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>> The following program is
a PBS Wisconsin original

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production.
>> People in the United

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States do not want this war.
People are against this war.

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>> Antiwar protests turn
out in Wisconsin to oppose

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U.S. strikes against Iran,
even as many Iranian

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Americans embrace the
military intervention,

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hoping for change. I'm
Frederica Freyberg. Tonight

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on "Here& Now", we hear
from both Wisconsin U.S.

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senators on the war with
Iran and exploratory

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drilling in the Northwoods
hopes to bring metallic

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mining back to Wisconsin.
It's "Here& Now" for March

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6th.
>> Funding for "Here& Now"

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is provided by the Focus
Fund for Journalism and

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Friends of PBS Wisconsin.
>> The U.S. war in Iraq

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wages on with no letup in
sight. The Wisconsin Army

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National Guard has more
than 400 troops on the

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ground in Kuwait and Iraq,
and were praised for their

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value to the mission by the
U.S. commanding general. As

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to potential domestic
threats, late this week,

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Senate Democrats once again
blocked Department of

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Homeland Security funding,
which Republicans pounced

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on. We asked Wisconsin U.S.
senators about that issue

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and the war itself. When we
spoke with them just ahead

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of that DHS funding vote.
We start with Democratic

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Senator Tammy Baldwin.
Thanks very much for being

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here.
>> Thanks for having me.

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>> So you voted this week
in favor of a war Powers

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resolution to block future
U.S. military action in

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Iran. It failed mostly on
party lines. But describe

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why you voted for it.
>> Look, first of all,

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Americans have been clear.
They do not want another

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forever war in the Middle
East. They want Congress

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and this president to be
focused on needs at home,

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addressing the high cost of
things like groceries,

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housing, child care, and
health care. And this

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president, in fact,
promised that he would

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bring foreign wars to an
end, not start them. Let me

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be very clear. This is a
war of choice. The US and

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US interests were not under
attack, nor were we under

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imminent threat of attack.
And because of that, this

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is a war of choice. And the
president needed to go to

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Congress to get
authorization. It is an

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illegal war because of his
failure to do that. I voted

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to bring this to an end and
and would note, though,

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that it is the proponents
of this war who bear the

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burden of getting
congressional authorization

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for it, and they have
failed to do that. The

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Constitution makes it the
responsibility of Congress,

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who represent the people to
declare war. And that has

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not happened. And instead,
we are spending billions of

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dollars each day in this
war, and we're losing the

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lives of our troops,
including six who have lost

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their lives in this
conflict so far.

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>> You say that Iran poses
a real threat. Then why not

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take decisive action to
thwart them?

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>> I took decisive action
in 2015 when I voted for

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the Iran nuclear deal. I
believe that this dangerous

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and murderous regime should
never have a nuclear weapon.

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And that 2015 Iran nuclear
deal reined in their

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nuclear program. Diplomacy
is the way to address this.

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Sadly, when President Trump
took office in his first

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term, he ripped up the Iran
nuclear deal and let that

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program continue unfettered
by intrusive international

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inspection. That was a very
bad mistake on President

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Trump's part, and has led
to Iran continuing with its

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nuclear program, its
ballistic missile program.

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So that's the way we rein
them in is through

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diplomacy, hard diplomacy,
but through diplomacy, not

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war.
>> Does it matter that the

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administration's
justification for the

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strikes was changing in the
early days?

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>> It matters significantly
that from almost hour to

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hour, there was a new
reason why the Trump

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administration said it was
contemplating military

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action and then engaging in
it. So a few weeks ago,

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reacting to the uprising
within Iran against the

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regime and their economic
situation, President Trump

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said, we're contemplating
military action to support

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those protesters. A few
weeks later, he was talking

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about the nuclear program.
Then he was talking about

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the ballistic missile
program. Then he was

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talking about regime change.
What is crystal clear is

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that this is a war of
choice, and that this

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administration has
articulated no specific

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reason or strategy or exit
strategy, which is

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something that we need to
hear from this

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administration.
>> What are your utmost

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concerns about this war?
>> Look, I think that this

