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The following program is a
PBS Wisconsin original

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production.
>> Another government

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shutdown averted for now
after immigration

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enforcement tactics leave
communities reeling and

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demanding change.
[MUSIC]

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I'm Frederica Freyberg
tonight on "Here& Now".

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Congresswoman Gwen Moore on
DHS funding and

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accountability for Ice
agents.

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[MUSIC]
one of the candidates for

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Wisconsin Supreme Court and
a report on how small

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communities are pushing
back against big data

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centers. It's "Here& Now"
for February 6th.

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[MUSIC]
>> Funding for "Here& Now"

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is provided by the Focus
Fund for Journalism and

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Friends of PBS Wisconsin.
>> Democrats could block

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funding for Homeland
Security when it expires

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next Friday, unless there
are, in their words,

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dramatic changes to how
immigration operations are

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conducted. This comes in
the aftermath of the deaths

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of two protesters in the
midst of the enforcement

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surge in Minneapolis. In
Wisconsin, all six

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Republican members of
Congress voted this week

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for the stopgap two week
spending plan. Both

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Democratic House members in
Wisconsin voted against,

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including U.S.
Representative Gwen Moore

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of Milwaukee. She joins us
now from Washington. And

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thanks very much for being
here.

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>> Oh, thanks for having me,
Fredricka. Always good to

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be with you.
>> So why did you vote no.

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On the stopgap spending for
Homeland Security?

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>> Well, Frederica, I was
being very consistent. I

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voted against the bill when
it passed the House and

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went on to the Senate. The
Senate, then Senate Dems

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managed to create a
negotiation where they

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split the bills.
Theoretically, five bills

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to pass as is, and the
Homeland security bill to

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have a two week stopgap.
When it came back to the

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House, I truly expected it
to have an opportunity to

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vote on separately on the
other five bills in

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Homeland Security. But I
had exactly one vote, and I

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decided to stick with my
initial vote because of the

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egregious way that these,
you know, you know, rogue

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forces were operating. And
of course, as you mentioned,

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they killed two people. And,
and and further, they've

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jailed children, American
citizens, destroyed

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property and just
terrorized our communities.

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And I just couldn't in good
conscience, knowing that I

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had an opportunity to to to
vote and stick a pin in

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this to, to to not do so.
>> What specifically are

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you and others seeking
around these accountability

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measures for agents that
are part of these

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enforcement activities?
>> Well, thanks for asking

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for me. Really common sense
things. Anything that any

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American would expect, how
they would want to be

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treated as a citizen or not.
First of all, targeted

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enforcement have probable
cause to stop someone, not

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stop someone because they
are speaking Spanish or

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because they look like a
Somali, or they look brown,

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or God forbid that they be
a protester that's exerting

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exerting their First
Amendment rights, and they

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get arrested for that, have
a probable cause. We want

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them to have no masks. I
mean, this is horrifying.

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You know, Frederica, would
any of us tolerate masked

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people not in uniform, but
just dark clothes and

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hoodies to come up and and
and kidnap us require some

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identification. What?
What's wrong with a badge

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and a badge number? We want
state and local oversight

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and coordination in these
arrests. Police in

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Wisconsin have the right to
prosecute Ice officers if

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they are using unreasonable
force. We want body cameras

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being used to record what's
happening, not to track

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people, but to record
what's happening. And

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certainly no paramilitary
police. We want people

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trained as in regular law
enforcement duties and

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standards, and we want them
to have a judicial warrant

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in order to be able to
arrest them, not an

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administrative warrant, not
something that, you know,

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Kim Bondy has drawn up, but
a warrant, a warrant signed

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by a judge.
>> In in terms of judicial

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warrants instead of
administrative warrants.

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I've heard some Republicans
say that the requirement of

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having judges sign off
would cause gridlock in the

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system and dramatically
slow this process. What

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about that?
>> We wouldn't have a snag

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in the system if, in fact,
they were going after the

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people they said they were
going after. Got God bless

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every Ice agent that finds
a rapists and murderers and

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folks like that who have
have breached our borders.

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But to just round people up
and to have a quota so that

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if they see you and I
together, they decide to

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round us up so they can get
their quota that day, none

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of that. They they are
creating the gridlock with

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these aggressive
paramilitary activities.

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>> What are your
expectations for quick

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agreement around these
measures that you call for?

