failed votes to reopen. We're joined now
by Wisconsin Democratic U.S. Senator Tammy Baldwin.
And Senator, thanks very much for being here.
>> Thanks for having me. >> What is your message to
Wisconsinites in the face of what looks like
congressional dysfunction as the shutdown grinds on? noboa
shutdown, and I have voted seven times now to and
lower health care costs for Wisconsinites. And my
constituents have been telling me loudly and
clearly, they are terrified about the premium increases
that they see in the near future. It'll be just a
couple weeks before Wisconsinites get those
dreaded letters in the mail, telling them what their
premiums will be next year, and without an extension of
the Affordable Care Act, premium tax credits, we are
likely to see people's premiums double, triple,
even quadruple in those states that have already
released the premiums for next year. Quadrupling is
not unusual at all, and it is frightening for
Wisconsinites. And there's no reason why we cannot
reopen the government and bring down costs. But my
Republican colleagues and President Trump refused to
sit down and negotiate with us, even though several of
my Republican colleagues very much want to fix this
Affordable Care Act tax credit issue. And I would
lastly say this bill that we, you know, Trump's
signature big ugly bill that we debated last summer
slashes $1 trillion out of Medicaid and other health
care program badgercare in Wisconsin. But it was
predominantly a tax measure. And what that tax measure
did was send tax breaks to big corporations and
multimillionaires. And what it didn't do was extend a
tax break to working Wisconsinites to help them
afford their health care premiums. This is an
emergency. It's imminent, and we need to act now.
>> Why not vote yes on the continuing resolution to
fund the government and then negotiate?
>> Look, there is no promise for a conversation,
a sort of a wink and a nod that, oh, we'll bring that
up later. That is going to help our Wisconsinites who
are going to get these letters in a couple of
weeks. We need to create certainty in and replace
Trump's chaos in the health care arena and other arenas
with a vote to extend those tax credits. Now, listen,
we are seeing people get their premium notices right
now across the country, we have about 5 million
Americans who are estimated to not be able to afford
the premiums next year. If we do not act, we must act
on behalf of tens of thousands of Wisconsinites
and millions of Americans. And it's really critical
that we not just promise some conversation in the
future. That is not sufficient for the people
who've been pleading with me, keep on fighting to
lower costs. >> You say that there's an
easy way out and you've been working on a
bipartisan solution. What is the easy way out and
what kind of traction are you getting on on a
bipartisan solution? >> My idea and I worked
with several colleagues on this, would be to say that
if we don't act on a longer term extension, that the
default position would be that the Affordable Care
Act tax credits are extended by a calendar year.
But putting pressure on Congress to talk about some
reforms in that system, if we want. I think that's
fair game. The other thing we have to get back to is
letting Congress appropriate dollars. That
is the role. It's the role of Congress as a checks and
balance to pass laws and to appropriate dollars for the
federal government. These continuing resolutions are
allowing President Trump to run roughshod. Since he has
been president, he's done layoffs, he's withheld
federal funds, he's canceled grants. He's
basically conducted a government of chaos. And we
need to go back to something that people can
plan based on, which is our Congress doing its job. And
my Republican colleagues have to stop folding to
Trump's threats and stand up and do their jobs as
duly elected members of Congress.
>> I know that the president has been talking
about terminating federal employees, apparently using
the shutdown as a predicate. Senator Johnson told us
last week that when your company goes bankrupt,
unfortunately, he said, people lose their jobs and
they have to go and find employment elsewhere. He
further said he doesn't see why public sector employees
all have to experience in the private sector. What's
your response to that? >> Well, first of all,
President Trump has been firing federal employees
and withholding federal dollars and pulling federal
grants since day one of his presidency. Tens of
thousands of federal employees have lost their
jobs because we've been under a continuing
resolution. And so this is a scare tactic on Trump's
part, but he's been doing it since day one of his
second presidency. And as to layoffs and whatnot in
the private sector and the public sector. Look, we've
gone through planful restructuring, where we've
had reductions in forces before. I held a roundtable
earlier this year with employees at the VA, and
they all recall Clinton era restructuring, where it was
planful, and they realized where they needed to cut
and not. That's not what this administration has
been doing. When Trump ordered 80,000 people to be
fired at the V.A. that wasn't a planful reduction
in force. That was scattershot. It was chaos.
