1
00:00:02,369 --> 00:00:04,972
producers and stores.
>> Dipesh Navsaria, thanks

2
00:00:05,038 --> 00:00:07,174
very much.
>> Thanks for having me.

3
00:00:07,241 --> 00:00:10,377
>> There's more fallout
from federal cuts and

4
00:00:10,444 --> 00:00:14,348
layoffs for Wisconsin, this
time with cuts to the U.S.

5
00:00:14,414 --> 00:00:17,417
Department of Education. In
the midst of the government

6
00:00:17,484 --> 00:00:19,353
shutdown, the Trump
administration laid off

7
00:00:19,419 --> 00:00:23,090
more than 450 employees in
the department, nearly all

8
00:00:23,156 --> 00:00:26,493
of them in the office that
oversees special education

9
00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:30,163
requirements for states.
While a federal judge

10
00:00:30,230 --> 00:00:33,400
temporarily paused the mass
layoffs, deep concerns

11
00:00:33,467 --> 00:00:37,070
remain, including for Beth
Swedeen, executive director

12
00:00:37,137 --> 00:00:39,873
of the Wisconsin Board for
people with Developmental

13
00:00:39,940 --> 00:00:41,975
Disabilities. And thanks a
lot for being here.

14
00:00:42,042 --> 00:00:44,545
>> Thank you.
>> So a federal judge,

15
00:00:44,611 --> 00:00:48,949
midweek, as we just said,
temporarily halted mass

16
00:00:49,016 --> 00:00:52,286
layoffs in federal agencies.
to the consequence relating

17
00:00:52,352 --> 00:00:55,689
to special education in
Wisconsin?

18
00:00:56,523 --> 00:00:59,326
concerned because, as you
know, everybody is off

19
00:00:59,393 --> 00:01:03,664
anyway, with the government
being shut down. And we

20
00:01:03,730 --> 00:01:06,266
just don't know what
those people will come back

21
00:01:06,333 --> 00:01:09,469
in a timely way. And then,
of course, when you don't

22
00:01:09,536 --> 00:01:12,272
know if your job is secure,
we are assuming a lot of

23
00:01:12,339 --> 00:01:15,475
those people might be going
elsewhere anyway. So

24
00:01:15,542 --> 00:01:18,779
there's always a concern
when there's this kind of

25
00:01:18,846 --> 00:01:21,014
threat that you don't
bounce back from it very

26
00:01:21,081 --> 00:01:24,651
quickly.
employees stand, what would

27
00:01:25,385 --> 00:01:28,422
the staff cuts in the
Office of Special Education

28
00:01:28,488 --> 00:01:32,793
and Rehabilitative Services
mean for children here in

29
00:01:32,860 --> 00:01:35,262
the classroom?
>> We think that almost all

30
00:01:35,329 --> 00:01:38,198
of the positions were cut
with the exception of a

31
00:01:38,265 --> 00:01:42,102
handful. So from several
hundred down to, you know,

32
00:01:42,169 --> 00:01:45,439
under ten. So those are the
folks who, when a family

33
00:01:45,506 --> 00:01:49,443
can't get redressed in the
state, or if a school

34
00:01:49,510 --> 00:01:52,312
district has a question
about interpretation of the

35
00:01:52,379 --> 00:01:55,249
law, that's where they went.
And so that means that even

36
00:01:55,315 --> 00:01:58,986
though we have this federal
statute in place, this

37
00:01:59,052 --> 00:02:02,189
federal law that's 50 years
old this year, there's

38
00:02:02,256 --> 00:02:05,259
nothing to enforce it if
those cuts go through.

39
00:02:05,325 --> 00:02:08,295
>> So this law, the
Disabilities Education Act

40
00:02:08,362 --> 00:02:12,633
or Idea, guarantees public
special education services

41
00:02:12,699 --> 00:02:16,970
to nearly 130,000 students
in Wisconsin. What was it

42
00:02:17,037 --> 00:02:19,173
like for students with
disabilities before the

43
00:02:19,239 --> 00:02:22,142
federal law was passed in
1975?

44
00:02:23,143 --> 00:02:26,947
>> Well, those students
weren't students. So before

45
00:02:27,014 --> 00:02:31,151
1975, if you had a
significant disability or

46
00:02:32,486 --> 00:02:34,288
developmental disability,
but like a physical

47
00:02:34,354 --> 00:02:37,491
disability, a school
district did not have to

48
00:02:37,558 --> 00:02:40,227
serve you. So we know
almost all students were

49
00:02:40,294 --> 00:02:43,463
either at home with their
families or unfortunately

50
00:02:43,530 --> 00:02:47,267
in institutions because
medical doctors were saying

51
00:02:47,334 --> 00:02:49,336
there's really nothing, no
future for your child. Why

52
00:02:49,403 --> 00:02:52,773
don't you just go to a
state institution or they

53
00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,476
around 50, 60 years ago,
some families with a little

54
00:02:56,543 --> 00:02:59,346
more vision and kind of a
can do attitude did start

55
00:02:59,413 --> 00:03:02,015
their own schools, often in
church basements, but there

56
00:03:02,082 --> 00:03:04,284
were no protections in
place. And students who

57
00:03:04,351 --> 00:03:07,087
really had so much
potential never saw that

58
00:03:07,154 --> 00:03:09,356
because they couldn't even
enter the door of a school.