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>> These are not
extraordinary things. I

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mean, these are common
sense things. I mean, some

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of the worst criminals in
the history of this country

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have not been confronted by
agents with masks on and

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hoodies. They have been
arrested, given they're

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told what their rights are
and and they're being

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reassured that they're
being arrested by people

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who have the authority to
do it, and they've been

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arrested because there was
probable cause that they,

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in fact, were the people
that they were seeking, not

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just some. They were not
five year old kids being

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scooped up in order to
manipulate their parents

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into presenting themselves
to be arrested. This is

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common. This is how hard
could it be to come to some

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agreement around common
sense, a common sense

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agenda? Just regular order.
How about regular policing?

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That's what we're asking
for.

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>> I wanted to get your
take on the president

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calling to federalize
elections. Do you think

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Wisconsin, and especially
Milwaukee could be a target

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of that?
>> Well, just let me say

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the Constitution, which the
president seems to readily

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and often infrequently
ignore, says that states

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shall run the elections. So
this is yet another

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unconstitutional thing that
President Trump and his

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sycophants want to do. I am
so happy that Fulton County,

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Georgia, is suing the
president over the seizure,

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the FBI seizure of their
records. And I'm sad to

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think that the Justice
Department, that they are

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appealing to are a bunch of,
you know, Trump cronies.

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But at some point, I hope
that the Supreme Court will

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uphold the 10th Amendment,
the Supremacy Clause, which

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Republicans have often
relied upon for their

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segregation purposes. But
the 10th Amendment clearly

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talks about a couple of
things, like our right, for

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example, to have authority,
resting powers and

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authorities in our
jurisdictions, as well as

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securing our voting
operations.

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>> On another note, you've
also been calling for the

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Wisconsin Supreme Court to
act on congressional

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redistricting. But
resolution isn't at all

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likely ahead of the
midterms, is it?

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>> Oh, absolutely. I would
I am calling on the jurists

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to look at this before our
midterm elections with all

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haste, as we see the
president trying to steal

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the 2026 election. You know,
here we are in a state

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that's 50, 50 Democrat,
Republican. Everybody knows

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that this is the this is
the purplest of the purple

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states. That's why we saw
all the candidates

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congregating here during
the election because this

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was high on this, this this
is a prize to either side.

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And yet in Congress you got
poor men. Park Pocan

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holding it down for the
Democrats. And there is a 6

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to 2. Majority for
Republicans. And you know

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what? In a 5050 state. 6 to
2, the math just ain't math.

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And Frederica.
>> All right, Congresswoman

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Gwen Moore, we leave it
there. Thanks very much.

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>> Thank you.
>> We'll hear from a

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Republican congressional
member on these matters

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next week on this program.
In the race for a seat on

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the Wisconsin Supreme Court.
We are two months away from

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Election Day. The seat is
currently held by

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Conservative Justice
Rebecca Bradley, but she

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decided not to run again.
Liberals currently hold a 4

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to 3 majority, so the
winner of this race will

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not change the balance of
the court. The conservative

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candidate is appellate
Court judge Maria Lazar,

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and the Liberal candidate
is appellate Court Judge

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Chris Taylor. Here and now,
senior political reporter

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Zac Schultz sat down with
each of the candidates

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tonight. We hear from Maria
Lazar.

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>> Well, Judge Lazar,
thanks for coming in today.

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>> Thank you for having me.
>> So let's start with your

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judicial philosophy. How
would you describe it and

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how does it guide you from
the bench?

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>> I describe my philosophy
as originalism with a slice

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of textualism, which means
for those who are not law

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nerds like me, which means
that I look at the

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documents and the laws as
they're written, and I

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interpret them from that
point of view. And if you

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have to go a little bit
outside, I do, but I don't

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go all the way outside to
intent of legislators and

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things like that.
>> So obviously this race

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is now an open seat because
Justice Bradley decided not

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to run again. What was what
was your first thoughts

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when she announced she was
not going to do that?

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>> Well, it was it was a
surprise. My thoughts were

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that I looked at the last
election, and I thought

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that it was so politicized
for the people in the state

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of Wisconsin that I thought
they actually could use a

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judge or a justice like me,
who's someone who is calm,

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judicial, has the
experience and will not

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legislate from the bench.
>> Has she given you any

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guidance? Have you reached
out to her about what it's

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like to run for Supreme
Court?