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is something that could
become a regional war. It

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already is. Let's be clear
in in response to to our

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attacks, along with the
Israeli strikes, Iran has

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sent drones and ballistic
missiles to countries all

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across the region. This is
exactly what this president

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promised to get us out of,
not get us into. And I'm

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very worried about the loss
of life, both civilian

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allied troops as well as
our troops, and the

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exorbitant expense that
this will cost to have such

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a military operation
continue on, maybe for

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weeks, maybe for months.
I'm very, very worried

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about it. And it also means
that this this president's

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attention is once again
somewhere else. Venezuela

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boats in the Pacific and
Caribbean. Now Iran, his

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focus is not on the
concerns of Wisconsinites

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every day, concerns like
the high cost of things and

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barely being able to get by.
>> What is your message to

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men and women from
Wisconsin National Guard

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now serving as part of this
war mission?

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>> My message to those
serving in theater, but

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also those serving their
country, is thank you for

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your service and we will do
our best to make sure that

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service is and make sure
that the war that is

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ongoing becomes something
that is the subject of

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congressional debate, so
that the people of this

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nation, your parents, your,
your families have a say in

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whether we continue this or
not.

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>> In June, when the when
the US launched strikes

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against Iran, there was a
public facing heightened

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threat alert for inside the
US. Now I see that the

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National Terrorism Advisory
System says due to the

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lapse in federal funding,
its website will not be

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actively managed. What is
your response to that?

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>> So Democrats are moving
forward to make sure that

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the Department of Homeland
Security operations are

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funded, except for ICE
operations and Border

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Patrol operations, because
they have shown themselves

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in our neighboring state of
Minnesota, as well as other

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states, to be acting as a
rogue agencies, and they

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need to be reined in. But
we're offering Republicans

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the opportunity to fund all
other activities of the

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Department of Homeland
Security, except for Ice

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and Border Patrol.
>> We leave it there.

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Senator Tammy Baldwin,
thank you so much.

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>> Thank you for having me.
>> We turn now to

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Republican U.S. Senator Ron
Johnson on the war with

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Iran. And, Senator, thanks
very much for being here.

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>> Thanks for having me on.
>> So you voted this week

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against a War Powers
resolution to block future

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U.S. military action in
Iran. It failed mostly on

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party lines. But describe
why you voted against it.

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>> Well, first of all, we
have to recognize Iran has

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been at war with us for 47
years in a low grade war.

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But they have the the blood
of hundreds, maybe

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thousands of Americans on
their hands. The largest

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state sponsor of terror.
They've declared that we

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are, you know, death to
America, death to Israel.

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They are a menace. They
threaten world peace. They

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threaten regional peace.
And at some point in time,

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we simply weren't going to
be able to deal with them.

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If they became a nuclear
power or they build up

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their, their missile
inventory to such an extent

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that you couldn't act. And
President Trump decided

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this the moment to act. You
cannot have 535 commanders

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in chief, quite honestly,
even a full blown

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discussion prior to the
military action would have

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completely neutered our
ability to to take the type

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of decisive action we've
taken. So again, the

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Constitution means
something to me. We have a

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commander in chief. Yes.
Congress is is charged with

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declaring war, but we
haven't declared war since

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World War Two. And look at
all the military

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interventions from both
Republican and Democrat

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administrations. So this is
the way things are right

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now. And when information
really travels the speed of

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light, you've got to make
quick decisions. And that's

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why we have a a commander
in chief.

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>> Does it does it matter
in your mind that the

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administration's
justification for the

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the first days?
>> I think there's multiple

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reasons. Again, you know,
it's not like we declared

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war on Iran. They declared
war on us. And this has

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just been ongoing there.
The threat has been

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persistent. And at some
point in time, we were

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going to have to act. And
good, good thing that we

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did act before it was too
late.

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>> How do you think this
will progress or escalate

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and ultimately end?
>> Well, I think the

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administration, the
in terms of his war aims

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destroy their missile
capability launchers. The

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missiles themselves are
manufacturing capabilities,

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destroy their navy so they
can't, you know, stop the

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flow of oil, make sure that
they will never have a

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nuclear weapon. Those those
are three war aims.

