The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original
production. >> We've issued a statewide
standing medical order that allows pharmacists to
provide the Covid 19 vaccine to those who want
it, without requiring a prescription from a
clinical provider. medical officer issues a
prescription for all Wisconsinites to get their
Covid vaccine. [MUSIC]
guidance as vaccine hesitation spreads.
[MUSIC] I'm Frederica Freyberg
tonight on "Here& Now". The case for and against an oil
pipeline reroute near tribal lands. Fallout from
comments about Charlie Kirk's assassination
continue to ricochet. But college students are still
trying to bridge divides. [MUSIC]
And Republican lawmakers want public employees to
return to office buildings. It's "Here& Now" for
September 19th. [MUSIC]
>> Funding for Here and Now is provided by the Focus
Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.
>> Wisconsin health officials want to make sure
anyone who wants to get an updated Covid 19 vaccine
can. That's why the state's top epidemiologist has
issued a standing medical order after a federal
vaccine panel Friday declined to recommend Covid
19 vaccines for all Americans. The state order
coincides with guidance from the Commissioner of
Insurance, saying health plans should cover the cost.
>> In the past, our nation's medical
associations and our nation's federal health
agencies who review the same data have issued
recommendations that align with one another. Today,
that's not the case. In the past several months,
leaders at federal agencies have made policy decisions
and issued recommendations that aren't supported by or
directly contradict scientific consensus. These
decisions might may result in limited access to the
Covid 19 vaccine, which scientific studies have
continuously showed lower the risk of illness,
hospitalization and death for people who choose to
get them. controversy over the oil
and gas pipeline through northern Wisconsin went
before the public this week during the third of four
contested case hearings across the state. In
Ashland, the bad River Band of Lake Superior Chippewa
presented witnesses in their challenge of the
permits the Wisconsin DNR granted to Canadian
Enbridge Energy Inc. for a 41 mile reroute of the
pipeline. Operational since 1953. Line five, as it's
known, carries 23 million gallons a day from Superior
to Ontario. The tribe had sued to remove the pipeline
from its reservation lands after easements expired.
And in 2020, Enbridge proposed rerouting part of
the line around tribal lands. Late last year, the
DNR granted permits for pipeline construction that
impacts wetlands and waterways, as well as
granting permits to maintain erosion control
and water quality in the midst of construction. That
includes blasting, bedrock and drilling. The tribe and
environmental groups challenged those permits,
resulting in the court ordered public hearings.
Bad River tribal chairman, Robert Blanchard, was the
first to take the stand. And chairman, thanks very
much for being here. >> Thank you for having me.
>> So what did you most want the judge to know
about the impacts of line five and its reroute around
the bad River reservation, but through nearby wetlands
and wetlands, what did you most want the judge to know
about those impacts? >> So reroute is going
within the ceded territories of of of the
the band. And impact is going to be over 100 acres
of wetlands, which, you know, will get disturbed.
30 some acres of that will not be usable again through
horizontal direct drilling, blasting, which is going to,
you know, a lot of it's going to impact our our
water resources. >> Now, I know, I know, the
tribe wanted the pipeline removed from your land. Why
isn't rerouting it around the reservation proper
enough? >> Well, I will do is shift
the risk upstream, exposing more of the environment to
be put at at at risk than than what is now. But, you
know, like I said before, we have ceded territories
hunting and fishing and gathering of of medicines
and other other stuff. So I mean that that's just going
it's just moving the problem upstream. You know,
we're we'll be downstream from that. And if something
were to happen, you know, it's really impact us as
people and our way of life. >> Circling back to
something you spoke to a moment ago during your
testimony, you spoke about the wild rice harvest. Why
is that? And hunting and fishing rights you hold. So
key to your community? >> Well, we've been
harvesting wild rice on in the Sokaogon Streu's for
over 100 years. You know, my grandparents brought us
harvested down there, and they they made rice camps
down there. And, you know, so that that's near and
dear to my heart and a lot of other people also. But.