And we owe more to our veterans than something
like that. shutdown, how do you see
this ending? >> I think the answer is so
clear. Let us reopen the government. Let us extend
the Affordable Care Act tax credits, and then let's
pass our our bills and have Congress do its job and
fund the government, not through these continuing
resolutions for a week or two or a month or two, but
through our regular appropriations process.
That's what Congress needs to do.
>> Senator Tammy Baldwin, thanks very much.
>> Thank you for having me. >> There could be a
scramble ahead of 2026 elections in Wisconsin
after a Waukesha County Circuit Court ruling that
directs the Wisconsin Elections Commission to
verify whether people registered to vote are U.S.
citizens. Republican appointed Commissioner Don
Millis is here with reaction. And thanks very
much for being here. >> My pleasure.
>> So the judge's ruling requires election officials
to verify citizenship by matching voter
registrations to state Dot files, with a spring
primary coming up in February. How reasonable is
that timeline? >> Well, I think it's going
to be a challenge if that's the way the order sticks.
We know that there's going to be another hearing on
October 31st, and it's always possible that there
could be modifications. Certainly, the commission
does have a role in making sure that people who are on
the list are eligible to vote. And, you know, we
work with local clerks, 1850 local clerks to make
sure that happens. So we will see what the order
ends up being and we will do our best to comply. At
least that's how I think we should be acting.
>> So you do think it's reasonable to prevent
non-citizens from being on the voter rolls or to
remove them? a role in doing that. A
year ago, there was a concern about a couple of
Department of Transportation types of
licenses that were handed or provided to visa holders
and green card holders. There was a concern that
those identification cards would be used for
registration and and or voting. And so we issued a
directive to all the clerks in the state to be on the
lookout for those to see if someone presents that
indicate that that's a great likelihood that that
person is not a citizen, not impossible. They could
be a citizen. And we provided instructions on
how to deal with that. So we've taken that on that
task before, and I think we'll take it on again. It
just depends on the degree and how widespread we're
required to act. >> As to that issue of
non-citizens holding ID's, state IDs that otherwise
could be used as part of the voter ID law to to vote.
Your commission told us when we did some reporting
on this that there were only three non-citizens
that have been referred for prosecution since 2019, in
that way, is this a solution in search of a
problem, then? >> Well, I don't doubt that
the issue of non-citizens voting is a very minor one.
It doesn't happen very often, but part of our role
is to make sure that there's confidence in the
elections. I know I've told you in the past that, you
know, despite the fact that we have some of the best
technology available, and we can assure that our
elections are fair and the results are valid. But
there are these things come up. And part of our role is
to instill confidence. We have in the past, like last
year when we sent that circular out, we were
concerned that there was a perception that those
widespread use of those IDs, regardless of whether there
was widespread use. It was important that we instill
confidence. Back in 2022, there were a couple of
examples of improper requests for absentee
ballots. Now those were handled properly. Those
ballots were never issued. But because the public
perception we acted and we took steps to make sure
that that if that happened on a widespread basis,
there would be a way of making sure that those
ballots wouldn't be issued or that people, if they
were issued, there'd be a way of remedying that.
Again, just because something in fact doesn't
happen on a widespread basis doesn't mean that
it's not important for us to address the perception,
to instill public confidence in the validity
of our elections. >> As you mentioned, the
Wisconsin Department of Justice has appealed this
Waukesha County Circuit Court ruling. And while
that's under consideration, the Waukesha judge put on
hold his ruling that local clerks cannot register new
voters without proof of citizenship. But how would
citizenship be proved right? >> Well, that I didn't have
a huge problem with much of the decision. That was one
one aspect of the decision. I don't think it's a good
look to tell people you can't register, especially
if we have an opportunity to later verify. I think
that it is it is a challenge because some of
our identifications that we that are provided to
citizens are also provided to non-citizens. So that is
a challenge. I think it is more incumbent on the
authorities, the Department of Transportation, the
Elections Commission, working with local clerks
to try to identify people who might not be citizens
or not citizens and take remedial action.