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President Trump is highly
reluctant to put boots on

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the ground. That's why he's
encouraging the Iranian

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people. This is the moment
of the regime's weakness.

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Take advantage of it. Take
back your country. I

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sincerely hope Iranian
people do that. But again,

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this this is not he's he's
not going to ensure regime

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change. That's going to be
up to the Iranian people.

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And I hope they do, because
if they do, what we will be

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witnessing is just historic
opportunity to create far

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greater peace and stability,
not only in the Middle East

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but throughout the world.
>> How concerning is it

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that this has spread to the
entire region?

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>> Well, that's Iran's
doing. I mean, that just

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shows what a persistent
threat they are. You know,

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normally if you go to war,
you want to try and find

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allies. They're just
creating greater enemies.

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So again, that just proves
the point. Iran was going

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to have to be taken care of
at some point in time. I

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guess this is that point in
time. And I for one, hope

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the regime falls and that
the Iranian people take

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over Iran for the benefit
of themselves.

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>> How how does that work?
How do the Iranians take

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over their country?
>> It's going to be very

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difficult. I mean, there's
again, there's no guarantee

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whatsoever. There's 200,000
in the Revolutionary Guard.

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There's another 600,000 in
their militias, the brutal

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militias that slaughtered
32,000 Iranians in just a

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few days. You know, there
were 16 or 17,000

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executions in the French
Revolution, 2 to 5000

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executions during the
Spanish Inquisition. Just

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puts you puts the Iranian
regime how brutal they are

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just in context. So again,
this is this is an evil

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regime. The sooner they're
gone, the better.

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>> What is your message to
men and women from

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Wisconsin now serving as
part of the war mission?

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>> First of all, thank you
for your service and

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Godspeed. It's tragic. I
mean, you know, we have a

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mom from Wisconsin who lost
her daughter from White

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Bear Lake. I mean, you read
about that. It's just it's

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just absolutely tragic. So
nobody, nobody wants to see

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these types of fatalities.
But unfortunately, that's

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that's what happens when
you have an evil regime

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like Iran that threatens
everybody that has to be

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taken care of.
>> You know, this question,

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is it the United States
right to take out other

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countries rulers, even with
the Ronald Reagan executive

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order that bans such
assassinations?

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>> I don't know how many
times I have to point this

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out. We didn't start this.
All Iran would have had to

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do is agree not to obtain a
nuclear weapon, stop

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00:14:21,261 --> 00:14:23,764
enriching uranium if they
want nuclear power by the

234
00:14:23,830 --> 00:14:26,533
power rods, that's all they
had to do. There wouldn't

235
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,169
have been sanctions, there
wouldn't be bombs dropping.

236
00:14:29,236 --> 00:14:33,640
But they refused to do that.
Take that one simple step.

237
00:14:33,707 --> 00:14:35,976
And the fact that they
didn't do that, as I said,

238
00:14:36,043 --> 00:14:38,745
speaks volumes and just
shows what a menace they

239
00:14:38,812 --> 00:14:41,715
were. So we we had to take
them out. And again, I do

240
00:14:41,782 --> 00:14:45,052
not mourn the loss of
Khomeini and the people

241
00:14:45,118 --> 00:14:48,589
underneath him.
>> What about the way

242
00:14:49,356 --> 00:14:52,125
people on the other side of
the aisle are talking about

243
00:14:52,192 --> 00:14:56,997
how it should have been
diplomacy that solved this?

244
00:14:58,265 --> 00:15:01,969
>> We've been we've been
trying diplomacy for 47

245
00:15:02,035 --> 00:15:06,874
years with Iran. Obviously,
it was never going to work.

246
00:15:06,940 --> 00:15:10,077
We could not allow them.
And even the other side of

247
00:15:10,143 --> 00:15:12,312
the aisle will say, we
can't allow them to become

248
00:15:12,379 --> 00:15:15,215
a nuclear power. Well, what
are we going to do to stop

249
00:15:15,282 --> 00:15:17,351
them? Eventually they're
going to become a nuclear

250
00:15:17,417 --> 00:15:19,887
power. Then they would have
been untouchable. President

251
00:15:19,953 --> 00:15:22,256
Trump's prevented them from
ever reaching that stage.