It identifies us as, as people, you know, that that
we were brought here for a reason. And, and one of the
reasons is that to go where the food grows on the water,
and that was the wild rice, and that is quite dear to
us. And as far as other things, hunting, fishing
and gathering, you know, there's a lot of people
today that that use that resource to provide and put
food on the table for their families. So it's very
important to us. >> Why are the waters and
the land so important to the protection of those
rights? >> Well, we also feel that,
you know, everything out there is sacred. You know,
we we we we use that that those resources. And when
we go and harvest and we go hunting or fishing, we take
only what we need to do for our families. So and we
also believe that, you know, that everything out there
has a spirit. Every living thing out there has a
spirit, you know? And that's what we're
protecting is the spirit of that medicine, the spirit
of that wild rice and the spirit of those waters and
lands to be able for our future generations, to be
able to enjoy that. >> For its part, Enbridge
states that they have learned what they do today
impacts the next seven generations. And it has
that. It has a responsibility to care for
the land. What's your response to that statement
from the CEO of Enbridge? >> Well, I don't think
Enbridge really understands, you know, the they look at
it a lot different than we do. You know. They're
they're there for for different reasons. And
we're there to to protect the land, truly protect the
land and the resources. >> Your Band River Band is
fighting hard over this. What will you do if the
line five project is allowed to proceed in this
way? >> Well, that's a that's
the big question. We are still trying to come up
with some some answers, and we're just going to keep
moving forward and keep fighting.
>> We will be watching. Chairman Robert Blanchard,
thanks very much. >> Thank you very much for
having me. >> Next week, Enbridge and
the DNR will present their cases in the fourth public
hearing on the proposed reroute of line five.
Jennifer Smith is the director of US tribal
engagement for Enbridge. She joins us now. And
thanks very much for being here.
>> Thanks for having me. >> So, as you know, the
legal fight over line five, as it's known, has been
ongoing for years. Why is it worth it to your company
to persist? >> Sure. So the project
that we've proposed is related to our line five
pipeline. Line five is critical for supplying the
energy that our Midwest, Great Lakes regions all
rely on. Millions of us every day are using the end
products that line five is transporting to ten
different refineries. It's providing natural gas
liquids to other companies that will extract the
propane and deliver it to the homes throughout the
region. And so we have a responsibility to make sure
that we can continue to safely deliver that energy
that we're all relying on. And the project we propose
this project almost five years ago, over four years,
and initiated the project permits, because this is in
response to the Band River Band request that we remove
line five from the reservation, which it
currently crosses. >> So your company has an
indigenous reconciliation action plan that includes
acknowledging and historical lack of
inclusion of indigenous people and their well being.
Additionally, the Enbridge CEO states, we have learned
that what we do today impacts the next seven
generations, and we have a responsibility, he says, to
preserve and care for the land. Learn from her
original inhabitants, inhabitants and move
forward together in the spirit of healing,
reconciliation and responsibilities seriously.
So how does that statement square with the pitched
legal fight with the Bad River over line five.
>> In specific to the Indigenous Reconciliation
Action Plan? Our first plan was issued in 2022 that we
call it the Irap identified 22 tangible commitments and
actions that we can take as a company to try and work
with tribal communities. And since that time, you
know, there have been a number of successes to that
in terms of, you know, making sure that our tribal
contractors, tribal community members are able
to work with Enbridge and economically participate in
what is it that we do? I will point out that, you
know, it was the band that sued Enbridge back in 2019
regarding line five crossing the reservation.
And so even with, you know, we are full steam ahead on
this project, we fully expect to see the permits
get reaffirmed. But at the same time, we we want to
work with the Band River Band and tribal community
to we'd rather work together.
>> How do you respond to the concerns from those
challenging the permit that a pipeline spill could
impact the tribal communities very way of
life? That depends on clean water and wetlands for food
sources? >> First of all, I'll say
we all depend on clean water as humans, and so we
all have a vested interest in safety and environmental
protection. You know, we are operating these
pipelines. There are hundreds of thousands of
miles of pipelines across the US that operate every
day quietly, safely. We don't hear about them. And
and so, you know, Enbridge for one, has invested
billions of dollars over the years into the
integrity of our systems. We are monitoring these
pipelines 365 days a year, 24 hours a day, seven days
a week. We are continuously running tools and doing
checks to make sure that we know the integrity of our
pipeline. We know that it's safe.
>> So what happens if this reroute is rejected?
>> The DNR did an environmental impact
statement, which was done over four plus years, and
it concluded that those impacts will be minimal,
temporary and localized, just like with most, if not
any, you know, all construction projects. And
so we fully believe that when we get through the
contested case process, the permits will be affirmed
and we'll be able to start construction, and we're
ready to do that as soon as we get all the approvals
required. Enbridge, thanks very much.
>> Thanks for having me. >> This update to our
tribal college report last week, the Department of
Education announced a $108 million increase in funding
for tribal colleges and universities before the
2025 fiscal year ends this month. Lac Courte Oreilles
Ojibwe University and the College of Menominee Nation
will now receive a boost in funding that the
administration says is a one time investment. Tribal
institutions are also funded by the Department of
Interior, which has proposed cuts to tribal
higher education programs
conservative influencerng
Charlie Kirk. Dozens of people across the country
have lost their jobs over social media comments they
made in reaction. In Eau Claire, Republican
Congressman Derrick Van Orden threatened to pull
federal funding going to the city over comments to
council members made online saying they celebrated
Kirk's death. The council members reject that
accusation. Political discourse, especially
online and in social media, even before Kirk's
assassination, has been beyond toxic. But how to
agree to disagree and talk about it? BridgeEauClaire
is a chapter of bridge USA, which brings college
students of different persuasions together to
discuss polarizing topics. U.A.W. Eau Claire,
political science professor Adam Kuntz is the group's
faculty advisor. >> Thanks for having me.