59
00:03:09,423 --> 00:03:12,259
>> Because students with
special needs can learn and

60
00:03:12,326 --> 00:03:15,329
can be educated and can
succeed.

61
00:03:16,063 --> 00:03:19,233
as you know, as a
disability community, we

62
00:03:19,299 --> 00:03:21,368
have seen that happen. We
have seen even students

63
00:03:21,435 --> 00:03:24,004
with the most significant
disabilities, with the

64
00:03:24,071 --> 00:03:26,306
right supports, with the
right services, and now

65
00:03:26,373 --> 00:03:29,276
with oftentimes the right
technology, they can be

66
00:03:29,343 --> 00:03:32,179
successful, they can work
in the community, they can

67
00:03:32,246 --> 00:03:35,315
live either
semi-independently or with

68
00:03:35,382 --> 00:03:38,519
some support, living out in
the community. And they can

69
00:03:38,585 --> 00:03:41,288
have very fulfilling lives.
>> So if the US Department

70
00:03:41,355 --> 00:03:45,559
of Education more generally
wants states to take over

71
00:03:45,626 --> 00:03:48,428
these and other services,
what's on the horizon for

72
00:03:48,495 --> 00:03:51,565
special education?
>> Well, the dismantling

73
00:03:51,632 --> 00:03:55,269
came first, and the idea of
sending those dollars and

74
00:03:55,335 --> 00:03:59,239
the responsibility to the
states has yet to

75
00:03:59,306 --> 00:04:02,409
materialize. So we don't
really know what the future

76
00:04:02,476 --> 00:04:05,445
is. Usually when you want
to reform something, you

77
00:04:05,512 --> 00:04:08,448
look at it carefully to see
where the flaws are, and

78
00:04:08,515 --> 00:04:11,218
then you develop a plan and
supports for implementing

79
00:04:11,285 --> 00:04:15,422
the changes. That has not
happened in this situation.

80
00:04:15,489 --> 00:04:19,159
The cuts have come first
and then some lip service

81
00:04:19,226 --> 00:04:22,396
toward maybe states can
take over, but we really

82
00:04:22,462 --> 00:04:24,498
don't know what that looks
like. And as you probably

83
00:04:24,565 --> 00:04:27,401
know, that could take years
to sort of switch that over.

84
00:04:27,467 --> 00:04:30,170
And I think what's
important with idea with

85
00:04:30,237 --> 00:04:33,240
this federal law is it's a
federal law. So the feds

86
00:04:33,307 --> 00:04:36,977
are the ones who need to
enforce the law. States

87
00:04:37,044 --> 00:04:41,181
oftentimes have had issues
where they have not

88
00:04:41,248 --> 00:04:44,284
that's when the feds have
come in and said, no state,

89
00:04:44,351 --> 00:04:46,220
you're not doing it
correctly. We're going to

90
00:04:46,286 --> 00:04:49,122
give you, you know,
guidance on how you need to

91
00:04:49,189 --> 00:04:52,192
change things.
Department of Education cut

92
00:04:52,259 --> 00:04:55,495
would eliminate about $8
million of a grant to

93
00:04:55,562 --> 00:04:58,098
Wisconsin to attract and
retain special education

94
00:04:58,165 --> 00:05:00,334
teachers. What's your
reaction to that?

95
00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,070
>> Well, we've seen several
different cuts. That's one

96
00:05:03,136 --> 00:05:06,640
that you're referring to,
something that really

97
00:05:06,707 --> 00:05:09,343
prepares special education
teachers and encourages

98
00:05:09,409 --> 00:05:12,446
them to go into the field
and stay in the field.

99
00:05:12,513 --> 00:05:14,481
There was also a program
for deaf blind students

100
00:05:14,548 --> 00:05:18,218
that was cut. So we see
this as continuous attacks

101
00:05:18,285 --> 00:05:20,988
on students with
disabilities and the

102
00:05:21,054 --> 00:05:24,458
supports and services they
need to be successful.

103
00:05:24,525 --> 00:05:28,028
>> And so where does this
leave students and families?

104
00:05:28,095 --> 00:05:31,031
>> Well, I was not the
first one to hear about

105
00:05:31,098 --> 00:05:33,400
this. There was a ripple
across the state over the

106
00:05:33,467 --> 00:05:36,503
weekend on social media and
elsewhere from families.

107
00:05:36,570 --> 00:05:39,406
Families were the ones who
heard the news first, and

108
00:05:39,473 --> 00:05:42,409
they're really concerned. I
mean, they're as you

109
00:05:42,476 --> 00:05:46,313
mentioned, we already have
significant problems with

110
00:05:46,380 --> 00:05:49,449
getting enough special
education teachers. There's

111
00:05:49,516 --> 00:05:51,485
a lot of teachers on
emergency licenses right

112
00:05:51,552 --> 00:05:55,289
now, and school districts
are having a hard time with

113
00:05:55,355 --> 00:05:59,092
budgets, providing the full
array of services that

114
00:05:59,159 --> 00:06:03,030
students need and that are
in their plans. So this is

115
00:06:03,096 --> 00:06:05,499
not this is something that
we're really concerned

116
00:06:05,566 --> 00:06:08,101
about moving forward, that
that there will not be any

117
00:06:08,168 --> 00:06:12,172
enforcement and that
enforcement and that