1 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,409 >> The following program is a PBS Wisconsin Original 2 00:00:09,476 --> 00:00:13,280 Production. >> Snowfall breaks records 3 00:00:14,248 --> 00:00:18,685 across Wisconsin as political gridlock breaks, 4 00:00:18,752 --> 00:00:22,456 with passage of bipartisan bills in the final regular 5 00:00:22,523 --> 00:00:25,092 session of the state Senate. [MUSIC] 6 00:00:25,158 --> 00:00:28,762 I'm Frederica Freyberg tonight on "Here& Now", 7 00:00:28,829 --> 00:00:32,833 price shocks for fuel and fertilizer have Wisconsin 8 00:00:32,900 --> 00:00:36,069 farmers planning ahead. We hear from state Supreme 9 00:00:36,136 --> 00:00:39,506 Court candidates on the issue of abortion. And 10 00:00:39,573 --> 00:00:42,476 primary candidates for governor also offer their 11 00:00:42,543 --> 00:00:44,912 positions. State public defenders 12 00:00:44,978 --> 00:00:48,115 sound the alarm on staff shortages. And we take a 13 00:00:48,182 --> 00:00:51,885 look at our new podcast, Inside Wisconsin Politics. 14 00:00:51,952 --> 00:00:53,620 [MUSIC] 20th. 15 00:00:56,557 --> 00:00:59,059 >> Funding for Here and Now is provided by the Focus 16 00:00:59,126 --> 00:01:03,797 Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin. 17 00:01:11,371 --> 00:01:14,675 >> Fuel and Fertilizer. The cost of them has spiked due 18 00:01:14,741 --> 00:01:18,278 to the war in Iran that has disrupted crude oil fields 19 00:01:18,345 --> 00:01:21,915 and transport, as well as the export of fertilizer on 20 00:01:21,982 --> 00:01:24,518 farms. In Wisconsin, growers consider their 21 00:01:24,585 --> 00:01:28,422 crops and spring planting in the face of this price 22 00:01:28,488 --> 00:01:31,758 volatility. Wisconsin Farmers Union President 23 00:01:31,825 --> 00:01:33,794 Darin Von Ruden is here with more. He joins us from 24 00:01:33,861 --> 00:01:36,563 Westby. And thanks a lot for being here. 25 00:01:36,630 --> 00:01:38,332 >> Thanks for having me this morning. 26 00:01:38,398 --> 00:01:40,534 >> So what are your farmer members saying about the 27 00:01:40,601 --> 00:01:43,937 price shocks happening right now? 28 00:01:44,004 --> 00:01:46,874 >> Well, lots of concerns. You know, some of our 29 00:01:46,940 --> 00:01:50,878 members actually were able to book their inputs last 30 00:01:50,944 --> 00:01:53,347 fall, so probably aren't going to see that sticker 31 00:01:53,413 --> 00:01:56,984 shock this spring. Like we are amongst other members 32 00:01:57,050 --> 00:02:00,754 that don't have the ability to because of cash flow 33 00:02:00,821 --> 00:02:04,892 problems by that. So they're right now probably 34 00:02:04,958 --> 00:02:08,462 examining, do we stay with corn and need to put more 35 00:02:08,529 --> 00:02:11,398 nitrogen on the ground, or should we look at a, you 36 00:02:11,465 --> 00:02:15,602 know, small grain crop or do we plant more soybeans 37 00:02:15,669 --> 00:02:18,071 just because of that price of fertilizers has 38 00:02:18,138 --> 00:02:21,742 increased so much in the last two weeks here. 39 00:02:21,808 --> 00:02:24,178 >> What are the ways the increased cost of fuel 40 00:02:24,244 --> 00:02:28,649 impact producers? >> Well, in really in all 41 00:02:28,715 --> 00:02:32,152 aspects, number one, it costs more to get the, the 42 00:02:32,219 --> 00:02:35,489 items that we need to produce the crops to the 43 00:02:35,556 --> 00:02:39,893 farm. There are surcharges that are co-ops in process 44 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:44,331 or our delivery folks will be charging. It's going to 45 00:02:44,398 --> 00:02:47,301 cost more to put the crop in the ground. If. Unless 46 00:02:47,367 --> 00:02:52,172 you were able to book that fuel earlier, which doesn't 47 00:02:52,239 --> 00:02:55,642 happen very often. And then just to get the products 48 00:02:55,709 --> 00:02:59,246 that we produce to the consumer through the 49 00:02:59,313 --> 00:03:01,982 processors and distributors, we're probably going to be 50 00:03:02,049 --> 00:03:06,053 seeing surcharges on those deliveries to. 51 00:03:07,087 --> 00:03:09,189 >> Now. The Trump administration just waved a 52 00:03:09,256 --> 00:03:12,159 100 year old shipping law to speed up oil and 53 00:03:12,226 --> 00:03:14,528 fertilizer shipments ahead of spring planting. How 54 00:03:14,595 --> 00:03:18,031 welcome is that? >> Well, you know, if it 55 00:03:18,098 --> 00:03:21,268 helps in that price of what the cost is to get by that 56 00:03:21,335 --> 00:03:24,505 gallon of diesel or that gallon of gas, you know, it 57 00:03:24,571 --> 00:03:28,041 certainly is welcome news, but I'm hearing that it's 58 00:03:28,108 --> 00:03:31,278 it probably will have very little impact on it because, 59 00:03:31,345 --> 00:03:34,448 you know, planting season is probably two weeks away 60 00:03:34,515 --> 00:03:37,718 in southern Wisconsin here right now. So can that 61 00:03:37,784 --> 00:03:40,621 really impact what's going to happen on day one when 62 00:03:40,687 --> 00:03:43,490 farmers need to be in the fields? Big question mark 63 00:03:43,557 --> 00:03:45,392 there. >> Yeah for sure. So how 64 00:03:45,459 --> 00:03:49,763 how difficult is it to move from corn to soybeans or 65 00:03:49,830 --> 00:03:53,600 other crops? Just