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of the past justices. I've
talked to anyone who will

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talk to me, and actually
more people talk to me than

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you would think.
to be needed to win this

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race?
>> I'm not positive on that.

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I know it will not be
anywhere close to last year.

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>> So in what way? How is
this different from, I

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guess, the last two races
when control of the court

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was up for grabs?
>> Well, that's one thing.

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I think what I meant by not
being anywhere close, I

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think the numbers were
bigger because it would

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have changed the
composition of the court.

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This time we're talking
about a position that is

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going to be most likely in
the minority, but someone

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who will stand up to be a
strong voice for the common

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sense people of my home
state.

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fundraising totals came out,
and you raised about

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200,000, your opponent
close to 2 million. Some

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people raised their
eyebrows at that. But you

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got into this race after
her and you're trying to, I

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guess, fight your way into
kind of an oxygen starved

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environment when it comes
to fundraising. So what's

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it been like for you?
>> Well, that's true. So I

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started on October 1st. So
I think the numbers

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actually are relatively
good for starting that late.

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Also since January, which
was the cutoff date January

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1st, we've had a big
groundswell of support from

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people who've recognized
and actually heard about

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this race and realize there
is no primary, and they've

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looked at it and they've
said, this is a race and a

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candidate they're
interested in supporting.

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>> So when you look at the
last two elections, has

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that impacted morale for
the number of people paying

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attention to this race, or
perhaps for for people

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getting behind your your
campaign and seeing, well,

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the last two conservative
candidates lost in rather

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large fashion.
>> I don't I don't know if

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it's impacted morale. What
I will say is this, I think

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that the state of
Running and for what reason?

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And when I look at this
race. The reason I am

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running is because I want
to be someone on that court

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who represents the law for
the state of Wisconsin. I

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want to be someone who is
their voice, bringing

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diversity of thought and
and judicial backgrounds

234
00:14:16,123 --> 00:14:18,792
and experience to that
court. I don't look at

235
00:14:18,859 --> 00:14:20,527
those past races as
anything indicative of

236
00:14:20,594 --> 00:14:23,063
what's going to happen. In
fact, I'm kind of hoping

237
00:14:23,130 --> 00:14:25,999
that there's going to be a
line in the sand drawn now

238
00:14:26,066 --> 00:14:28,268
where we can look forward
and say, who's the better

239
00:14:28,335 --> 00:14:30,904
judicial candidate, who has
more experience? And I

240
00:14:30,971 --> 00:14:33,807
think in this race, it's
pretty clear that that's my

241
00:14:33,874 --> 00:14:35,409
candidacy.
>> When when you compare

242
00:14:35,475 --> 00:14:38,078
the records of the two
candidates here, you're

243
00:14:38,145 --> 00:14:40,547
both circuit court judges.
You've both now in the

244
00:14:40,614 --> 00:14:42,616
appellate court. So how do
you explain to the public

245
00:14:42,683 --> 00:14:44,885
that the difference in your
background.

246
00:14:44,952 --> 00:14:47,621
>> Well, numbers, numbers
are the reason. So I spent

247
00:14:47,688 --> 00:14:49,857
20 years in private
practice. I spent five

248
00:14:49,923 --> 00:14:52,059
years at the Department of
Justice representing the

249
00:14:52,125 --> 00:14:55,162
state of Wisconsin. But I
spent seven years in the

250
00:14:55,229 --> 00:14:57,998
circuit court in every
branch criminal, civil,

251
00:14:58,065 --> 00:15:00,067
juvenile, mental
commitments. My opponent

252
00:15:00,133 --> 00:15:02,836
spent two years in criminal.
I've spent four years in

253
00:15:02,903 --> 00:15:05,839
the Court of Appeals,
published many written

254
00:15:05,906 --> 00:15:08,242
opinions. My opponent has
spent two. I think when you

255
00:15:08,308 --> 00:15:10,811
add up the numbers, it's
pretty clear who has the

256
00:15:10,878 --> 00:15:13,247
judicial and legal
experience.

257
00:15:13,313 --> 00:15:15,315
>> Obviously, there's a
pretty high profile race

258
00:15:15,382 --> 00:15:18,051
for governor also kicking
off right now when we talk

259
00:15:18,118 --> 00:15:21,388
about that oxygen
starvation of people paying

260
00:15:21,455 --> 00:15:23,290
attention, how do you cut
through to let people know,

261
00:15:23,357 --> 00:15:25,392
hey, this race is really
important?