252
00:15:22,322 --> 00:15:25,225
>> Now, the National
Terrorism Advisory System

253
00:15:25,292 --> 00:15:29,796
says due to the lapse in
federal funding, the

254
00:15:29,863 --> 00:15:34,067
website will not be
actively managed. So what

255
00:15:34,134 --> 00:15:37,504
is your response to that?
>> We ought to fund DHS. I

256
00:15:37,571 --> 00:15:41,041
mean, it's incredible to me
that, you know, at this

257
00:15:41,108 --> 00:15:43,644
moment of danger for our
homeland, Democrats are

258
00:15:43,710 --> 00:15:47,548
still digging their heels
in not funding DHS. And the

259
00:15:47,614 --> 00:15:50,083
excuse they're using is
they want to defund ICE.

260
00:15:50,150 --> 00:15:53,253
Well, ICE is fully funded.
Ice agents are getting

261
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,657
paychecks. It's the other
components of DHS that

262
00:15:56,723 --> 00:15:59,092
aren't. And there are a lot
of components, DHS, that

263
00:15:59,159 --> 00:16:01,695
that work to try and keep
us safe. So I think it's

264
00:16:01,762 --> 00:16:04,831
unconscionable. The
defund DHS.

265
00:16:04,898 --> 00:16:06,633
>> All right, Senator
Johnson, thank you very

266
00:16:06,700 --> 00:16:08,936
much.
>> Have a good day.

267
00:16:10,871 --> 00:16:13,941
>> Right now in northern
Wisconsin, crews are

268
00:16:14,007 --> 00:16:17,744
working around the clock to
drill deep into the bedrock.

269
00:16:17,811 --> 00:16:21,348
It's called exploratory
drilling. And the goal is

270
00:16:21,415 --> 00:16:25,219
to determine if a deposit
of copper, gold and other

271
00:16:25,285 --> 00:16:27,921
minerals in the rock is
rich enough to bring

272
00:16:27,988 --> 00:16:30,991
metallic sulfide mining
back to the state. Here and

273
00:16:31,058 --> 00:16:33,627
now, senior political
reporter Zac Schultz has

274
00:16:33,694 --> 00:16:36,830
the story.
>> What we have going on

275
00:16:37,564 --> 00:16:41,535
here is the drilling
process has just started.

276
00:16:41,602 --> 00:16:44,204
>> It's a Sunday morning in
the Chequamegon-nicolet

277
00:16:44,271 --> 00:16:48,008
National Forest in Taylor
County. A drill team out of

278
00:16:48,075 --> 00:16:51,011
Minnesota is making the
final site preparations,

279
00:16:51,078 --> 00:16:53,447
digging a sump pit that
will hold cuttings from the

280
00:16:53,514 --> 00:16:56,950
drilling that is about to
begin. Steve Donahue is on

281
00:16:57,017 --> 00:16:59,119
the board of directors for
Greenlight Metals, the

282
00:16:59,186 --> 00:17:01,355
company behind the
exploratory drilling.

283
00:17:01,421 --> 00:17:05,893
>> And so the drill crew is
getting ready to start

284
00:17:06,460 --> 00:17:09,463
coring the bedrock. Okay.
And that's a hollow barrel

285
00:17:09,530 --> 00:17:13,066
with a diamond impregnated
tip on it. And it just cuts

286
00:17:13,133 --> 00:17:15,135
out a cylinder of the rock
going down.

287
00:17:15,202 --> 00:17:18,438
>> The drill team will cut
ten feet of bedrock. Use

288
00:17:18,505 --> 00:17:21,275
this tip, called a water
swivel, to pull up the core

289
00:17:21,341 --> 00:17:23,410
and repeat.
>> This particular hole

290
00:17:23,477 --> 00:17:26,146
will go down about 1500
feet.

291
00:17:26,547 --> 00:17:29,049
>> Greenlight Field
geologists will then box up

292
00:17:29,116 --> 00:17:31,585
the cores and bring them
back to their facility.

