1
00:00:01,768 --> 00:00:03,737
>> All right, governor Tony
Evers, thanks for your time

2
00:00:03,804 --> 00:00:06,006
today.
>> Appreciate it.

3
00:00:06,073 --> 00:00:07,941
>> The Wisconsin Supreme
Court has completed its term

4
00:00:08,008 --> 00:00:10,878
by releasing decisions in a
number of high profile

5
00:00:10,944 --> 00:00:14,248
cases, including A43
decision to overturn

6
00:00:14,314 --> 00:00:17,985
Wisconsin's 1849 abortion
ban. The end of the term

7
00:00:18,051 --> 00:00:20,787
also means the end of the
career of chief Justice Ann

8
00:00:20,854 --> 00:00:23,991
Walsh. Bradley, who decided
to retire after 30 years on

9
00:00:24,057 --> 00:00:26,793
the High Court. I sat down
with the Chief justice

10
00:00:26,860 --> 00:00:29,763
recently to discuss her
career and the future of the

11
00:00:29,830 --> 00:00:32,966
court. Madam Chief Justice,
thanks for your time.

12
00:00:33,033 --> 00:00:35,502
>> Pleasure to be here.
Zach.

13
00:00:35,569 --> 00:00:39,873
>> Let's go back to the
start. Can you imagine what

14
00:00:39,940 --> 00:00:44,144
yourself in 1995 would think
of where you are today, all

15
00:00:44,211 --> 00:00:47,481
these years later?
>> Well, it's been a journey

16
00:00:47,548 --> 00:00:52,085
and the journey, of course,
has been traveled by me. But

17
00:00:52,152 --> 00:00:55,889
with surrounded by family
and friends and colleagues.

18
00:00:55,956 --> 00:00:59,393
To answer your question, I
don't think I would have

19
00:00:59,459 --> 00:01:04,364
seen myself as I am today.
30 years ago. That's right.

20
00:01:05,199 --> 00:01:08,335
>> So Shirley Abrahamson was
the first woman appointed to

21
00:01:08,402 --> 00:01:10,804
the Wisconsin Supreme Court.
But you were the first

22
00:01:10,871 --> 00:01:15,142
elected. How far have we
come in that? It's been

23
00:01:15,209 --> 00:01:17,177
mostly women on the court
today, and most people in

24
00:01:17,244 --> 00:01:19,913
the modern era. This think
of it's natural for women to

25
00:01:19,980 --> 00:01:23,183
sit on the bench.
>> Well, it's been we've

26
00:01:23,250 --> 00:01:27,354
come a long ways. You know,
that's a perhaps a worn out

27
00:01:27,421 --> 00:01:31,658
phrase, but it holds some
truth to it. When I got on

28
00:01:31,725 --> 00:01:35,295
the circuit court in
Marathon County, there were

29
00:01:35,362 --> 00:01:40,367
only ten women judges in the
entire state, and I was one

30
00:01:41,201 --> 00:01:46,173
of three north of Madison.
And Milwaukee. When I became

31
00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,443
an attorney and went to
Wausau, I remember that very

32
00:01:49,510 --> 00:01:54,648
first day being welcomed by
my supervisor with this, he

33
00:01:56,250 --> 00:02:00,787
said, I want you to know I
have no problem with a woman

34
00:02:00,854 --> 00:02:05,759
trying to do a man's job. So
it has been a journey from

35
00:02:05,826 --> 00:02:09,863
the first days of being an
attorney and then being a

36
00:02:09,930 --> 00:02:14,601
circuit court judge. And
till now we have six of the

37
00:02:15,936 --> 00:02:20,674
seven members on our court
are serving as women. So

38
00:02:20,741 --> 00:02:25,279
that's a that's a long way.
>> So it was just a couple

39
00:02:25,345 --> 00:02:27,247
of years ago, the night that
Janet Protasiewicz was

40
00:02:27,314 --> 00:02:30,083
elected to be a member of
the court. I happened to

41
00:02:30,150 --> 00:02:32,486
interview you, and I said,
you're up next. Have you

42
00:02:32,553 --> 00:02:35,088
thought about whether you
want to run? And you told

43
00:02:35,155 --> 00:02:37,291
me, I'm going to run and I'm
going to win.