262
00:15:25,459 --> 00:15:28,529
>> Well, you're right. So
my race is April, April 7th

263
00:15:28,595 --> 00:15:32,032
and all the other races are
in November. I think since

264
00:15:32,099 --> 00:15:34,301
I've been on the Circuit
court and the Court of

265
00:15:34,368 --> 00:15:37,704
Appeals, I have continually
gone to my 12 counties and

266
00:15:37,771 --> 00:15:40,274
anywhere else, including
Milwaukee, to talk to

267
00:15:40,340 --> 00:15:43,310
people, to talk to high
school kids, college kids

268
00:15:43,377 --> 00:15:46,213
about the courts, about why
it's so important. And I do

269
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,582
that all the time. So I
think this is just a

270
00:15:48,649 --> 00:15:51,385
continuation of telling
people why this race is so

271
00:15:51,451 --> 00:15:54,188
important. It's in April
because it's nonpartisan

272
00:15:54,254 --> 00:15:57,891
and it's in April because
that's how Wisconsin

273
00:15:57,958 --> 00:15:59,860
legislature has determined
it to be.

274
00:15:59,927 --> 00:16:03,163
>> We've seen in the past
couple of races, candidates

275
00:16:03,230 --> 00:16:06,733
talk more about their own
personal values versus

276
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,102
issues. And that's that's a
change compared to races in

277
00:16:09,169 --> 00:16:12,573
prior decades. How are you
talking about your values

278
00:16:12,639 --> 00:16:15,475
versus issues, and what
does that mean to the

279
00:16:15,542 --> 00:16:18,679
public when they're
hear maybe more, more clues

280
00:16:18,745 --> 00:16:21,582
to what you actually feel
or how you might rule, even

281
00:16:21,648 --> 00:16:23,350
though that's obviously not
what you're supposed to be

282
00:16:23,417 --> 00:16:26,587
talking about.
things that are really

283
00:16:26,653 --> 00:16:28,722
important. So how I might
rule is never an issue. And

284
00:16:28,789 --> 00:16:31,525
no judge, no justice, no
candidate should ever say

285
00:16:31,592 --> 00:16:33,760
that. But we've looked at
the rules and we've looked

286
00:16:33,827 --> 00:16:35,963
at the ethical rules, and
we've determined that it's

287
00:16:36,029 --> 00:16:39,066
possible to tell the state
of Wisconsin more

288
00:16:39,132 --> 00:16:42,202
information about where I
stand, what I stand up for,

289
00:16:42,269 --> 00:16:46,106
and what issues I believe
are important and how I

290
00:16:46,173 --> 00:16:49,810
view the law, how I
interpret the law, what my

291
00:16:49,877 --> 00:16:53,113
philosophies are. So on my
website, you can go there.

292
00:16:53,180 --> 00:16:57,017
Judge Maria Lazar com, you
can go there. And it has my

293
00:16:57,084 --> 00:16:59,686
positions on important
issues that are set there,

294
00:16:59,753 --> 00:17:02,055
written in Black and white
so people can see it, can

295
00:17:02,122 --> 00:17:05,592
see what I stand for. I
don't say how I will rule

296
00:17:05,659 --> 00:17:08,896
on a case, but I say what I
believe is important.

297
00:17:08,962 --> 00:17:11,231
>> Is that frustrating when
you when you speak to

298
00:17:11,298 --> 00:17:13,867
people that are potentially
voters who they want to

299
00:17:13,934 --> 00:17:16,103
hear more, they want to
hear you talk like a

300
00:17:16,170 --> 00:17:18,205
politician because they
they think of these races

301
00:17:18,272 --> 00:17:20,107
more political as opposed
to an independent judicial

302
00:17:20,174 --> 00:17:22,142
race.
>> They do. And in some,

303
00:17:22,209 --> 00:17:24,545
some respects, I'll go
places where there will be

304
00:17:24,611 --> 00:17:26,513
politicians speaking. And
it's always that

305
00:17:26,580 --> 00:17:29,149
interesting dichotomy
between the calm demeanor