293
00:17:31,652 --> 00:17:36,290
>> They log the geology,
process the core, cut it up

294
00:17:36,356 --> 00:17:39,393
into segments, send it off
to a lab where the lab

295
00:17:39,459 --> 00:17:42,429
tests it for things like
copper and gold and

296
00:17:42,496 --> 00:17:44,565
tellurium.
>> Greenlight metals

297
00:17:44,631 --> 00:17:46,800
conducted exploratory
drilling at the site last

298
00:17:46,867 --> 00:17:48,702
summer.
>> What we're seeing is

299
00:17:48,769 --> 00:17:51,972
about 2 to 3% copper in the
ore, or what we would call.

300
00:17:52,039 --> 00:17:55,742
Or if you look at the
average deposit that's

301
00:17:55,809 --> 00:17:59,012
being mined in the world,
it's maybe half a percent.

302
00:17:59,079 --> 00:18:01,381
>> The site is known as the
bend deposit, and it was

303
00:18:01,448 --> 00:18:04,051
first identified and
explored in the 1980s.

304
00:18:04,117 --> 00:18:07,120
>> So each of these is a
drill hole.

305
00:18:07,187 --> 00:18:08,789
>> Eric Quigley is
Greenlight Metals director

306
00:18:08,856 --> 00:18:12,659
of exploration. A computer
model shows every

307
00:18:12,726 --> 00:18:14,895
exploratory hole drilled at
the site in the last 40

308
00:18:14,962 --> 00:18:17,631
years.
>> That red represents the

309
00:18:17,698 --> 00:18:20,968
copper, you know, primarily
the copper and gold

310
00:18:21,034 --> 00:18:22,636
mineralization that we've
identified.

311
00:18:22,703 --> 00:18:25,506
>> The current drilling is
trying to expand the

312
00:18:25,572 --> 00:18:28,075
picture to see if the
deposit runs deeper than

313
00:18:28,141 --> 00:18:31,378
previously known. The cores
from last summer were

314
00:18:31,445 --> 00:18:34,248
promising. They used a red
marker to circle flecks of

315
00:18:34,314 --> 00:18:37,618
gold in the bedrock.
>> The visible gold within,

316
00:18:37,684 --> 00:18:41,822
I think, is about roughly
two meters, probably

317
00:18:41,889 --> 00:18:45,726
averaging about a third a
third of an ounce per ton,

318
00:18:45,792 --> 00:18:48,428
which is extremely,
extremely high grade

319
00:18:48,495 --> 00:18:50,697
material.
>> They have conservative

320
00:18:50,764 --> 00:18:53,467
projections of what's in
the bend deposit.

321
00:18:53,534 --> 00:18:57,271
>> 4 million tons of ore,
copper grade ore that was

322
00:18:57,337 --> 00:19:00,807
about 1 to 2% copper with
good grades of gold. And

323
00:19:00,874 --> 00:19:03,377
now we're finding tellurium
in there. What we're hoping

324
00:19:03,443 --> 00:19:07,414
to do is to expand the
tonnage of that by drilling

325
00:19:07,481 --> 00:19:10,184
other areas around this
deposit.

326
00:19:10,250 --> 00:19:12,819
>> The results were enough
for Greenlight Metals to

327
00:19:12,886 --> 00:19:16,156
secure another $11 million
in funding from investors

328
00:19:16,223 --> 00:19:19,626
to continue the exploratory
drilling. But that doesn't

329
00:19:19,693 --> 00:19:22,095
mean a mine is coming to
Taylor County in the

330
00:19:22,162 --> 00:19:26,400
immediate future.
>> So we're years away from

331
00:19:27,367 --> 00:19:29,570
ever from being at the
point where we would

332
00:19:29,636 --> 00:19:33,173
actually start the
permitting process with the

333
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,475
DNR and the federal
government on an actual

334
00:19:35,542 --> 00:19:38,078
mine out there.
>> Previous mining

335
00:19:38,145 --> 00:19:41,048
proposals in Wisconsin have
received hostile reactions.