>> But when when you register to vote, you have
to check a box. Saying that you are a citizen under
penalty of law. Is that not good enough?
>> Then I think that for 99.99% of the registrants,
that is good enough. But there is again a perception
that this could happen. And again, we shouldn't take it
lightly that that doesn't happen. You know, we have
we have examples of double voting. We make referrals
to district attorneys because things like that do
happen. It's not widespread, instill confidence and take
action appropriately. >> All right. We'll leave
it there. Commissioner Don Millis, thanks very much.
>> Thank you. Have a good weekend.
>> Looking ahead to the 2026 midterm elections,
Wisconsin Attorney General Josh Kaul announced this
week he's running for reelection to that office,
not for governor. Where does this put the crowded
race on the Democrats side and the not so crowded
field of Republican candidates? We check in
with our political analyst, Republican Bill McCoshen
and Democrat Scott Rawson. Thanks for being here.
>> Thanks for having us. >> So, Scott, first to you,
would it be fair to say that Josh Kaul would have
been considered the front runner?
>> Oh, absolutely. He's a statewide elected,
statewide elected official who's who's won twice in
tough environments. So yeah, he would have been he would
have been a great candidate. He'll be a great attorney
general candidate again. And I believe that if some
changes are made in terms of the environment, that
he'll win again. But, you know, Democrats have an
embarrassment of riches. really good candidates.
They have some candidates who are still talking and
thinking about it. But, you know, to run against, you
know, what I would argue is the front runner in Tom
Tiffany, who is, you know, basically an extension of
Donald Trump and everything about Donald Trump is
embodied in Tom Tiffany. So but again, it's about the
it's about the environment. And I think Democrats have
to do some things to change that environment.
reaction on the Republicans part to Josh Kaul not
running? think he would have been
the front runner the day he got in. He's running won
statewide twice before. He's got a record. He's got
a base a statewide base. So it's big news for us that
one of the top tier candidates got out of the
way. So that leaves Democrats I think their
bench is a little bit short right now. The top tier is
David Crowley, Milwaukee County Executive Sarah
Rodriguez lieutenant not former Lieutenant
gets in. That would be their top tier. And I feel
pretty good about our chances against that.
>> So this leaves Tom Tiffany, you think, who has
announced his run in in good shape?
question Tom Tiffany is the frontrunner. I mean he's a
sitting congressman. Congressman. All have
districts with 760,000 people. He's got a base and
it's a very red base. Where he's less known is
southeastern Wisconsin. And as I pointed out, the last
time Scott and I were on his show, the deficit for
Tom has always been fundraising. He wasn't very
good at it. He's already raised more than $1 million
in the first two weeks in the race, including 250,000
at a single event last week. So he's going to be our
frontrunner. But I think Josh is going to stay in
the race. Josh is a you know, he's got a couple
advantages. Josh is a younger man. He's 24 years
younger than Tiffany and he's got geography on his
GOP primary come within 100 miles of where Josh lives.
>> I just want to stay with you a minute, Bill, and ask
you your reaction to your former boss, Governor Tommy
Thompson, once again saying he's seriously considering
a run. misunderstood on that. I
love Tommy Thompson. I wouldn't be where I am
without him. I think what he really was saying was,
if these guys don't get out of the blocks, I'll be
available. I'll be in the bullpen warming up, and
that would be next spring. And I don't expect that to
happen, but I love I hope I have half the energy he has
when I get to be 83 years old, and I don't expect him
to be a candidate. >> He'll be ready there to
wish youngster Joe Biden a happy birthday, right? I
think they know that they're born on this
basically on the same day, right? Yeah, but the former
governor is a year older. I mean, I think the great
news about Tom Tiffany being the front runner and
he is the front runner, and I expect that he will be
their nominee. Is that that nationalizes this race
because he is so tied to Trump. And, you know, the
definition of fascism is an authoritarian political
ideology defined by a dictatorial leader,
centralized governor, and suppression of opposition.