306
00:17:29,216 --> 00:17:31,618
of a judge versus the
politician who's yelling at

307
00:17:31,685 --> 00:17:34,254
the room and screaming at
everybody. But I think

308
00:17:34,321 --> 00:17:36,723
that's what people want.
They want their judges not

309
00:17:36,790 --> 00:17:39,726
to be someone who's yelling
with their hair on fire in

310
00:17:39,793 --> 00:17:42,696
the room. They want someone
they think they would like

311
00:17:42,763 --> 00:17:46,366
to have adjudicate their
cases. So when I go and

312
00:17:46,433 --> 00:17:48,869
talk to people, I explain
to them that I can't tell

313
00:17:48,936 --> 00:17:52,539
them how I'll rule on case
A versus B, but I do tell

314
00:17:52,606 --> 00:17:55,342
them, here's how I rule,
here's how I respect people

315
00:17:55,409 --> 00:17:58,011
in my court, here's what I
think of victims rights,

316
00:17:58,078 --> 00:18:00,781
those sort of things. I
think that gets across to

317
00:18:00,848 --> 00:18:03,350
people. They recognize that
there are certain limits

318
00:18:03,417 --> 00:18:05,419
and that we're bound by
those limits, or we should

319
00:18:05,485 --> 00:18:07,888
be.
precedent, you've mentioned

320
00:18:07,955 --> 00:18:10,757
a couple of times that if
you win, you would be in

321
00:18:10,824 --> 00:18:12,960
the minority. But that's
not a forever thing. As

322
00:18:13,026 --> 00:18:15,629
we've seen, the court can
change what is the standard

323
00:18:15,696 --> 00:18:17,898
when it comes to overruling
precedent. Well.

324
00:18:17,965 --> 00:18:20,834
>> So people have to
understand that its

325
00:18:20,901 --> 00:18:23,070
precedent means that you
don't. Just because the

326
00:18:23,136 --> 00:18:26,240
court changes composition,
you don't necessarily go

327
00:18:26,306 --> 00:18:29,877
back and then revisit
things you've just done.

328
00:18:29,943 --> 00:18:32,412
Precedent is that you
respect, you give stereo

329
00:18:32,479 --> 00:18:35,382
decisis. Its a credit, and
it's a benefit to cases

330
00:18:35,449 --> 00:18:39,653
that have been done. And
you give them time to maybe

331
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,457
air to be to be looked at.
When courts have overturned

332
00:18:43,524 --> 00:18:46,026
precedent, the US Supreme
Court in general, it's

333
00:18:46,093 --> 00:18:48,695
something that's maybe 20,
30 years down the road.

334
00:18:48,762 --> 00:18:52,232
It's not something that
they just do willy nilly as

335
00:18:52,299 --> 00:18:55,369
as Scalia would say, it's
something that you have to

336
00:18:55,435 --> 00:18:58,305
have seen that it doesn't
work. You can't just say,

337
00:18:58,372 --> 00:19:00,541
I'm now the member of the
majority. So everything

338
00:19:00,607 --> 00:19:03,644
that was done, I get to
undo. That's not how courts

339
00:19:03,710 --> 00:19:06,780
work. We need to restore
the respect and integrity

340
00:19:06,847 --> 00:19:09,950
in those courts and have
them move forward and not

341
00:19:10,017 --> 00:19:12,085
always be looking back to
things that they want to

342
00:19:12,152 --> 00:19:14,054
change.
>> And finally, will you

343
00:19:14,121 --> 00:19:16,023
seek Donald Trump's
endorsement? We saw Brad

344
00:19:16,089 --> 00:19:18,425
Schimel go out and ask for
that towards the end of his

345
00:19:18,492 --> 00:19:20,827
campaign.
endorsements of anyone

346
00:19:20,894 --> 00:19:23,564
who's out of the state of
Wisconsin. If someone looks

347
00:19:23,630 --> 00:19:25,933
at my campaign and they
agree with my vision, my

348
00:19:25,999 --> 00:19:28,468
idea that we need to
restore justice and

349
00:19:28,535 --> 00:19:30,671
integrity to the Wisconsin
State Supreme Court, I

350
00:19:30,737 --> 00:19:32,739
would welcome the
discussion. But I'm not

351
00:19:32,806 --> 00:19:34,641
seeking anything.
>> All right. Judge Lazar,

352
00:19:34,708 --> 00:19:37,110
thanks for your time.
>> Thank you very much. It