336
00:19:41,114 --> 00:19:43,884
So Greenlight Metals is
being proactive in

337
00:19:43,951 --> 00:19:46,420
community outreach,
presenting updates to

338
00:19:46,486 --> 00:19:48,655
groups like the Westboro
Town Board.

339
00:19:48,722 --> 00:19:51,325
>> We want to be coming in
and talking to you and

340
00:19:51,391 --> 00:19:54,795
other local units of
government, because I think

341
00:19:54,862 --> 00:19:57,397
your input is going to be
important and we want to

342
00:19:57,464 --> 00:20:02,269
factor that in. The public,
I would say, is about 70%

343
00:20:02,836 --> 00:20:06,306
enthusiastic about the
potential. And then there's

344
00:20:06,373 --> 00:20:09,076
another group of people who
obviously have concerns

345
00:20:09,142 --> 00:20:11,512
about what it means for the
environment.

346
00:20:11,578 --> 00:20:14,014
>> I know you guys take
water from the yellow River

347
00:20:14,081 --> 00:20:16,783
to the drilling. What kind?
What is there in the permit

348
00:20:16,850 --> 00:20:19,486
that maintains a minimum
flow in the yellow River?

349
00:20:19,553 --> 00:20:22,189
>> The concerns are
primarily focused on

350
00:20:22,256 --> 00:20:24,992
environmental impact. The
bend deposit is under

351
00:20:25,058 --> 00:20:28,295
national forest land in
just a few hundred yards

352
00:20:28,362 --> 00:20:31,198
from the yellow River.
>> We just keep each other

353
00:20:31,265 --> 00:20:35,402
informed, informed about
the issues. Protecting the

354
00:20:35,469 --> 00:20:37,738
environment.
>> Scott Stalheim and Cathy

355
00:20:37,804 --> 00:20:39,840
Mauer are part of a group
called friends of the

356
00:20:39,907 --> 00:20:41,975
yellow River.
>> I think there should not

357
00:20:42,042 --> 00:20:45,012
be mining in this area for
a lot of those reasons.

358
00:20:45,078 --> 00:20:48,081
That's my personal opinion,
and I think many of the

359
00:20:48,148 --> 00:20:50,284
friends of the yellow River
would feel that way.

360
00:20:50,350 --> 00:20:53,453
>> The group is small and
private, mainly focused on

361
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,323
educating members. An open
question is whether they

362
00:20:56,390 --> 00:20:58,525
should become more public
and vocal.

363
00:20:58,592 --> 00:21:00,427
>> We had quite a few
people with different

364
00:21:00,494 --> 00:21:03,163
opinions.
because it's just

365
00:21:03,630 --> 00:21:06,166
exploratory mining that,
well, it doesn't matter

366
00:21:06,233 --> 00:21:10,537
much. And until a real mine
comes, then we'll start to

367
00:21:10,604 --> 00:21:12,773
worry about it.
>> I think it's a

368
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,743
fundamentally incompatible
land use to have on our

369
00:21:16,810 --> 00:21:19,179
national forest.
>> One group that is

370
00:21:19,246 --> 00:21:21,849
publicly opposing the
drilling is the Wisconsin

371
00:21:21,915 --> 00:21:24,885
chapter of the Sierra Club.
Dave Blouin is the state

372
00:21:24,952 --> 00:21:28,222
mining committee chair.
>> The environment here is

373
00:21:28,288 --> 00:21:33,527
especially water rich, and
that makes it really almost

374
00:21:33,594 --> 00:21:37,431
incompatible with modern
mining, especially metallic

375
00:21:37,497 --> 00:21:40,067
sulfide mining.
>> The issue is the copper

376
00:21:40,133 --> 00:21:43,036
and gold are found within
bedrock heavy with sulfides.

377
00:21:43,103 --> 00:21:45,672
As you can see in the cores
from the bend deposit.

378
00:21:45,739 --> 00:21:49,343
>> There's a very stark
contrast between the

379
00:21:49,409 --> 00:21:53,580
unmineralized rock and the
heavy sulfide content.