kind of on a dime here. 66 00:03:53,667 --> 00:03:57,471 >> The biggest thing is, is the availability of the 67 00:03:57,538 --> 00:04:00,407 seeds. So, you know, farmers generally try to 68 00:04:00,474 --> 00:04:03,477 have that contracted earlier delivery. You know, 69 00:04:03,544 --> 00:04:06,380 at this time of year, those seeds are being delivered 70 00:04:06,446 --> 00:04:10,217 to the farm. So if your supplier has adequate 71 00:04:10,284 --> 00:04:14,388 supplies of both, you're in good shape. But some years 72 00:04:14,454 --> 00:04:17,624 they'll the people that we buy from are trying to 73 00:04:17,691 --> 00:04:20,761 guess what farmers are going to do. And so could 74 00:04:20,827 --> 00:04:24,298 be shorted one or the other. And small grains is another 75 00:04:24,364 --> 00:04:26,733 issue because a lot of suppliers don't necessarily 76 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,337 have large quantities of that seed available. So it 77 00:04:30,404 --> 00:04:33,140 might take 2 to 3 weeks to get that to come in from 78 00:04:33,207 --> 00:04:36,076 another source. >> So even ahead of the war 79 00:04:36,143 --> 00:04:39,146 in Iran, how have Wisconsin farmers weathered tariffs 80 00:04:39,213 --> 00:04:43,617 and resulting markets? >> Yeah, certainly, you 81 00:04:43,684 --> 00:04:46,753 know, last year was not a good year for farmers on 82 00:04:46,820 --> 00:04:50,858 the on the economic side, a lot of farmers posted 83 00:04:50,924 --> 00:04:54,695 losses in corn and soybeans, especially because of that 84 00:04:54,761 --> 00:04:56,597 disruption in the marketplace and not having 85 00:04:56,663 --> 00:05:00,434 those overseas buyers to buy that. You know, we have 86 00:05:00,501 --> 00:05:04,137 weather, a little bit of that with the increased 87 00:05:04,204 --> 00:05:07,040 prices that we've seen. After President Trump 88 00:05:07,107 --> 00:05:09,643 announced some of the trade deals with China, but we 89 00:05:09,710 --> 00:05:12,312 still haven't seen all of those markets come back to 90 00:05:12,379 --> 00:05:16,583 the level that they were two, three years ago. 91 00:05:16,650 --> 00:05:19,586 >> How meaningful have one time payments out of 92 00:05:19,653 --> 00:05:22,923 Washington to offset tariff losses been for farmers in 93 00:05:22,990 --> 00:05:26,026 Wisconsin? >> Well, you know, it 94 00:05:26,093 --> 00:05:29,429 certainly has helped ease some of the pain between 95 00:05:29,496 --> 00:05:32,599 the banker and the farmer because they were able to 96 00:05:32,666 --> 00:05:36,236 pay maybe a bigger portion of the the operating loan 97 00:05:36,303 --> 00:05:39,439 that they had. But in reality, when you look at 98 00:05:39,506 --> 00:05:43,544 the the real numbers, it was only about 15% of what 99 00:05:43,610 --> 00:05:47,381 farmers needed to pay for their production costs. So, 100 00:05:47,447 --> 00:05:50,651 you know, in the end, we're still quite a bit behind on 101 00:05:50,717 --> 00:05:54,655 that process. And, you know, farmers generally want to 102 00:05:54,721 --> 00:05:57,724 receive our income from the marketplace and not depend 103 00:05:57,791 --> 00:06:01,628 on Uncle Sam to send us a check when we're in dire 104 00:06:01,695 --> 00:06:05,165 needs. And so with the trade war that we had, you 105 00:06:05,232 --> 00:06:08,502 know, those market conditions were really 106 00:06:08,569 --> 00:06:12,139 impacted in a negative way. And it's really a 107 00:06:12,206 --> 00:06:16,476 frustration of farmers that we need to depend on the 108 00:06:16,543 --> 00:06:19,179 federal monies to come in in order to pay bills. 109 00:06:19,246 --> 00:06:21,582 >> All right. Darin Von Ruden, thanks for 110 00:06:21,648 --> 00:06:26,453 explaining all this to us. >> Thank you. Fredricka. 111 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,823 >> Just last year, the Wisconsin Supreme Court 112 00:06:29,890 --> 00:06:34,428 overturned the state's 1849 abortion ban, the 4 to 3 113 00:06:34,494 --> 00:06:37,297 decision by the Liberal majority settled the legal 114 00:06:37,364 --> 00:06:40,667 question of which state statute governs abortion. 115 00:06:40,734 --> 00:06:43,904 But that doesn't mean the topic won't be a big factor 116 00:06:43,971 --> 00:06:47,441 in the ad campaign. In this spring's race for a seat on 117 00:06:47,508 --> 00:06:50,978 the Supreme Court, that race is between 118 00:06:51,044 --> 00:06:53,914 conservative Judge Maria Lazar and Liberal Judge 119 00:06:53,981 --> 00:06:57,217 Chris Taylor "Here& Now". Senior political reporter 120 00:06:57,284 --> 00:06:59,987 Zac Schultz sat down with the candidates and has the 121 00:07:00,053 --> 00:07:02,723 story. >> In 2022, the United 122 00:07:03,390 --> 00:07:05,726 States Supreme Court scrambled the political 123 00:07:05,792 --> 00:07:08,962 world with the Dobbs decision overturning Roe 124 00:07:09,029 --> 00:07:11,965 versus Wade and returning the issue of abortion to 125 00:07:12,032 --> 00:07:16,303 the states. In Wisconsin, that meant an 1849 abortion 126 00:07:16,370 --> 00:07:20,440 ban went back into effect. >> As we fight to protect 127 00:07:20,507 --> 00:07:23,577 and now restore reproductive freedom in 128 00:07:23,644 --> 00:07:25,646 Wisconsin. >> The Democratic Attorney 129 00:07:25,712 --> 00:07:29,249 general, Josh Kaul, filed a. >> Lawsuit saying a more 130 00:07:29,316 --> 00:07:32,119 recent abortion law passed by Republicans when Roe was 131 00:07:32,186 --> 00:07:36,790 still in effect, nullified the 1849 ban. The court 132 00:07:36,857 --> 00:07:39,326 agreed with the Liberal majority deciding the case 133 00:07:39,393 --> 00:07:42,829 by one vote. This election will fill the seat of the 134 00:07:42,896 --> 00:07:45,732 retiring conservative Justice Rebecca Bradley. So 135 00:07:45,799 --> 00:07:48,769 if Judge Taylor or Judge Lazar had been on that case, 136 00:07:48,836 --> 00:07:51,605 it wouldn't have changed the outcome. But we wanted 137 00:07:51,672 --> 00:07:54,775 to know if they agreed with the court's decision. 