That is part and parcel of everything that has
happened in these, you know, what seems like ten years,
but is really nine months of Trump being in office.
They have control of everything. They have
control of the Supreme Court. They have control of
Congress, they have control of the executive. And they
are running the fascist playbook up until and
something on Friday where they were. They were
calling the march planned march, saying no kings as a
terrorist outfit. This is this is not what America is
about. And I would say to my Democratic friends, if
you don't start treating fascism like fascism and
calling it out, you can't expect people to see that
America is in crisis and that we need to step up and
do something about this so that we can stop it,
restore the Constitution, restore our civil liberties,
and stop things like marauding ICE Gestapo,
disappearing kids in the middle of the night.
>> Nobody on the dem side has Tiffany's record. He
was elected to local office, State office, State
Assembly and state Senate and now Congress. So he's
eminently qualified. He is a strong, consistent
conservative. So is Josh Schoemann. I think we have
an embarrassment of riches on our side, and it's going
to play out pretty well. >> Scott, the one candidate
that we've mentioned that has not yet entered the
race on the Democratic side is former Lieutenant
Governor Mandela Barnes. What's your take on his
entry into the race? >> Well, his supporters
tell me that he would be the most experienced, best
campaigner to get in the race if he got in the race
and that he spent since he left office working to
restore democracy, protect democracy and lift the
lives of others. You know, and I think that, you know,
all of the candidates in this race have some claim
to that, whether it's David Crowley or Sarah Rodriguez
or Kelda Roys, you know, they all have that claim
that they have stood up for democratic values. Again,
the question for me is who is going to tell it like it
is and step up to this threat that America faces,
because I don't think we can win the race if we're
defined by the feckless politics of Chuck Schumer
and Hakeem Jeffries. You know, what is going on is
it's unprecedented in American history. And we
have to look at it that way, and we have to treat it
that way because the people want nothing less than to
than to make sure that the Constitution is being
upheld. >> So, I mean, swinging
back to the race, bill, what do you think about how
formidable Barnes might be? >> You got to remember,
2022 was one of the best midterms for Democrats
since Bill Clinton was in the white House in 1998,
and Mandela Barnes lost. This was the first election
statewide election post Dobbs. He's one of the few
statewide Democrats to lose that night. So we're not
afraid of Mandela Barnes being their candidate. And
to you, if you think Thom Tiffany's too conservative,
is he more conservative Mandela Barnes? I don't
think so. that Schumer left Mandela
Barnes high and dry for three and a half weeks
after the primary, where there were no TV ads from
DC coming for Barnes. You know, you know, I don't
want to relitigate that campaign. But if you if you
allow your opponent to if you allow your opponent to
define you, you're in a lot of trouble. And that's what
happened in that race. I think it was, you know,
again, it was a it was a tough loss for sure, but it
was one that's explainable beyond Mandela's.
in Wisconsin that came back from a statewide loss and
won statewide is Bob Kasten in 1980. It's been a long,
long time indeed. >> That's a deep cut. Nice.
both about the government shutdown and which party
you think goes down as being blamed for it, and
whether or not that has any kind of political legs.
>> It will. I mean, next week is payday for a lot of
federal employees, and it needs to get solved. If
Republicans think they're not going to get blamed for
this, ultimately they're in charge. And I understand
the filibuster rule. Frankly, I would do away
with the filibuster if I were John Thune, and I
would pass the C.R. today. I think that's their best
move. And I would be ready with a health care reform
bill in the next two weeks. >> I mean, yeah, I think
Bill's right. You know, the Republicans are in charge
of things and the Republicans own this. But
again, let's see what's you know, again, back to my
point two centralization of government. On Friday, we
started to see illegal firings of union and
nonunion employees in federal government. Those
by Trump Partizans. And again, remember all this. A
part of this is about it's taken the it's taken the
ability of the House to vote to release the Epstein
files. They're one vote short. You know, Johnson
won't appoint you know, won't sit a congressperson
who won a special election so that that deciding vote
will make this happen. So again, it's all about this
is about protecting, dear Leader. It's about
consolidating power. there. Scot Ross Bill
McCoshen, thank you very much.