353
00:19:37,177 --> 00:19:40,047
was a pleasure.
>> A large scale data

354
00:19:40,113 --> 00:19:43,317
center in the village of
DeForest was rejected this

355
00:19:43,383 --> 00:19:47,187
week. It's an example of
the push pull between local

356
00:19:47,254 --> 00:19:50,290
communities and tech
companies, with their ever

357
00:19:50,357 --> 00:19:53,894
increasing demands to store
and process huge amounts of

358
00:19:53,961 --> 00:19:57,331
data, especially in the age
of artificial intelligence.

359
00:19:57,397 --> 00:20:00,868
As Steven Potter reports,
opposition from DeForest

360
00:20:00,934 --> 00:20:04,204
residents left the village
board with a difficult

361
00:20:04,271 --> 00:20:07,574
decision to announce.
>> Some of you might feel

362
00:20:07,641 --> 00:20:10,777
very victorious tonight.
Others are feeling a great

363
00:20:10,844 --> 00:20:13,247
loss.
>> When residents in the

364
00:20:13,313 --> 00:20:15,516
DeForest area first heard
that a large scale data

365
00:20:15,582 --> 00:20:18,185
center was being planned
for farmland just outside

366
00:20:18,252 --> 00:20:21,088
their village. They were
not happy about it.

367
00:20:21,154 --> 00:20:24,091
>> I picked this spot 40
years ago to live because

368
00:20:24,157 --> 00:20:28,161
it was so remote. I never
thought we'd be faced with

369
00:20:28,228 --> 00:20:31,498
something like this.
>> Nancy Roth was one of

370
00:20:31,565 --> 00:20:34,701
the residents who opposed
the sprawling 1600 acre and

371
00:20:34,768 --> 00:20:37,571
$12 billion development
proposed by technology

372
00:20:37,638 --> 00:20:41,175
company data centers. They
worried that the data

373
00:20:41,241 --> 00:20:43,911
center may damage natural
resources and tear apart

374
00:20:43,977 --> 00:20:47,014
the tranquility of their
rural landscape.

375
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,316
>> We want to live in a
farming community, not next

376
00:20:49,383 --> 00:20:52,519
to a concrete walled data
center.

377
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,190
>> So Roth and others went
to work. They organized

378
00:20:56,256 --> 00:20:59,660
residents printed yard
signs, created an online

379
00:20:59,726 --> 00:21:02,629
community, and voiced their
opposition at numerous town

380
00:21:02,696 --> 00:21:05,799
and village board meetings.
And just this week, after

381
00:21:05,866 --> 00:21:08,302
months of expressing their
outrage.

382
00:21:08,368 --> 00:21:11,505
>> We're at a point where
we can finally make a vote.

383
00:21:11,572 --> 00:21:13,574
>> Those opposed to the
DeForest Data Center were

384
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,343
able to claim victory when
the village board voted

385
00:21:16,410 --> 00:21:19,713
unanimously against the
data center plan.

386
00:21:19,780 --> 00:21:22,416
>> Yes, to reject AQ.
>> With that rejection of

387
00:21:22,482 --> 00:21:25,919
the proposal from the
village of DeForest has now

388
00:21:25,986 --> 00:21:28,755
formally withdrawn from the
project. This kind of

389
00:21:28,822 --> 00:21:30,991
conflict, which hinges on
the local control of land

390
00:21:31,058 --> 00:21:34,228
and resources, has been
repeating itself around the

391
00:21:34,294 --> 00:21:37,397
state. Here's what happens.
A large scale data center

392
00:21:37,464 --> 00:21:40,934
gets proposed. Residents
get upset and voice their

393
00:21:41,001 --> 00:21:43,637
opposition. And then local
officials take notice of

394
00:21:43,704 --> 00:21:47,841
the outrage and put an end
to the project. Or the data

395
00:21:47,908 --> 00:21:51,445
center company itself
decides to pull out. Other

396
00:21:51,512 --> 00:21:53,947
proposed data centers that
have been nixed recently

397
00:21:54,014 --> 00:21:56,416
include one in Brown County
and another in Racine

398
00:21:56,483 --> 00:21:59,186
County, and the city
councils of both Menominee

399
00:21:59,253 --> 00:22:02,322
and Madison have passed
restrictions on data

400
00:22:02,389 --> 00:22:05,425
centers being built there.
>> The data center industry,

401
00:22:05,492 --> 00:22:08,996
especially at this scale,
it's new, right? And any

402
00:22:09,062 --> 00:22:12,766
time there's something of
this magnitude that's new,

403
00:22:12,833 --> 00:22:15,936
it's scary.
>> Tricia Braun is with the

404
00:22:16,003 --> 00:22:18,071
Wisconsin Data Center
Coalition, which advocates

405
00:22:18,138 --> 00:22:21,175
for these developments to
boost the state's economy.