138 00:07:54,842 --> 00:07:59,179 >> So I agree with the decision that the 1849 law 139 00:07:59,947 --> 00:08:03,650 should not be implemented based on laws that had been 140 00:08:03,717 --> 00:08:06,954 passed since then that directly conflict with it. 141 00:08:07,020 --> 00:08:10,524 I think that that was the right decision by the 142 00:08:10,591 --> 00:08:12,559 majority on the state Supreme Court. Again, it 143 00:08:12,626 --> 00:08:15,329 was by one vote. This really contrasts with my 144 00:08:15,395 --> 00:08:20,534 opponent. My opponent would have voted to implement an 145 00:08:21,235 --> 00:08:26,740 1849 abortion ban that was passed when I couldn't vote 146 00:08:26,807 --> 00:08:30,444 and many people couldn't vote. So I think it was 147 00:08:30,511 --> 00:08:34,014 really the right decision by our state Supreme Court. 148 00:08:34,081 --> 00:08:37,918 And that's a big point of difference between myself 149 00:08:37,985 --> 00:08:40,654 and my opponent. >> I'm not going to say how 150 00:08:40,721 --> 00:08:43,657 it would rule, but I will say what I will do moving 151 00:08:43,724 --> 00:08:46,460 forward, and I have put that in positions. I've 152 00:08:46,527 --> 00:08:48,495 released a statement, I've released an op ed talking 153 00:08:48,562 --> 00:08:50,564 about abortion and indicating that this is a 154 00:08:50,631 --> 00:08:53,934 really complicated issue for the woman, and her life 155 00:08:54,001 --> 00:08:56,703 is so valuable and important. And I've 156 00:08:56,770 --> 00:09:00,207 indicated that 1 I respect the rule as decided by the 157 00:09:00,274 --> 00:09:02,843 state Supreme Court. I will only be one of three 158 00:09:02,910 --> 00:09:05,679 members in the majority in the minority, so I won't be 159 00:09:05,746 --> 00:09:08,582 changing that. And two, I think women in the state 160 00:09:08,649 --> 00:09:10,984 need clarity. They need certainty. And three, you 161 00:09:11,051 --> 00:09:13,420 need to lower the temperature on this issue. 162 00:09:13,487 --> 00:09:16,456 This is resolved as far as I'm concerned, for courts, 163 00:09:16,523 --> 00:09:19,359 for the judiciary. The legislature can do what 164 00:09:19,426 --> 00:09:21,695 they want, and the people in the state of Wisconsin 165 00:09:21,762 --> 00:09:24,097 can do what they want. But the judiciary, it's clear 166 00:09:24,164 --> 00:09:26,166 it's done. >> Reporting from Madison. 167 00:09:26,233 --> 00:09:29,236 I'm Zac Schultz for "Here& Now". 168 00:09:30,170 --> 00:09:32,272 >> While the Wisconsin Supreme Court has settled 169 00:09:32,339 --> 00:09:35,609 the issue of state law surrounding abortion, the 170 00:09:35,676 --> 00:09:38,612 medical procedure is not a constitutionally protected 171 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,115 right in Wisconsin. So the next legislature and 172 00:09:42,182 --> 00:09:45,519 governor could change the law at any time. As part of 173 00:09:45,586 --> 00:09:48,222 our continuing series examining the big issues in 174 00:09:48,288 --> 00:09:50,858 the governor's election, Zac Schultz asked the 175 00:09:50,924 --> 00:09:55,229 leading candidates about the topic of abortion. 176 00:09:55,295 --> 00:09:58,198 >> My choice. >> In the nearly four years 177 00:09:58,265 --> 00:10:01,034 since the Dobbs decision has returned the issue of 178 00:10:01,101 --> 00:10:03,971 abortion to the states, Wisconsin's Republican 179 00:10:04,037 --> 00:10:06,773 controlled legislature and Democratic Governor Tony 180 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,544 Evers were not able to agree on any laws regarding 181 00:10:10,611 --> 00:10:13,413 abortion, whether that was time limits, exceptions for 182 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,517 rape and incest, or medical definitions for when the 183 00:10:16,583 --> 00:10:19,520 life of the mother was in danger. We asked the 184 00:10:19,586 --> 00:10:22,222 leading candidates for governor if they would like 185 00:10:22,289 --> 00:10:25,559 to see any changes to Wisconsin's abortion laws. 186 00:10:25,626 --> 00:10:27,895 >> Yes, and I've authored many of them. I believe 187 00:10:27,961 --> 00:10:30,664 that abortion and frankly, all health care decisions 188 00:10:30,731 --> 00:10:34,568 are personal and individual politicians have no role in 189 00:10:34,635 --> 00:10:37,004 making those decisions for you. And certainly we 190 00:10:37,070 --> 00:10:41,642 cannot allow abortion, contraception, IVF to be 191 00:10:42,276 --> 00:10:44,645 criminalized or put doctors under threat when they're 192 00:10:44,711 --> 00:10:47,848 simply providing care. I want to see your freedom to 193 00:10:47,915 --> 00:10:50,417 make your own decisions guaranteed in this state. 