1
00:00:01,368 --> 00:00:04,271
system.
>> Reporting from Madison.

2
00:00:04,338 --> 00:00:07,474
I'm Zach Schultz for "Here&
Now".

3
00:00:07,541 --> 00:00:11,645
>> In western Wisconsin, a
spike in drug overdoses led

4
00:00:11,712 --> 00:00:14,815
the city of La Crosse to
issue a safety alert in

5
00:00:14,882 --> 00:00:18,552
recent days. What's going
on? When overdoses were

6
00:00:18,619 --> 00:00:22,122
trending down, we asked
Doctor Chris Eberlein,

7
00:00:22,189 --> 00:00:25,626
emergency medicine
Health System. And, doctor,

8
00:00:25,692 --> 00:00:28,529
thanks for being here.
>> Yeah. You're welcome.

9
00:00:28,595 --> 00:00:30,998
Thanks for having me.
>> So what are the overdose

10
00:00:31,064 --> 00:00:34,401
numbers that led to this
safety alert?

11
00:00:34,468 --> 00:00:38,605
>> So it's more of a trend.
So we've been watching

12
00:00:38,672 --> 00:00:41,241
overdose numbers really
closely ever since.

13
00:00:41,308 --> 00:00:44,244
Probably early pandemic
time, but only in the last

14
00:00:44,311 --> 00:00:48,048
several years have we
really coordinated with EMS,

15
00:00:48,115 --> 00:00:52,219
both first responders,
including fire transport

16
00:00:52,286 --> 00:00:55,856
agencies, some other
members of the county,

17
00:00:55,923 --> 00:00:59,459
Vivek health, some others
that respond to overdoses,

18
00:00:59,526 --> 00:01:02,596
and starting to pool data
and sharing what we're

19
00:01:02,663 --> 00:01:06,200
seeing in the community. So
we had noticed, and

20
00:01:06,266 --> 00:01:10,037
thankfully so last year we
had great numbers. You know,

21
00:01:10,103 --> 00:01:13,407
we're still way too high,
but it was like a 60%

22
00:01:13,473 --> 00:01:16,543
improvement year over year
and overdose deaths and

23
00:01:16,610 --> 00:01:20,013
responses. So really a
great trend. And we're

24
00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,417
seeing that at the
beginning of this year as

25
00:01:23,483 --> 00:01:28,322
well. And we would still go
on about 1 to 2 overdose

26
00:01:28,388 --> 00:01:32,492
calls a week is what kind
of the trend was.

27
00:01:32,559 --> 00:01:35,295
Throughout most of year we
get small spikes and we and

28
00:01:35,362 --> 00:01:38,332
we meet once a week and we
discuss the data and we

29
00:01:38,398 --> 00:01:42,169
were just watching it. We
had a few that were like 3

30
00:01:42,236 --> 00:01:45,205
or 4 in a week, but didn't
really meet our threshold

31
00:01:45,272 --> 00:01:47,407
to make any sort of
announcement or, or change

32
00:01:47,474 --> 00:01:50,544
our response. And then over
this course of the last

33
00:01:50,611 --> 00:01:55,048
couple of weeks, in late
July, we were getting over

34
00:01:55,115 --> 00:01:59,353
over ten responses in a
week. And so, you know,

35
00:02:00,187 --> 00:02:02,689
you're talking you know,
that's a five fold increase

36
00:02:02,756 --> 00:02:06,293
from what we were used to.
And so that really made us

37
00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,263
take pause. And then it
happened again in the next

38
00:02:09,329 --> 00:02:13,567
week as well. So so this is
why we we figured we'd

39
00:02:13,634 --> 00:02:16,236
better get some word out,
figure out what we could do

40
00:02:16,303 --> 00:02:18,872
as a community to see if
there's anything we're

41
00:02:18,939 --> 00:02:21,375
missing, and hopefully
prevent some people from

42
00:02:21,441 --> 00:02:24,278
having a bad outcome.
>> Because you've said that

43
00:02:24,344 --> 00:02:27,247
you get concerned when
overdose cases begin to

44
00:02:27,314 --> 00:02:30,484
increase in quick
succession like that.

45
00:02:30,551 --> 00:02:33,687
>> Yes.
>> And that's just a marker

46
00:02:34,621 --> 00:02:38,258
for something going on.
>> Yeah. And usually it is

47
00:02:38,325 --> 00:02:42,663
a change in supply change
in use pattern. And so

48
00:02:43,463 --> 00:02:45,732
we're really looking at
trying to figure out what

49
00:02:45,799 --> 00:02:49,736
that is. We did figure out
what this one was. And it

50
00:02:49,803 --> 00:02:52,906
was actually a change in
the supply of not opiates.

51
00:02:52,973 --> 00:02:56,176
Actually what we are seeing
is that fentanyl was

52
00:02:56,243 --> 00:02:59,146
intermixed with other
stimulants, primarily

53
00:02:59,213 --> 00:03:04,184
cocaine and methamphetamine.
So these users had no idea

54
00:03:04,251 --> 00:03:07,454
that they were at risk of
an opioid overdose.