406
00:22:21,241 --> 00:22:23,277
She says that our ever
growing need for more

407
00:22:23,343 --> 00:22:25,646
information, more
entertainment and more

408
00:22:25,712 --> 00:22:28,081
innovation, including and
especially with the use of

409
00:22:28,148 --> 00:22:31,351
artificial intelligence, is
what's driving demand.

410
00:22:31,418 --> 00:22:33,754
>> Whether you're on your
phone, your live streaming

411
00:22:33,820 --> 00:22:36,757
TV, your manufacturer
that's automating your

412
00:22:36,823 --> 00:22:39,226
processes, your regular
company that just decides

413
00:22:39,293 --> 00:22:42,829
to move its server offline
or to the cloud, all of

414
00:22:42,896 --> 00:22:45,065
that needs to be stored
somewhere. That's where

415
00:22:45,132 --> 00:22:47,868
data centers come in.
>> Some large scale data

416
00:22:47,935 --> 00:22:50,370
centers house only one
company, which is the case

417
00:22:50,437 --> 00:22:52,372
for the Beaver Dam Data
Center being built right

418
00:22:52,439 --> 00:22:55,943
now by meta and the
Microsoft Data Center,

419
00:22:56,009 --> 00:22:59,112
under construction in Mount
Pleasant. But Braun says

420
00:22:59,179 --> 00:23:01,548
smaller and midsize
companies are clients, too.

421
00:23:01,615 --> 00:23:04,184
>> Whether it's insurance
companies, financial

422
00:23:04,251 --> 00:23:06,920
institutions, just general
businesses can be some of

423
00:23:06,987 --> 00:23:09,456
these tenants when it comes
to something that is

424
00:23:09,523 --> 00:23:12,993
changing this fast. And as
you know, we're all doing

425
00:23:13,060 --> 00:23:16,096
more with technology every
day. The demand is

426
00:23:16,163 --> 00:23:17,497
increasing.
>> According to research

427
00:23:17,564 --> 00:23:19,766
from the Brookings
Institute, there are more

428
00:23:19,833 --> 00:23:22,803
than 5000 data centers
operating in the United

429
00:23:22,870 --> 00:23:26,406
States. That's ten times
more than any other country.

430
00:23:26,473 --> 00:23:29,209
There are around 50 data
centers here in Wisconsin,

431
00:23:29,276 --> 00:23:31,879
at least for now. But if
technology companies get

432
00:23:31,945 --> 00:23:34,781
their way, there may be
several more of them here

433
00:23:34,848 --> 00:23:37,050
soon. And some of them will
be the hyperscale sized

434
00:23:37,117 --> 00:23:40,754
data centers that span
hundreds of acres and cost

435
00:23:40,821 --> 00:23:44,057
billions of dollars. Data
center companies find

436
00:23:44,124 --> 00:23:46,827
Wisconsin appealing because
of available land, energy,

437
00:23:46,894 --> 00:23:50,464
and a favorable,
particularly cooler climate.

438
00:23:50,531 --> 00:23:53,000
Currently, data centers are
being proposed in Rock

439
00:23:53,066 --> 00:23:56,537
County, Ozaukee County,
Wood County, and Kenosha

440
00:23:56,603 --> 00:24:00,140
County, and although Qt's
withdrew its bid for

441
00:24:00,207 --> 00:24:02,242
DeForest, the company says
they may explore other

442
00:24:02,309 --> 00:24:05,379
locations in Wisconsin.
>> I think digital

443
00:24:05,445 --> 00:24:07,948
infrastructure is critical
to our economy and critical

444
00:24:08,015 --> 00:24:10,918
to national security, and
it has to get built

445
00:24:10,984 --> 00:24:12,853
somewhere.
>> State lawmakers are also

446
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,455
getting involved in data
center regulation.