194 00:10:50,484 --> 00:10:52,819 >> Look, I'm a huge champion when it comes down 195 00:10:52,886 --> 00:10:55,055 to to abortion here in the state of Wisconsin. When I 196 00:10:55,122 --> 00:10:59,693 was a state representative in 2017, I coauthored 197 00:11:00,227 --> 00:11:03,463 legislation declaring abortion as health care and 198 00:11:03,530 --> 00:11:06,800 as a as a father of three daughters. Being a girl dad 199 00:11:06,867 --> 00:11:08,969 times three is important for me to make sure that 200 00:11:09,036 --> 00:11:12,039 they have the same rights that their mother and 201 00:11:12,105 --> 00:11:15,175 grandmother had, not less. And so I'm going to always 202 00:11:15,242 --> 00:11:18,078 be a champion for women's rights to choose. 203 00:11:18,145 --> 00:11:22,249 >> No. So I voted for the current law, which ten 204 00:11:22,316 --> 00:11:25,118 years ago when I was in the state legislature, which is 205 00:11:25,185 --> 00:11:28,655 you can have an abortion up to five months. And I voted 206 00:11:28,722 --> 00:11:32,125 for that law. And as governor, I will uphold it. 207 00:11:32,192 --> 00:11:35,762 >> Well, abortion to me is a decision that is best 208 00:11:35,829 --> 00:11:39,399 made between a woman and her health care provider. 209 00:11:39,466 --> 00:11:42,369 Abortion is health care. And so, you know, I'd like 210 00:11:42,436 --> 00:11:46,707 to see us to do things that get politics out of that 211 00:11:46,773 --> 00:11:49,510 and ensure that that women and their doctors can make 212 00:11:49,576 --> 00:11:52,513 those decisions, educated and informed decisions on 213 00:11:52,579 --> 00:11:54,882 their own. >> What we need to do is to 214 00:11:54,948 --> 00:11:57,684 make sure that we enshrine Roe within Wisconsin. 215 00:11:57,751 --> 00:11:59,586 That's what I've always been really clear about. 216 00:11:59,653 --> 00:12:02,389 I'm, again, a nurse by background. We know that 217 00:12:02,456 --> 00:12:05,359 these type of healthcare decisions are best made 218 00:12:05,425 --> 00:12:09,630 between a patient and their doctor, and Roe has been 219 00:12:09,696 --> 00:12:12,766 something that has kept women safe for decades. And 220 00:12:12,833 --> 00:12:15,569 we need to make sure that we have legislation to keep 221 00:12:15,636 --> 00:12:18,405 women safe in Wisconsin so that it does not go back 222 00:12:18,472 --> 00:12:20,240 and forth between if we have different leaders 223 00:12:20,307 --> 00:12:23,644 between Republicans and Democrats. 224 00:12:23,710 --> 00:12:28,749 1849 abortion ban. And I think abortion freedom and 225 00:12:28,815 --> 00:12:32,252 is, you know, about health care and democracy as well. 226 00:12:32,319 --> 00:12:36,557 And so I think it's important that we keep in 227 00:12:36,623 --> 00:12:39,826 mind that abortion is health care, and that 228 00:12:39,893 --> 00:12:43,564 access to that health care has to be equitable. 229 00:12:43,630 --> 00:12:46,333 >> And I would love to see this country get back to a 230 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:51,138 pre Dobbs era, because Roe was the law of the land 231 00:12:51,205 --> 00:12:55,309 that was generally accepted by Democrats, of course, 232 00:12:55,375 --> 00:12:58,512 but even Republicans who didn't necessarily like 233 00:12:58,579 --> 00:13:02,082 abortion wasn't their thing. Roe was sort of a 234 00:13:02,149 --> 00:13:03,584 compromise for them and something they felt 235 00:13:03,650 --> 00:13:06,186 comfortable with. >> I would like to see it 236 00:13:06,253 --> 00:13:09,523 proactively protected. Women's right to choose 237 00:13:09,590 --> 00:13:13,060 right now is dependent on court cases, and we need to 238 00:13:13,126 --> 00:13:16,563 have a law on the on the books that protects women's 239 00:13:16,630 --> 00:13:20,300 right to choose, protects women's rights, to take 240 00:13:20,367 --> 00:13:22,469 care of everything that they need for their bodies 241 00:13:22,536 --> 00:13:25,572 and puts women first in that conversation. 242 00:13:25,639 --> 00:13:28,442 >> Reporting from Madison. I'm Zac Schultz for "Here& 243 00:13:28,509 --> 00:13:30,978 Now". >> Our attorneys are 244 00:13:32,513 --> 00:13:34,915 drowning. That's a quote from the Wisconsin state 245 00:13:34,982 --> 00:13:37,818 public defender. After the state Senate adjourned 246 00:13:37,885 --> 00:13:41,788 without taking up a bill to fund 52 new positions, 247 00:13:41,855 --> 00:13:45,058 including 18 additional attorneys, the agency says 248 00:13:45,125 --> 00:13:48,529 a staff shortage leaves defendants waiting for 249 00:13:48,595 --> 00:13:51,465 representation and a backlog of cases in the 250 00:13:51,532 --> 00:13:54,001 courts. Here to talk about it, deputy State Public 251 00:13:54,067 --> 00:13:56,403 Defender Bridget Krause, and thanks very much for 252 00:13:56,470 --> 00:13:58,472 being here. >> Good morning. Thanks for 253 00:13:58,539 --> 00:14:00,774 having me. >> So how has the shortage 254 00:14:00,841 --> 00:14:04,411 of support staff and attorneys grown? 