44
00:02:37,357 --> 00:02:39,326
>> Yes.
>> Take us from that moment

45
00:02:39,393 --> 00:02:42,629
to your decision that this
was going to be the end of

46
00:02:42,696 --> 00:02:45,399
your time on the bench.
>> It was a difficult

47
00:02:45,465 --> 00:02:50,604
decision. A decision that
took me many months. I had

48
00:02:50,671 --> 00:02:53,640
engaged services of someone
who was going to be helping

49
00:02:53,707 --> 00:02:58,612
me run the campaign. But
ultimately, as I reflected,

50
00:02:58,679 --> 00:03:02,816
I made lists of as most
people or many people would

51
00:03:02,883 --> 00:03:07,120
do of yes, I want to run or
no, I should not run. And

52
00:03:07,187 --> 00:03:12,459
the it was just time to pass
the torch. I've been on the

53
00:03:12,526 --> 00:03:17,197
court for 30 years, I'm told
I have participated in

54
00:03:19,299 --> 00:03:23,437
28,000 cases. 2400 oral
arguments, 600 or so

55
00:03:25,172 --> 00:03:28,175
opinions. And it was time to
pass the torch to begin a

56
00:03:28,242 --> 00:03:32,746
new chapter of my life. I
don't look at this as

57
00:03:32,813 --> 00:03:35,782
retirement because I have a
number of things I want to

58
00:03:35,849 --> 00:03:38,318
do and accomplish, but it's
a new chapter.

59
00:03:38,385 --> 00:03:41,588
>> When you first ran for
the court, there wasn't

60
00:03:41,655 --> 00:03:45,125
nearly the public attention,
certainly not the money or

61
00:03:45,192 --> 00:03:48,195
even the partisan
involvement. You ran as a

62
00:03:48,262 --> 00:03:50,631
nonpartisan and criticize
accepting endorsements from

63
00:03:50,697 --> 00:03:55,235
from conservative
politicians. How how do you

64
00:03:55,302 --> 00:03:57,905
view the elections that
occur today? Even your

65
00:03:57,971 --> 00:04:00,374
successor had to court the
Democratic Party received

66
00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:04,745
millions in fundraising. And
yet has to try and claim

67
00:04:04,811 --> 00:04:07,414
judicial independence when
she takes the robes. How has

68
00:04:07,481 --> 00:04:10,184
that altered how the
justices see themselves and

69
00:04:10,250 --> 00:04:12,252
how the public sees the
court?

70
00:04:12,319 --> 00:04:16,657
>> In 1995, when I ran that
first race, I had as my

71
00:04:18,425 --> 00:04:22,629
co-chairs, Tony Earl, who
was the former Democratic

72
00:04:22,696 --> 00:04:26,266
governor, and Sue Ann
Thompson, who was the then

73
00:04:26,333 --> 00:04:30,237
first lady. Her husband,
Tommy Thompson, serving as

74
00:04:30,304 --> 00:04:33,640
my co-chairs. I had strong
bipartisan support, and I've

75
00:04:33,707 --> 00:04:37,110
had strong bipartisan
support in all of my

76
00:04:37,177 --> 00:04:42,082
campaigns. But it's harder
to get this is labeled as a

77
00:04:45,185 --> 00:04:47,654
nonpartisan race. It's in
April, right? That's when we

78
00:04:47,721 --> 00:04:51,825
have the nonpartisan
elections. And I am

79
00:04:51,892 --> 00:04:56,730
concerned about the influx
of partisanship in judicial

80
00:04:56,797 --> 00:05:01,034
races. That's of great
concern to me because I

81
00:05:01,568 --> 00:05:05,506
think that it has a couple
of effects. Number one, it

82
00:05:05,572 --> 00:05:09,843
has an effect on the public
trust and confidence in an

83
00:05:09,910 --> 00:05:14,915
independent judiciary. And
being independent not only

84
00:05:14,982 --> 00:05:19,887
in substance but also in
impression is important for

85
00:05:21,421 --> 00:05:24,124
the public trust and
confidence of the people. So

86
00:05:24,191 --> 00:05:28,629
I think the influx of
political parties and the

87
00:05:28,695 --> 00:05:32,065
great amount of money is of
concern.