380
00:21:53,647 --> 00:21:57,150
>> After the ore is mined,
it has to be processed.

381
00:21:57,217 --> 00:21:59,419
Sulfides in the rock
produce acid when exposed

382
00:21:59,486 --> 00:22:03,056
to air and water.
>> Imagine a finely ground

383
00:22:03,123 --> 00:22:06,793
up, almost powdery waste
material that's that's left

384
00:22:06,860 --> 00:22:09,730
over from the processing to
skim off the metals in the

385
00:22:09,796 --> 00:22:14,034
first place. And you have
this acid producing

386
00:22:14,701 --> 00:22:19,373
material that is chock full
of nasty toxics that if

387
00:22:20,607 --> 00:22:23,544
they get into groundwater
or surface waters or

388
00:22:23,610 --> 00:22:27,581
wetlands, are absolutely
polluting and damaging to

389
00:22:27,648 --> 00:22:31,351
the environment. So this
includes lead, mercury,

390
00:22:31,418 --> 00:22:32,953
arsenic.
>> Most of the

391
00:22:33,020 --> 00:22:35,556
environmental damage from
metallic sulfide mining

392
00:22:35,622 --> 00:22:37,925
comes from leaks at the
tailings facilities

393
00:22:37,991 --> 00:22:41,562
polluting the groundwater.
>> That's an area that has

394
00:22:41,628 --> 00:22:46,333
gone through tremendous
changes in terms of how the

395
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,036
tailings facilities are
managed.

396
00:22:49,102 --> 00:22:51,605
>> This video shows the
processing plant and

397
00:22:51,672 --> 00:22:54,608
tailings facility for the
Eagle Mine, a metallic

398
00:22:54,675 --> 00:22:58,078
sulfide copper mine in the
Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

399
00:22:58,145 --> 00:23:01,014
Donohue says they don't
have designs yet, but a

400
00:23:01,081 --> 00:23:03,584
processing facility in
Wisconsin would have an

401
00:23:03,650 --> 00:23:05,886
engineered liner and a
drainage system and would

402
00:23:05,953 --> 00:23:08,655
be capped at the end of its
lifespan.

403
00:23:08,722 --> 00:23:12,226
>> So it's very analogous
to what you would see for a

404
00:23:12,292 --> 00:23:15,062
municipal waste landfill.
>> He also says the ore

405
00:23:15,128 --> 00:23:18,332
wouldn't be processed in
the national forest. Bend

406
00:23:18,398 --> 00:23:21,301
is one of four deposits
across northern Wisconsin

407
00:23:21,368 --> 00:23:23,737
they would hope to mine,
and the processing and

408
00:23:23,804 --> 00:23:27,241
tailings facility would be
at one centralized location.

409
00:23:27,307 --> 00:23:31,979
>> And that allows us to
then capitalize, create

410
00:23:32,045 --> 00:23:36,483
economies of scale where we
can have a pipeline of

411
00:23:36,550 --> 00:23:40,554
projects that over a
generation or multiple

412
00:23:40,621 --> 00:23:44,157
generations are feeding
into that operation.

413
00:23:44,224 --> 00:23:46,593
>> Blouin says green light
is the fourth company to

414
00:23:46,660 --> 00:23:49,162
explore bend, and each
previous effort has shown

415
00:23:49,229 --> 00:23:52,065
it wasn't economically
viable.

416
00:23:52,132 --> 00:23:57,070
>> The overall deposit at
bend is under 2% copper,

417
00:23:57,137 --> 00:24:01,041
meaning 98% of the material
that comes out is waste.

418
00:24:01,108 --> 00:24:03,911
>> Donohue says a lot has
changed since the last

419
00:24:03,977 --> 00:24:06,580
exploration at bend. For
one, the demand for copper

420
00:24:06,647 --> 00:24:09,249
is up, raising the price
for copper.