255 00:14:05,279 --> 00:14:08,348 >> It's grown tremendously over the last few years, 256 00:14:08,415 --> 00:14:11,051 especially since the pandemic. Not only have we 257 00:14:11,118 --> 00:14:14,087 been short with the number of private bar lawyers that 258 00:14:14,154 --> 00:14:17,491 are taking cases in the state of Wisconsin, we've 259 00:14:17,558 --> 00:14:19,993 also had an increase in the number of cases coming in, 260 00:14:20,060 --> 00:14:22,896 but we have not had an increase in the number of 261 00:14:22,963 --> 00:14:26,066 public defenders or public defender's support staff 262 00:14:26,133 --> 00:14:30,337 added to the SPD. So it has been growth over a number 263 00:14:30,404 --> 00:14:33,273 of years. And I think after the pandemic, we finally 264 00:14:33,340 --> 00:14:36,210 saw how it was affecting both the legal system as 265 00:14:36,276 --> 00:14:39,313 well as the attorneys and the clients that are 266 00:14:39,379 --> 00:14:41,481 represented by the public defender's office. 267 00:14:41,548 --> 00:14:43,717 >> What are the consequences of not having 268 00:14:43,784 --> 00:14:46,486 enough people to timely defend everyone who needs 269 00:14:46,553 --> 00:14:48,789 it? >> People waiting in 270 00:14:49,656 --> 00:14:53,093 custody longer, right cases go longer without having a 271 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,230 lawyer. So we have had clients sitting in custody 272 00:14:56,296 --> 00:14:58,599 prior to a preliminary hearing, which they're 273 00:14:58,665 --> 00:15:01,368 entitled to have within ten days if they're in custody, 274 00:15:01,435 --> 00:15:03,670 20 days if they're out of custody and they're sitting 275 00:15:03,737 --> 00:15:05,639 there without a lawyer because there's no lawyer 276 00:15:05,706 --> 00:15:08,075 to take their case, you also have cases in the 277 00:15:08,141 --> 00:15:11,512 system longer, right? So cases that might have 278 00:15:11,578 --> 00:15:15,482 resolved 66 months to nine months pre-pandemic now are 279 00:15:15,549 --> 00:15:18,352 waiting longer to resolve or longer to even get an 280 00:15:18,418 --> 00:15:22,189 attorney. So there's a lot of delay in both getting a 281 00:15:22,256 --> 00:15:24,625 client, a lawyer, and there's a lot of delay in 282 00:15:24,691 --> 00:15:28,328 resolving a case which could have an impact on 283 00:15:28,395 --> 00:15:32,299 both the system as well as the individuals who, you 284 00:15:32,366 --> 00:15:34,568 know, the complaining witnesses in a case, the 285 00:15:34,635 --> 00:15:36,737 people that have gone to the police for help, it 286 00:15:36,803 --> 00:15:39,673 delays the case for them. Also. 287 00:15:39,740 --> 00:15:42,109 >> What are the frustrations like inside 288 00:15:42,176 --> 00:15:46,747 the courtroom, inside the criminal justice system? 289 00:15:46,813 --> 00:15:48,949 >> I think the judges are frustrated, right? They're 290 00:15:49,016 --> 00:15:50,651 frustrated. >> Because there's no 291 00:15:50,717 --> 00:15:54,221 lawyer sitting with the client at very important 292 00:15:54,288 --> 00:15:57,491 stages, including a preliminary hearing as the 293 00:15:57,558 --> 00:16:00,527 case moves forward. Right. It's hard to get a lawyer 294 00:16:00,594 --> 00:16:03,697 to sit with that client if there's no lawyers 295 00:16:03,764 --> 00:16:06,066 available. There's a lot of frustration by public 296 00:16:06,133 --> 00:16:07,901 defenders. Honestly, we want to represent our 297 00:16:07,968 --> 00:16:10,204 clients. We don't want people sitting in custody 298 00:16:10,270 --> 00:16:12,973 without a lawyer, right? We don't want people sitting 299 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,175 there that could be innocent of the crimes that 300 00:16:15,242 --> 00:16:17,144 they've been accused of, because they don't have a 301 00:16:17,211 --> 00:16:20,247 lawyer to represent them. I think it's frustrating for 302 00:16:20,314 --> 00:16:22,616 prosecutors, too, honestly, because they have charged 303 00:16:22,683 --> 00:16:25,953 specific cases and someone doesn't have a lawyer. 304 00:16:26,019 --> 00:16:27,988 Therefore, that case cannot move forward. So I think 305 00:16:28,055 --> 00:16:30,958 there's a lot of frustration in the system. 306 00:16:31,024 --> 00:16:34,628 It's probably frustrating also, honestly, for the 307 00:16:34,695 --> 00:16:37,064 sheriff's office that run the jails, because if you 308 00:16:37,130 --> 00:16:39,399 can't get a lawyer for a client, that client might 309 00:16:39,466 --> 00:16:42,870 sit in custody and then you have more people in custody 310 00:16:42,936 --> 00:16:44,972 than should be in custody and the jails can't handle 311 00:16:45,038 --> 00:16:47,941 it. new prosecutor positions. 312 00:16:48,408 --> 00:16:51,912 How does that exacerbate case delays? 