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thank you for your work.
>> Absolutely. Thank you so

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much for giving us this
platform to talk about our

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response.
>> In other news, 13 county

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jails in Wisconsin now
cooperate with Ice, with

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sheriff's departments
either serving warrants or

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identifying undocumented
them for immigration

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officials. And according to
latest Ice data,

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immigration arrests have
more than doubled in this

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state since January. As of
late June. Ice made 445

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arrests in Wisconsin. For
more on the immigration

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enforcement landscape here,
we turn to Grant Sovern.

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He's a Madison immigration
attorney who helped found

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the Community Immigration
Law Center. And thanks very

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much for being here.
>> Yeah, thanks for your

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interest.
about the immigration

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now?
>> Well, I can say that in

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Wisconsin, we're seeing a
part of what's happening

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across the country, which
is dramatically increased

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efforts to find people, to
detain people and to try

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and talk them out of being
in the United States. There

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are all sorts of coercive
methods, but we have not

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seen widespread raids like
you see in some big cities

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like Los Angeles and
Chicago. But Ice is

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definitely very active in
trying to find people who

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they have any sense
whatsoever might be

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deportable. But the
difference is they just

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have an idea and can allege
that. But we don't actually

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know that someone's
undocumented or deportable

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until they go through
immigration court.

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>> So are most of these
individuals criminals or

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facing criminal charges?
>> That's an easy question.

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No. Most of them are not
criminals. Most of them are

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people who are trying to
figure out the immigration

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system. A lot of people
came in perfectly valid

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status over the past 4 or 5
years, maybe 6 or 700,000

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people in the United States
who followed all the rules.

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And now this administration
has changed the rules or

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ended their programs. So
these majority of people

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are folks who have been
following all the rules all

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along, and it's the
government that's changing.

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>> What kind of catch 22 is
that for people?

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>> It's really difficult
because the government

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seems to believe that the
majority of people come to

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America because of all the
opportunities that are here,

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and we acknowledge it's a
great country. A lot of

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people come here for jobs
and opportunity, but there

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is a really huge percentage
of people who come because

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they can't live where they
are anymore. And

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unfortunately, the approach
that they're taking, the

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government is taking is
that everybody just wants

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to be here and we can talk
them into leaving.

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>> Is there any reprieve
for people who are like in

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the system, in the
immigration system,

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awaiting a hearing? We're
following the prior rules.

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>> If you follow the law,
the answer is yes. People

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who are following the rules,
waiting for their day in

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court, filing everything
the correct way. You are

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waiting to be adjudicated
about whether and how you

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can stay, or whether you
are indeed deportable. The

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federal government right
now is taking everybody and

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accusing them of being
criminals and saying, you

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must leave. So everybody
believes in the public and

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even the immigrants
themselves is that they

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have no hope, whereas we
have a due process system

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that addresses all of these
things, and the government

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wants to circumvent that.
So it costs less and they

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can show more numbers
faster. Despite whether or

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not anyone is actually
deportable.

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>> What's an example of a
case you've handled that

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stands out?
>> Well, I think right now

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I think about a young woman
and her children who came

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to the US because they
couldn't face the the kind

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of persecution that was
going on where they lived,

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and they did not want to
come to the US. They had to

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leave their family. They
had to leave their

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community. And they
government laid out to be

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able to apply for asylum in
the United States. And

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we're seeing lots of people
in this area who have valid

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claims or not, but are
waiting to find out who are

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being deported before they
even find out. The good

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part is, there is still due
process today. And if

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somebody can get a lawyer
and get through the system,

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I think of this young woman
who won asylum in

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immigration court just in
the past few weeks and is

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able to stay. It's still
fearful because, you know,

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she has the color of skin
is deportable or an accent

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that people are going after.
But if you get through the

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system, you can stay and
it's done legally.

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>> Do attorneys like
yourself learn where people

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deported are being sent?
>> That is one of the

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hardest things we're
dealing with right now.

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It's part of the
government's effort to make

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the whole system more
difficult is we represent

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people who are normally
kept in Wisconsin. But when

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ICE learns that they have a
lawyer, they move them or

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they try and move them
without even knowing about

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their lawyers status, so
that family can't find them

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so that they can't make
calls. Generally trying to

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avoid due process because
it slows down their efforts

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to reach the numbers they
want.

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>> Because one thing of
note that we saw was that

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the ICE dashboard doesn't
make recent removal numbers

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public.
>> I think that's partially

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because they don't know
what they're doing right

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now. There is a lot of
disarray where people are

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just trying to get to the
end numbers and skip over

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the due process, so I think
they don't actually know

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who they're looking for or
how many people they've

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immigration issues.
>> What's happening in

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courthouses or in
immigration courts where

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Ice shows up?
>> Well, right now Ice is

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trying to make our
communities less safe

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because people are afraid
to go seek justice where

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public safety actually
happens. Our police, our

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sheriffs are trying to help
with public safety. Ice has

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a mandate to find as many
people as they can, no

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matter their immigration
status, try to arrest and

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detain them and deport them
before they even find out,

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and that that is a problem
in between the two. Even

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though Ice is considered
law enforcement, when we

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look at local law
enforcement who care about

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the community, who live in
our community, who are

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trying to make things safe,
Ice has just one issue and

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that they're interested in,
and it's even making our

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local law enforcement and
justice systems much less

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safe because people are
afraid to take advantage of

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them.
>> Are you finding that

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your client or the people
that you work for are

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afraid to go out to go to?
>> Everybody is afraid

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right now, and this is the
part the government is

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trying to make it so
difficult. There are maybe

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who are not U.S. citizens,
but that goes everywhere

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from people who have a
green card, permanent

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residence status, a work
visa, DACA authorization,

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and unauthorized. How is it
that Ice is figuring out?

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By looking at them walking
down the street, that they

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might be undocumented?
They're using systems like

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racial profiling or the
accent they have. So any of

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those people who have those
issues are worried whether

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or not you're undocumented,
whether or not you have a

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valid immigration status,
and some U.S. citizens who

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are worried about the
current situation because

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the government is
overextending, going beyond

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what the legal requirements
what the legal requirements