447
00:24:15,522 --> 00:24:18,525
>> We need to be
competitive in this space.

448
00:24:18,592 --> 00:24:20,761
>> Mark Born, a Republican
in the state assembly,

449
00:24:20,827 --> 00:24:23,730
represents Beaver Dam,
where social media company

450
00:24:23,797 --> 00:24:27,000
meta is building a $1
billion, 700 zero zero zero

451
00:24:27,067 --> 00:24:30,437
square foot data center.
>> This is the future. And

452
00:24:30,504 --> 00:24:32,906
why shouldn't Wisconsin
communities benefit from

453
00:24:32,973 --> 00:24:34,842
some of the economic
development that comes from

454
00:24:34,908 --> 00:24:37,144
that?
>> While he is in favor of

455
00:24:37,211 --> 00:24:39,446
these developments, Bourne
also wants to make sure

456
00:24:39,513 --> 00:24:41,481
that data centers don't
lead to higher electrical

457
00:24:41,548 --> 00:24:44,151
bills for local residents
and that the state's water

458
00:24:44,218 --> 00:24:47,254
supply is protected. He's a
lead author of legislation

459
00:24:47,321 --> 00:24:49,823
that aims to regulate data
centers.

460
00:24:49,890 --> 00:24:51,758
>> Ratepayers should be
protected. We should be

461
00:24:51,825 --> 00:24:54,461
protecting our natural
resources.

462
00:24:54,528 --> 00:24:56,463
>> Democratic State
Representative Angela

463
00:24:56,530 --> 00:24:59,499
Stroud of Ashland, says the
Republican bill doesn't go

464
00:24:59,566 --> 00:25:02,202
far enough. She wants to
see more rules around

465
00:25:02,269 --> 00:25:05,973
renewable energy fees and
labor. And if data center

466
00:25:06,039 --> 00:25:09,109
developers don't meet those
requirements.

467
00:25:09,176 --> 00:25:12,079
not be well suited for the
state. And I think we

468
00:25:12,145 --> 00:25:15,015
should be willing to admit
that and say, fine, then

469
00:25:15,082 --> 00:25:17,951
we're not the place for you.
But if we can achieve those

470
00:25:18,018 --> 00:25:19,987
things, which we can with
smart regulation, we need

471
00:25:20,053 --> 00:25:21,822
to get something done.
>> Regulation is a sticky

472
00:25:21,889 --> 00:25:25,025
topic for data center
proponents.

473
00:25:25,092 --> 00:25:29,429
very careful about what is
put into place as far as

474
00:25:29,496 --> 00:25:32,699
rules, restrictions,
regulations to make sure

475
00:25:32,766 --> 00:25:35,435
that those unintended
consequences aren't an

476
00:25:35,502 --> 00:25:38,138
overall detriment to future
development.

477
00:25:38,205 --> 00:25:40,507
>> While the future of data
centers in Wisconsin

478
00:25:40,574 --> 00:25:43,944
remains a case by case
situation, proponents say

479
00:25:44,011 --> 00:25:47,548
the need for more and more
computing power and data

480
00:25:47,614 --> 00:25:50,684
storage is undeniable. But
for now, it remains an

481
00:25:50,751 --> 00:25:53,687
exercise in compromise
between data center

482
00:25:53,754 --> 00:25:56,857
developers, local residents,
municipal government and

483
00:25:56,924 --> 00:26:01,695
state lawmakers. Reporting
from DeForest. I'm Steven

484
00:26:01,762 --> 00:26:05,832
Potter for "Here& Now".
>> For more on this and

485
00:26:05,899 --> 00:26:08,435
other issues facing
Wisconsin, visit our

486
00:26:08,502 --> 00:26:12,706
website at PBS Wisconsin
and then click on the news

487
00:26:12,773 --> 00:26:15,342
tab. That's our program for
tonight I'm Frederica

488
00:26:15,409 --> 00:26:18,312
Freyberg. Have a good
weekend.

489
00:26:26,253 --> 00:26:27,921
.

490
00:26:44,471 --> 00:26:46,974
>> Funding for "Here& Now"
is provided by the Focus

491
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:51,712
Fund for Journalism and
Friends of PBS Wisconsin.