313 00:16:51,979 --> 00:16:54,681 >> I mean, there's only so many. 314 00:16:54,748 --> 00:16:56,450 >> Lawyers to take the cases that are coming in. 315 00:16:56,517 --> 00:16:59,086 And when you add prosecutors, you add the 316 00:16:59,152 --> 00:17:01,955 number of cases coming into the system. So if you're 317 00:17:02,022 --> 00:17:05,192 adding prosecutors on one side, they're reviewing 318 00:17:05,259 --> 00:17:07,694 charges, they're charging cases. But if you don't 319 00:17:07,761 --> 00:17:09,863 have the lawyers on the other side to represent 320 00:17:09,930 --> 00:17:13,200 those clients, it just bottlenecks the system. So 321 00:17:13,267 --> 00:17:16,937 any progress that we make in bringing in new lawyers, 322 00:17:17,004 --> 00:17:19,907 new private bar lawyers to take the cases, any 323 00:17:19,973 --> 00:17:22,509 progress we make in filling vacancies in the state 324 00:17:22,576 --> 00:17:26,180 public defender's really go nowhere because of the 325 00:17:26,246 --> 00:17:28,282 increase in the number of cases coming into the 326 00:17:28,348 --> 00:17:30,984 system. >> So you spoke to private 327 00:17:31,051 --> 00:17:35,155 bar attorneys who can be appointed, and are they at 328 00:17:35,222 --> 00:17:38,692 all helping to offset this shortage? 329 00:17:39,793 --> 00:17:42,062 >> I think they're helping as much as they can. Right? 330 00:17:42,129 --> 00:17:45,832 They also only have so much bandwidth. So they can also 331 00:17:45,899 --> 00:17:49,036 only take so many cases. We have some really great 332 00:17:49,102 --> 00:17:52,272 private bar partners who take cases for us. Right. 333 00:17:52,339 --> 00:17:55,309 And they've taken cases for us for years. But at some 334 00:17:55,375 --> 00:17:58,011 point they are also saturated with representing 335 00:17:58,078 --> 00:18:00,514 clients. And it's not just a warm body next to a 336 00:18:00,581 --> 00:18:05,052 client, right? A client has a right to effective 337 00:18:05,686 --> 00:18:08,589 ethical representation. And if you have too many cases, 338 00:18:08,655 --> 00:18:10,891 you can't provide that to a client. So I think our 339 00:18:10,958 --> 00:18:13,861 private bar partners are working really hard to help 340 00:18:13,927 --> 00:18:16,330 us. But again, you only have so many lawyers. And 341 00:18:16,396 --> 00:18:19,032 if you continue to bring the cases in, you just 342 00:18:19,099 --> 00:18:21,134 don't have enough lawyers to handle those cases. 343 00:18:21,201 --> 00:18:23,837 >> Now, your agency calls this an unfunded mandate. 344 00:18:23,904 --> 00:18:27,508 What's the mandate? >> I think the mandate is, 345 00:18:27,574 --> 00:18:30,544 you know, Gideon, the anniversary of Gideon was 346 00:18:30,611 --> 00:18:33,313 just this past Wednesday. And Gideon, the US Supreme 347 00:18:33,380 --> 00:18:36,617 Court said that clients have a constitutional right 348 00:18:36,683 --> 00:18:40,187 to have a lawyer represent them. That's the mandate. 349 00:18:40,254 --> 00:18:43,991 When you don't have lawyers checking the prosecution, 350 00:18:44,057 --> 00:18:48,195 checking the police department, it causes a 351 00:18:48,795 --> 00:18:52,065 tremendous it causes an effect across the state, 352 00:18:52,132 --> 00:18:54,935 across our counties, across our cities, because people 353 00:18:55,002 --> 00:18:58,539 are unchecked and they're able to prosecute people or 354 00:18:58,605 --> 00:19:01,642 charge people with very serious cases. And if you 355 00:19:01,708 --> 00:19:04,444 don't have a lawyer sitting next to that client, it 356 00:19:04,511 --> 00:19:08,515 affects the entire community. So we have an 357 00:19:09,016 --> 00:19:12,586 obligation, an obligation in our state to provide 358 00:19:12,653 --> 00:19:15,989 lawyers for people that are charged with crimes. There 359 00:19:16,056 --> 00:19:18,625 is a there is a constitutional protecting. 360 00:19:18,692 --> 00:19:21,528 Those clients have to be proven guilty beyond a 361 00:19:21,595 --> 00:19:24,398 reasonable doubt. But you need a lawyer sitting next 362 00:19:24,464 --> 00:19:28,035 to that client providing that defense, reviewing 363 00:19:28,101 --> 00:19:30,404 that discovery, providing that advice to clients and 364 00:19:30,470 --> 00:19:33,173 fighting in court if necessary. And when you 365 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,809 don't have that, the entire system fails. 366 00:19:35,876 --> 00:19:37,711 >> We leave it there. Bridgette Krause, thanks 367 00:19:37,778 --> 00:19:40,013 very much. >> Thank you. 368 00:19:41,281 --> 00:19:43,317 >> The state Senate adjourned this week, but 369 00:19:43,383 --> 00:19:46,353 not before passing bipartisan bills to release 370 00:19:46,420 --> 00:19:51,358 more than $125 million for PFAs cleanup protections 371 00:19:51,425 --> 00:19:54,695 and help for communities poisoned by the forever 372 00:19:54,761 --> 00:19:57,231 chemical. After years of impasse, the measures now 373 00:19:57,297 --> 00:20:00,767 head to the governor for signing in. Related news, 374 00:20:00,834 --> 00:20:04,671 tonight we share a new on air program and podcast 375 00:20:04,738 --> 00:20:09,877 from W, r and PBS Wisconsin News. Inside Wisconsin 376 00:20:09,943 --> 00:20:12,479 Politics is a weekly political roundtable that 377 00:20:12,546 --> 00:20:15,816 brings together our most experienced Capitol 378 00:20:15,883 --> 00:20:18,051 reporters to share the week's political and 379 00:20:18,118 --> 00:20:20,921 government news, explaining what happened, what it 380 00:20:20,988 --> 00:20:24,424 means and why it matters. PBS Wisconsin senior 381 00:20:24,491 --> 00:20:27,828 political reporter Zac Schultz w p r Capitol 382 00:20:27,895 --> 00:20:31,298 Bureau Chief Shawn Johnson and w r political