88
00:05:32,132 --> 00:05:35,169
>> The legal landscape
surrounding the court has

89
00:05:35,235 --> 00:05:38,305
changed as well. The amount
of groups that exist only to

90
00:05:38,372 --> 00:05:41,608
file lawsuits with the best
hand-picked cases and

91
00:05:41,675 --> 00:05:45,145
plaintiffs involved in order
to find a crack in precedent

92
00:05:45,212 --> 00:05:48,382
to overturn something. How
how does that change how you

93
00:05:48,448 --> 00:05:51,118
react from the bench when
you know that this was, you

94
00:05:51,185 --> 00:05:54,354
know, hand-selected just in
order to try and reach the

95
00:05:54,421 --> 00:05:57,424
opposite conclusion?
>> Your question brings to

96
00:05:57,491 --> 00:06:01,728
mind something my husband
once said to me, because I

97
00:06:01,795 --> 00:06:06,033
mentioned, you know, being
involved in 28,000 cases and

98
00:06:06,099 --> 00:06:09,503
all the oral arguments. He
said, well, hasn't it all

99
00:06:09,570 --> 00:06:12,739
been decided already? You
know, there are so many

100
00:06:12,806 --> 00:06:17,277
cases, but the answer is no.
I get thrilled by the

101
00:06:19,313 --> 00:06:23,717
presence of good arguments
and good attorneys because

102
00:06:23,784 --> 00:06:28,422
they really help the court
develop the law. And when

103
00:06:28,488 --> 00:06:32,893
new arguments are brought
up, then we take a look at

104
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:37,631
the issue in the way it's
framed, citing different

105
00:06:38,198 --> 00:06:41,168
cases and different issues.
>> Do you support change in

106
00:06:41,235 --> 00:06:45,239
the Constitution to
eliminate elections or alter

107
00:06:45,305 --> 00:06:48,509
elections, or you talked
about what other states do?

108
00:06:48,575 --> 00:06:52,479
There's a lot of options out
there. Do you have a

109
00:06:52,546 --> 00:06:55,549
proposal that you would
any proposal that I support,

110
00:06:55,616 --> 00:06:59,987
but I do support looking at
all sorts of different

111
00:07:00,053 --> 00:07:03,724
options. As I know, groups
and legislators are doing

112
00:07:03,790 --> 00:07:08,128
right now because we have a
challenge before us. And the

113
00:07:08,195 --> 00:07:12,799
challenge is to make the
selection of justices and

114
00:07:12,866 --> 00:07:17,304
the campaigns. If we
continue with campaigns,

115
00:07:17,371 --> 00:07:20,707
better not for the sake of
making a campaign better,

116
00:07:20,774 --> 00:07:25,345
but for the sake of the 5.8
million people who call

117
00:07:26,380 --> 00:07:31,151
Wisconsin home, they deserve
a judiciary, that they have

118
00:07:31,218 --> 00:07:34,521
trust and confidence in.
>> How might that have

119
00:07:34,588 --> 00:07:38,091
changed you becoming a
member of the Supreme Court?

120
00:07:38,158 --> 00:07:42,029
Because back in 1995, you
may not have been either

121
00:07:42,095 --> 00:07:44,898
selected to become on a list
or appointed to this

122
00:07:44,965 --> 00:07:48,535
process. You had to push
your way onto it.

123
00:07:48,602 --> 00:07:53,507
>> That's right. And about
three weeks ago, I was on an

124
00:07:54,241 --> 00:07:58,579
international webinar
regarding election of

125
00:07:59,112 --> 00:08:02,816
justices around the world.
Now, there are not many

126
00:08:02,883 --> 00:08:06,820
countries that elect their
state supreme court

127
00:08:06,887 --> 00:08:10,891
justices, or however they
divide, whether it's a

128
00:08:10,958 --> 00:08:15,762
province or an area. United
States is one of the few.

129
00:08:16,363 --> 00:08:21,268
And I made the comment then
to this webinar attendees

130
00:08:22,135 --> 00:08:27,074
that I probably wouldn't be
on the Supreme Court if it

131
00:08:27,140 --> 00:08:31,945
were not through election. I
was not one of the favored

132
00:08:32,012 --> 00:08:35,916
people. I mean, I didn't
have inside track

133
00:08:36,483 --> 00:08:41,121
information or path, right?
It was good old fashioned

134
00:08:41,188 --> 00:08:45,893
retail campaigning around
the state. And I won. So I

135
00:08:45,959 --> 00:08:50,464
am not quick to say, let's
get rid of elections. Not at

136
00:08:50,531 --> 00:08:54,535
all. I am quick to say,
let's see how they can

137
00:08:55,602 --> 00:09:00,174
become better. And if we
can't make them what they

138
00:09:02,009 --> 00:09:06,146
should be, then let's look
at other options.