55
00:03:07,521 --> 00:03:10,858
>> So do these synthetic
opioids combined with other

56
00:03:10,924 --> 00:03:14,361
drugs like those of which
you speak, render Narcan

57
00:03:14,428 --> 00:03:18,332
less effective?
>> They would not. Narcan

58
00:03:18,398 --> 00:03:21,168
would still be very
effective for these, and

59
00:03:21,235 --> 00:03:25,873
still a critical component
in in our response.

60
00:03:25,939 --> 00:03:29,409
>> And so is it known where
these drugs are coming from?

61
00:03:29,476 --> 00:03:32,980
Or is this just kind of the
beginning of an

62
00:03:33,046 --> 00:03:36,617
investigation to understand
the scope of this?

63
00:03:36,683 --> 00:03:41,588
>> Yeah. And unfortunately,
we usually at our level

64
00:03:41,655 --> 00:03:44,091
don't don't ever get that
information of where these

65
00:03:44,157 --> 00:03:48,762
are coming from. You know,
that's more of a law

66
00:03:48,829 --> 00:03:50,898
enforcement historically.
You know, being in La

67
00:03:50,964 --> 00:03:54,101
Crosse, we're between two
major metropolitan areas as

68
00:03:54,168 --> 00:03:58,172
far as Chicago and
Minneapolis. And so they

69
00:03:59,306 --> 00:04:01,542
come from one of those two
areas, usually, at least

70
00:04:01,608 --> 00:04:03,610
that's what I've been told
by law enforcement.

71
00:04:03,677 --> 00:04:07,147
>> So what is your message
to people, drug users who

72
00:04:07,214 --> 00:04:12,186
might who might be using
these substances? And then

73
00:04:12,252 --> 00:04:14,922
suddenly there's fentanyl
mixed in. What is your

74
00:04:14,988 --> 00:04:18,458
message?
>> So there's a few things

75
00:04:18,525 --> 00:04:22,863
to be aware of. One, any
illegal drug could have

76
00:04:22,930 --> 00:04:25,165
fentanyl in it. You know,
it's something that is

77
00:04:25,232 --> 00:04:29,703
relatively cheap to produce.
Gets here in large

78
00:04:31,738 --> 00:04:34,208
with other drugs. So I
would assume that any drug

79
00:04:34,274 --> 00:04:38,145
that you use could have
fentanyl in it. Use

80
00:04:38,212 --> 00:04:41,949
fentanyl test strips to
test for fentanyl in the

81
00:04:42,015 --> 00:04:45,652
drugs. Those are legal and
widely available and then

82
00:04:45,719 --> 00:04:47,221
never use alone. Always
have someone there that

83
00:04:47,287 --> 00:04:51,425
could call 911 and
preferably give Narcan as

84
00:04:52,292 --> 00:04:55,362
well as call 911, but you
have to have Narcan

85
00:04:55,429 --> 00:05:00,467
available, test your drugs
and have a sober bystander

86
00:05:00,534 --> 00:05:03,570
nearby that could enact
help if you need it.

87
00:05:03,637 --> 00:05:08,075
>> How hard is it for you
to see this spike and treat

88
00:05:08,141 --> 00:05:11,211
people experiencing it, or
to lose someone to it?

89
00:05:11,278 --> 00:05:13,714
>> I mean, it's always
difficult. You know, this

90
00:05:13,780 --> 00:05:16,350
is something we've been
dealing with for years now.

91
00:05:16,416 --> 00:05:19,419
You know, the country has
lost hundreds of thousands

92
00:05:19,486 --> 00:05:22,089
of people to the opioid
epidemic. I think it's

93
00:05:22,155 --> 00:05:26,827
touched just about every
family at some point over

94
00:05:27,694 --> 00:05:31,665
these last, you know, 15
years or so since it

95
00:05:31,732 --> 00:05:36,503
started, no community has
gone without impact. And so

96
00:05:36,570 --> 00:05:40,274
when you see the spikes
like this, you really want

97
00:05:40,340 --> 00:05:42,876
to try and get, because
sometimes I feel that we

98
00:05:42,943 --> 00:05:45,512
can get a little bit
complacent, especially when

99
00:05:45,579 --> 00:05:48,515
things are going well. And
that was one of my concerns

100
00:05:48,582 --> 00:05:51,318
with this. You know, the
the overdoses have gone

101
00:05:51,385 --> 00:05:55,622
down. I just want to make
sure, as you know, our

102
00:05:56,323 --> 00:05:58,692
whole team wanted to make
sure that everyone was

103
00:05:58,759 --> 00:06:02,663
aware that it is still
dangerous. And ideally, you

104
00:06:02,729 --> 00:06:07,467
know, we could get them to
stop and get help. But this

105
00:06:07,534 --> 00:06:10,370
is the first step. You have
to be alive to be able to

106
00:06:10,437 --> 00:06:14,675
do that. And this is the
do that. And this is the