reporters 383 00:20:31,365 --> 00:20:34,835 Rich Kramer and Anna Van Wagtendonk joined The 384 00:20:34,902 --> 00:20:37,137 conversation. Today's program included the 385 00:20:37,204 --> 00:20:39,606 breaking news that the Republican state Senate 386 00:20:39,673 --> 00:20:42,843 majority leader will not run for reelection. The 387 00:20:42,910 --> 00:20:45,445 crew unpacked whether the governor will sign the 388 00:20:45,512 --> 00:20:48,282 online sports betting bill passed out of the chamber, 389 00:20:48,348 --> 00:20:51,885 the approval of money for the UW to offset name, 390 00:20:51,952 --> 00:20:55,689 image and likeness costs of athletes and data centers, 391 00:20:55,756 --> 00:20:58,559 and how the politics of the final regular Senate 392 00:20:58,625 --> 00:21:02,529 session played into it all. Here's an excerpt. 393 00:21:02,596 --> 00:21:04,831 >> The Wisconsin Senate wraps up its regular 394 00:21:04,898 --> 00:21:08,869 business for 2026. What passed, what didn't, and 395 00:21:08,936 --> 00:21:11,305 what can we learn from the way this Senate voted? This 396 00:21:11,371 --> 00:21:14,274 is inside Wisconsin politics. 397 00:21:15,709 --> 00:21:18,145 The Senate gave us lots to talk about, including as 398 00:21:18,212 --> 00:21:20,347 we're getting ready to record news that the Senate 399 00:21:20,414 --> 00:21:23,183 majority leader, Devin LeMahiue, is not going to 400 00:21:23,250 --> 00:21:25,352 seek reelection, which in the world of the state 401 00:21:25,419 --> 00:21:28,655 Capitol, as you all know, that is a pretty big deal. 402 00:21:28,722 --> 00:21:31,758 Zac, what can we take from that, given the way that 403 00:21:31,825 --> 00:21:34,361 the Senate has been acting this week? And how big a 404 00:21:34,428 --> 00:21:37,264 deal is it in the Capitol? >> Well, it certainly felt 405 00:21:37,331 --> 00:21:41,034 like a week of voting where people weren't worried 406 00:21:41,101 --> 00:21:43,770 the next term. There were questions of whether that 407 00:21:43,837 --> 00:21:45,906 signaled LeMahiue knew that his majority position was 408 00:21:45,973 --> 00:21:47,841 at stake. As Republicans are worried about having 409 00:21:47,908 --> 00:21:50,744 the Dems flip the Senate. But I think the bigger 410 00:21:50,811 --> 00:21:53,580 picture to look here is we're going to have a new 411 00:21:53,647 --> 00:21:55,716 majority leader in the Senate, a new speaker in 412 00:21:55,782 --> 00:21:57,985 the Assembly and a new governor. And the last time 413 00:21:58,051 --> 00:22:01,488 that happened was 2011 with Scott Walker and the Fitz's 414 00:22:01,555 --> 00:22:03,724 running the show. Big changes that time. We might 415 00:22:03,790 --> 00:22:06,059 see big changes next session, too. 416 00:22:06,126 --> 00:22:08,962 >> A wave election. And there's people, of course, 417 00:22:09,029 --> 00:22:11,231 every every election is nationalized right now. And 418 00:22:11,298 --> 00:22:14,268 there have already been people talking about 419 00:22:14,334 --> 00:22:18,639 nationalized democratic you know, that Capitol 420 00:22:18,705 --> 00:22:22,676 building and you know how much sway leaders carry, 421 00:22:22,743 --> 00:22:25,512 how big of a deal is it to you that Devin LeMahiue, 422 00:22:25,579 --> 00:22:27,114 the leader that you've covered in that Senate 423 00:22:27,181 --> 00:22:30,918 since you've been here is stepping down? 424 00:22:30,984 --> 00:22:33,053 that came forward where there was a real question 425 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:35,122 of whether Devin would let them get to the floor, 426 00:22:35,189 --> 00:22:37,891 because he did not have Republican votes. And so 427 00:22:37,958 --> 00:22:39,993 there were kind of threats being floated about what 428 00:22:40,060 --> 00:22:41,962 that would mean for his leadership position. And 429 00:22:42,029 --> 00:22:43,897 those bills passed with necessary Democratic votes 430 00:22:43,964 --> 00:22:46,166 in order to pass. And so then him stepping down, it 431 00:22:46,233 --> 00:22:48,969 really is this kind of signal that he whatever 432 00:22:49,036 --> 00:22:50,971 kind of consequences might have come in the caucus, he 433 00:22:51,038 --> 00:22:53,040 doesn't have to worry about them anymore. 434 00:22:53,106 --> 00:22:55,108 >> And Rich, you were covering the session this 435 00:22:55,175 --> 00:22:57,811 week and that question of whether or not to get 436 00:22:57,878 --> 00:23:00,781 Democratic votes is talking about. And, you 437 00:23:00,848 --> 00:23:04,117 know, the Senate Senator LeMahiue even had some kind 438 00:23:04,184 --> 00:23:06,920 of not so veiled threats thrown out from a member of 439 00:23:06,987 --> 00:23:10,958 his own caucus. Don't do that. Basically, how 440 00:23:11,024 --> 00:23:14,661 unusual was this session week in terms of 441 00:23:14,728 --> 00:23:17,831 bipartisanship? Frankly. >> Things are changing 442 00:23:17,898 --> 00:23:20,300 there. It feels like things are changing in the Senate. 