421
00:24:09,316 --> 00:24:11,885
>> So there's a lot more
demand in the system

422
00:24:11,952 --> 00:24:15,889
because of things like AI,
electric vehicles building

423
00:24:15,956 --> 00:24:18,458
out the electric grid. It's
going to take a lot of

424
00:24:18,525 --> 00:24:20,294
copper.
>> They've also discovered

425
00:24:20,360 --> 00:24:23,830
a rare earth element called
tellurium, labeled by the

426
00:24:23,897 --> 00:24:26,400
U.S. as critical to the
creation of solar panels.

427
00:24:26,466 --> 00:24:28,936
>> In the drill program
that was completed this

428
00:24:29,002 --> 00:24:34,141
past summer. The assay data
indicated about 340 350g of

429
00:24:36,510 --> 00:24:39,746
tellurium per ton in the
material.

430
00:24:40,414 --> 00:24:43,283
>> The old argument for
mining in Wisconsin focused

431
00:24:43,350 --> 00:24:46,420
on the miner on the flag,
or the need for jobs. But

432
00:24:46,486 --> 00:24:49,790
the new argument is
national security.

433
00:24:49,857 --> 00:24:54,194
>> We're very reliant on
foreign sources for many,

434
00:24:54,261 --> 00:24:57,664
many critical metals. If we
don't want to be dependent

435
00:24:57,731 --> 00:25:00,234
on adversaries for these
critical metals, we're

436
00:25:00,300 --> 00:25:03,804
going to have to do it here
domestically.

437
00:25:03,871 --> 00:25:06,707
national security argument
simply because bend isn't

438
00:25:06,773 --> 00:25:10,711
big enough to factor in.
>> In terms of the amount

439
00:25:10,777 --> 00:25:14,581
of minerals that ore metals
that a bend deposit can

440
00:25:14,648 --> 00:25:19,119
produce, it's not going to
dent or make any real

441
00:25:19,186 --> 00:25:21,622
difference in terms of
national security for the

442
00:25:21,688 --> 00:25:24,258
United States.
>> Blouin understands any

443
00:25:24,324 --> 00:25:27,494
mining permit is years away,
but even the exploratory

444
00:25:27,561 --> 00:25:29,530
drilling comes with
concerns.

445
00:25:29,596 --> 00:25:33,567
>> It's concerning to us
because you know that

446
00:25:33,634 --> 00:25:36,370
potential, and they've
described it as a potential

447
00:25:36,436 --> 00:25:39,673
mining district across
northern Wisconsin is

448
00:25:39,740 --> 00:25:43,043
deeply concerning. Every
potential proposal results

449
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:46,280
in risk to the environment,
to air, to water, to

450
00:25:46,346 --> 00:25:50,150
habitat in multiple
locations forever.

451
00:25:50,617 --> 00:25:52,686
>> Donohue reiterates
there's a lot more drilling

452
00:25:52,753 --> 00:25:56,223
and a lot of studies to go,
but at some point in the

453
00:25:56,290 --> 00:25:59,159
future, the economics will
make the bend deposit

454
00:25:59,226 --> 00:26:00,961
viable.
>> If you look at these

455
00:26:01,028 --> 00:26:04,898
types of belts across the
world, this is one of the

456
00:26:04,965 --> 00:26:08,836
larger undeveloped belts of
its type in the world. So

457
00:26:08,902 --> 00:26:11,905
from that perspective, I
think very confident that

458
00:26:11,972 --> 00:26:15,776
there will be mining again
in Wisconsin.

459
00:26:16,944 --> 00:26:19,146
>> Reporting from Taylor
County. I'm Zac Schultz for

460
00:26:19,213 --> 00:26:22,549
here. And now.
>> For more on this and

461
00:26:23,250 --> 00:26:25,886
other issues facing
Wisconsin, visit our

462
00:26:25,953 --> 00:26:29,323
website at PBS Wisconsin.
Org and then click on the

463
00:26:29,389 --> 00:26:32,092
news tab. That's our
program for tonight I'm

464
00:26:32,159 --> 00:26:36,063
Frederica Freyberg. Have a
good weekend.

465
00:26:44,872 --> 00:26:47,274
>> Funding for "Here& Now"
is provided by the Focus

466
00:26:47,341 --> 00:26:52,012
Fund for Journalism and
Friends of PBS Wisconsin.