>> Plans are spinning into motion for a large wind
turbine project, the first of its size to be approved
since 2011 by the State Public Service Commission.
The Badger Hollow Wind Project, with 19 turbines,
will complement the state's largest solar project by
the same name in Iowa County. The PSC at the same
time approved a solar project in Whitewater. This
as the federal government cuts $7.5 billion from
green energy projects in several states recently,
not including Wisconsin. Yet. Against that backdrop,
renewable energy advocates consider the latest
approvals in Wisconsin a major win. We spoke earlier
with Chelsea Chandler from Clean Wisconsin for more.
How big of a win are these PSC approvals for clean
energy in Wisconsin? notable that Badger Hollow
to be approved in over 14 years. That's really
significant. We know that we need a lot more wind
energy, solar energy to meet our energy needs and
to do so in a clean way. Solar and wind are the
cheapest forms of electricity, so it's a
really great win for people's pocketbooks, for
our electricity bills. And these also really represent
huge opportunities for rural communities in terms
of the economics and the money that is flowing into
the host communities, from the farmers who signed
leases to host these, where they get this long term,
stable, high income, which is helping them kind of
weather these ups and downs with tariff wars and
everything like that and commodity crops right now.
And it's a big win for communities too, who get
annual payments for hosting these projects. And so they
can use that money to do things like fix roads or
lower taxes or just whatever. The local leaders
team is the highest and best use. So it's great.
>> So the 19 turbines at the Badger Hollow Wind
Project approved. How much energy does that produce?
>> It's enough to power tens of thousands of
Wisconsin homes. Wind energy is a very efficient
one minute of wind turbine spinning. Can power a
Wisconsin home for an entire day. So we're
generating a huge amounts of energy from those
turbines. solar? Is that a
complimentary kind of mix? >> Very much so.
Increasingly we're seeing projects be proposed along
with storage like batteries. And so that can also help
store when there's a lot of wind or, you know, a really
sunny day store that energy away for some of those
times where we've got less of those resources, they
work well seasonally together as well. So
there's less sun in the winter, although the panels
themselves are very efficient in cold
temperatures, but wind is actually more productive in
the winter too, because the colder air is denser and it
helps generate more electricity. So they really
do pair well together. >> We just did an interview
about the amount of energy new data centers are going
to require. How will this portfolio of clean energy
help boost that capacity? >> You know, any additional
electricity that's coming online is going to be
helpful. But these data centers are really
representing a massive, massive energy demand. It's
kind of hard to wrap our minds around them, frankly.
Clean Wisconsin just did an analysis that showed that
just for a couple of data centers that did report
their energy use, they would use as much energy or
more energy than all of the homes in Wisconsin combined.
So it's really staggering. We're haven't been seeing
renewables powering these data centers yet. What
we're seeing is more gas plants being proposed.
That's what happened when we energies territory. A
couple of gas plants were approved to support the
Microsoft data Center. We're seeing a renewed
interest in nuclear. I will say there's a misalignment
in the timeline of when we have this energy demand
from the data centers and how long it takes to build
those projects. Solar and wind are actually the
fastest. They take maybe 1 or 2 years to build. Gas is
more like five, and nuclear you're looking at a decade
or more. So it's it's a really tough proposition.
But, you know, every every bit counts.
>> Chelsea Chandler clean Wisconsin, thanks very much.
>> Thank you. >> For more on this and
other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our
website at PBS Wisconsin. Org and then click on the
news tab. That's our program for tonight I'm
Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.
[MUSIC] .
>> Funding for "Here& Now" is provided by the Focus
Fund for Journalism and Friends