>> So do you suppose that your next session you will
be discussing Charlie Kirk? >> I believe the students
actually already have. They've had their first
session, and they have discussed openly about what
their views are on the on the event. And I believe
the students are going to have an ongoing
probably throughout the year.
>> What kinds of other topics has BridgeEauClaire
engaged on? >> So BridgeEauClaire is
basically what I would describe as the anti debate
club. The goal of the club is basically to be a
conversation club. It's less about winning an
argument, it's more about trying to discuss and
understand one another in terms of our perspectives
on politics, culture, religious backgrounds,
etcetera. And so the topics can be far reaching. It can
be anything from is a hot dog a sandwich all the way
up to should the United States disassociate from
Israel. So those, those kinds of topics can be rife
with lots of different opinions. And the goal
behind any bridge meeting is basically to bring
people from all different perspectives into a room,
feel empowered to be able to share your opinions and
to try to understand one another. The goal is not to
convince. The goal is not to win. The goal is to
basically try to get students listening to one
another, understanding in a very sincere and genuine
way, and then going away and kind of processing that
for your own beliefs. >> So what are the ground
rules? What are the mechanics of these
discussions? How do you start.
>> Yeah, so that's been a learning experience. This
took off a couple years ago when we decided after an
event that was run by the center for Constitutional
Studies, which is what I'm affiliated with on campus,
that we wanted to found a club like this. This is
less about free speech, which is certainly a right
that every American citizen has. This is more about how
do I exercise my free speech and responsible ways,
and to allow other people to express those free
speech rights. And so the ground rules are very much,
first of all, guided by the national organization. It's
there's there's a whole handbook that the students
go through to kind of figure out how they would
bring up a topic. There's moderating time. There is a
club president, there are people that are in charge
for picking the topics themselves. But then within
the local organizations, there's a lot of
adaptability and Eau Claire students are very polite
students. They've got, you know, Wisconsin nice. And
so I think that they they add this extra layer of
kind of wanting to build a community despite political
to admire the Gen Z students because I think
they are looking for ways to build that kind of
social connection in a world that's mostly driven
by algorithms. have you found students to
engage in actual civil discussion with this
generation, possibly craving real connections?
>> Yeah, I think so. I've I've watched I've been
teaching for about ten years in different
capacities, and I've watched as the Gen Z
population has started to mature. And it's
interesting. We're about three years away from
having our first gen Alpha student in college, which
makes me feel so old. But the Gen Z students are
absolutely looking for ways to connect. But there's
this feeling among them that they don't really know
how to connect. There's this kind of catch 22. They
want a social situation. They want to find a
community, but they're so used to being targeted or
trolled online, they're scared to be able to
express their opinions. And so clubs like bridge are a
great way for them to learn. You know, those social
skills in a real way, and to do so in a closed
environment where they going to get piled on or
misunderstood, or have something screenshotted and
taken out of context. >> Circling back to Charlie
Kirk in the aftermath of his assassination, do you
sense a chilling effect on freedom of expression with
people across the country right now?
>> I think that there is a huge divide right now over
the terms of free speech. I think that for many
Americans, if you ask them on Pew Research questions,
for instance, it's it's over a 90% threshold that
Americans cherish the value of free speech. I think the
challenge that we always have, though, is what does
that mean when it's the other person expressing it?
Everybody wants free speech for themselves. Query as to
to allow free speech for others. There are, of
course, categories of speech that are not
protected. We know what those are incitement,
obscenity, etc. but for the most part, our First
Amendment protects us. It gives us the chance to be
able to express ourselves, and especially on
university campuses. That means both Republican as
well as Democratic students. And so I think that
universities have a real opportunity right now to
show that, you know, in a pluralist society where
people come with multiple beliefs, the university can
be a place where people express themselves and do
so in ways that are not going to be silencing to
them, to them. I wish that we could replicate that in
the rest of the public sphere. I wish that we
could help other Americans after college or in other
areas of life, recognize that that is really the
lifeblood of what we're doing in our American
democracy. >> Indeed. Professor Adam,
thanks very much. >> Thank you for having me.