443 00:23:20,367 --> 00:23:23,504 They used to have a supermajority not that long 444 00:23:23,570 --> 00:23:26,607 ago. Then we got new maps after the Wisconsin Supreme 445 00:23:26,673 --> 00:23:28,876 Court's Liberal majority struck down ones that were 446 00:23:28,942 --> 00:23:32,880 drawn by Republicans back in 2011. And then we had an 447 00:23:32,946 --> 00:23:34,882 election under those maps. So that supermajority went 448 00:23:34,948 --> 00:23:39,419 down to 18 Republican senators. And that threat 449 00:23:40,854 --> 00:23:44,391 goes to this thing called the the rule of 17. It's an 450 00:23:44,458 --> 00:23:48,629 informal rule, but the idea is that if you're in the 451 00:23:48,695 --> 00:23:52,599 majority, you pass bills with majority support. You 452 00:23:52,666 --> 00:23:55,035 don't even really consider them if you don't have 453 00:23:55,102 --> 00:23:59,039 those 17 votes. But we saw examples where Devin 454 00:23:59,106 --> 00:24:01,608 LeMahiue went ahead and passed them anyway with 455 00:24:01,675 --> 00:24:04,611 Democratic support. >> So let's unpack a couple 456 00:24:04,678 --> 00:24:07,514 of the bills where this did end up being a factor this 457 00:24:07,581 --> 00:24:10,684 week. And one of the bills that did die was this 458 00:24:10,751 --> 00:24:14,354 Republican data center bill would regulate data centers. 459 00:24:14,421 --> 00:24:17,891 Speaker Vos very helpfully had a forum on the last day 460 00:24:17,958 --> 00:24:21,128 of Senate session where he had some opinions about the 461 00:24:21,195 --> 00:24:24,131 Senate not taking up his data center bill. Ana what 462 00:24:24,198 --> 00:24:26,500 did he have to say? >> Yeah, I mean, this was 463 00:24:26,567 --> 00:24:28,435 basically the closest that the legislature came to 464 00:24:28,502 --> 00:24:31,205 having any type of regulatory bill for data 465 00:24:31,271 --> 00:24:33,307 centers, which of course, are kind of exploding 466 00:24:33,373 --> 00:24:36,176 across the state. And the fact that it is that it did 467 00:24:36,243 --> 00:24:38,445 not reach the floor of the Senate means that the 468 00:24:38,512 --> 00:24:40,314 session has passed without basically any guardrails, 469 00:24:40,380 --> 00:24:42,583 any new guardrails coming on. But this was a 470 00:24:42,649 --> 00:24:44,985 Republican bill Vos championed it. It had a few 471 00:24:45,052 --> 00:24:47,287 Democratic votes in the Assembly, but most 472 00:24:47,354 --> 00:24:49,790 Democrats said this is rushed. We need to be more 473 00:24:49,857 --> 00:24:52,059 thoughtful about how we are regulating data centers. 474 00:24:52,125 --> 00:24:54,561 And then the Senate didn't even bring it to the floor. 475 00:24:54,628 --> 00:24:57,831 But Vos talked about, you know, that really being as 476 00:24:57,898 --> 00:25:00,701 he thought, an issue for Senate Republicans, that if 477 00:25:00,767 --> 00:25:03,537 they don't kind of lead on this issue, that it might 478 00:25:03,604 --> 00:25:07,508 cost them votes in November. >> Yeah. It's rare to hear 479 00:25:07,574 --> 00:25:10,611 a speaker come out against a majority leader from his 480 00:25:10,677 --> 00:25:13,647 own party the week that he's still in session with 481 00:25:13,714 --> 00:25:18,018 that kind of criticism. I think sort of the secret 482 00:25:18,085 --> 00:25:21,989 was sort of out on Tuesday. I mean, we didn't know know 483 00:25:22,055 --> 00:25:24,892 that Devin LeMahiue was not going to seek reelection, 484 00:25:24,958 --> 00:25:27,694 but there was talk about it. There was speculation about 485 00:25:27,761 --> 00:25:30,130 it. People are looking at the Senate math and they're 486 00:25:30,197 --> 00:25:33,367 thinking about it. >> Well, it changes a lot 487 00:25:33,433 --> 00:25:36,236 when no one has to worry about reelection next year. 488 00:25:36,303 --> 00:25:38,805 And Serve Wisconsin LeMahiue can all speak in 489 00:25:38,872 --> 00:25:41,675 ways that we have not heard or we have not heard them 490 00:25:41,742 --> 00:25:43,710 speak publicly. We've heard them off the record or 491 00:25:43,777 --> 00:25:46,580 heard from their staffers. But I think this bill in 492 00:25:46,647 --> 00:25:49,082 particular still has the next election cycle written 493 00:25:49,149 --> 00:25:52,119 all over it, as Vos pointed out, because it's a major 494 00:25:52,186 --> 00:25:54,254 issue in the gubernatorial campaign. I think if 495 00:25:54,321 --> 00:25:56,990 LeMahiue had a strong point of view, he would have 496 00:25:57,057 --> 00:25:59,126 brought up the floor and let Democrats help pass it 497 00:25:59,193 --> 00:26:02,196 if he thought that was the way to go. But there's not 498 00:26:02,262 --> 00:26:04,798 a clear advantage at this time. And Tom, Tiffany as 499 00:26:04,865 --> 00:26:08,001 governor is clearly as well. So this is 500 00:26:08,068 --> 00:26:10,504 definitely one for the fall. >> You can find the full 501 00:26:10,571 --> 00:26:15,576 Inside Wisconsin politics at PBS Wisconsin. Org dot, 502 00:26:16,610 --> 00:26:19,813 YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Visit our 503 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,350 website at PBS. Org and then click on the news tab. 504 00:26:23,417 --> 00:26:25,619 That's our program for tonight. I'm Frederica 505 00:26:25,686 --> 00:26:28,589 Freyberg. Have a good weekend. 506 00:26:44,872 --> 00:26:45,906 >> Funding for here and Now is provided by the fund for 507 00:26:45,973 --> 00:26:49,042 is provided by the fund for Journalism and Friends of 508 00:26:49,109 --> 00:26:50,777 PBS Wisconsin.