>> The list of candidates to be the next governor
continues to grow. Since Democrat Tony Evers
announced he would not seek a third term this week, two
more Democratic challengers entered their names into
the primary race for governor. State Senator
Kelda Roys and State Representative Francesca
Hong joined Milwaukee County Executive David
Crowley and Lieutenant Governor Sarah Rodriguez in
other state government news. A political debate is
brewing at the Capitol over whether state employees
remotely or be required to return to the office. Here
and now reporter Steven Potter has details.
>> We want to get the most out of our state workforce,
and this should have been done a long time ago.
>> State Representative Amanda Nedweski is pushing
for big changes to how, or more importantly, where
state employees work. >> The Return to Work bill
simply requires state employees who worked inside
an office building for the state prior to March 1st of
2020 to come back and work in person.
from Pleasant Prairie has several reasons why she
thinks state employees should be working in state
office buildings instead of at home.
>> It's been five years since this temporary
solution to the Covid response was instituted.
to evaluate productivity outside of the office. So
it just sort of was we're all going to go home and
work remotely, and no one ever has to come back. It's
become sort of a permanent solution to what was a
temporary problem. Assembly debated and
ultimately passed Nedweski bill, with all Republicans
voting for it and all Democrats voting against it.
>> As amended. It requires most state employees to be
in the office at least 80% of the work month, roughly
four days a week, allowing for some flexibility.
>> Nedweski says she wrote the Return to Work bill to
rein in a state government remote work system that
lacks proper oversight of its employees.
>> People are very concerned about efficiency,
fiscal management or mismanagement and fraud.
And I'm you know, this is an accountability issue.
>> And she says her constituents are asking for
this bill. of your taxes. If you know,
if you're a teacher or a nurse, or maybe you're a
small business owner, the system. You want to
know you're getting the most you can out of it. And
that's that's what we're hearing from constituents
>> Representative Mike Beyer, a Democrat from
Verona, says he's hearing very different things from
his constituents. >> And I have not heard
from one single constituent, one single state worker who
thinks this bill is a good idea. We heard over and
over from from the state government, from
secretaries and managers and state government that
they don't need this bill. What they've been doing is
working. effective, which is why
it's still in place so many years after the pandemic
began. suggest that this would be
helpful to state workers, that this would be helpful
to our state government. No evidence to suggest that
this would save any money or make us more efficient.
In fact, it will cost more money and make us more
inefficient. >> To that point of cost,
if this bill becomes law, finding office space for
state employees to return to would be a challenge.
Over the last few years, many state agencies have
realized savings in rent and building maintenance by
shrinking or even eliminating their needs for
physical office space. In fact, the state is
currently emptying and getting ready to sell three
of its largest office buildings in downtown
Madison. bill at the time I
introduced it was something like 200 to $400 million to
bring employees back because they've closed
buildings without evaluating telework
performance. >> Representative Beyer
allowed many state employees to move away from
the state's larger cities, a benefit they appreciate.
>> They've moved out into the state, across the state,
out into assembly districts that aren't as close to
Madison as mine is. So that means that those workers
will have to come back, and that has a tremendous cost
to it in the hundreds of millions of dollars.
>> Both lawmakers note that cybersecurity issues for
remote working state employees is a concern that
needs to be addressed. Beyer and Nedweski also
agree that ending or limiting remote work for
state employees will have a significant effect on
hiring and retention. >> There would be a bleed
of good, talented, skilled people from state
want to see. >> Well, I expect there'd
be some turnover. >> In all. There are about
70,000 employees working for various state agencies
and the universities of Wisconsin system. Estimates
range that from 19 to 75% of those employees work
remotely or have hybrid work schedules, depending
on the agency. Representative Nedweski
mandate that all state employees can work remotely.
Again. you have to come back,
reevaluate, and if you it's determined by your business
unit or by your department that you've been working
work situation, you can reengage in a remote work
agreement. however, says offering
public employees remote or hybrid work options keeps
the state competitive in the job market.
>> I don't think that this is special treatment. I
think this is treatment that's consistent with what
the private market is doing. And and I think that
managers have been holding them accountable for being
who are working for the taxpayers as they're
expected to do. >> While the Republican
majority in the Assembly passed the bill last week,
it must still go to the Senate. And if approved by
the Republican majority there, it will go to the
desk of Democratic Governor Tony Evers, who will almost
certainly veto it. Reporting from the Capitol.
I'm Steven Potter for "Here& Now".
>> For more on this and other issues facing
website at PBS Wisconsin. Org and then click on the
news tab. That's our program for tonight I'm
Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.
>> Funding for "Here& Now" is provided by the Focus
Fund for Journalism and
Friends of PBS Wisconsin.