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The following program is a
PBS Wisconsin original

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production.
>> Wisconsin's US senators

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are of two minds over
military incursions in

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Venezuela. Following a vote
on a resolution saying

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President Trump exceeded
his authority.

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[MUSIC]
I'm Frederica Freyberg.

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Tonight on "Here& Now", Zac
Schultz speaks with

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Assembly leadership on what
to expect in 2026. State

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public defenders sound the
alarm over juvenile justice

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practices and how the
federal hemp ban will

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impact a growing Wisconsin
industry. It's "Here& Now"

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for January 9th.
[MUSIC]

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>> Funding for "Here& Now"
is provided by the Focus

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Fund for Journalism and
Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

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>> The shooting death of a
37 year old mother by an

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Ice agent in Minneapolis
this week leaves a

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devastated family and
cities roiled in protest,

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alongside defense of the
Homeland Security sweep and

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its officers. It also
brings response and

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reaction from the streets
to the highest office.

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Wisconsin Democratic U.S.
Senator Tammy Baldwin said,

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this is a tragedy, and I'm
thinking of our neighbors

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to the West. We need an
investigation into this

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incident and accountability.
But this we do know Trump

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is sending in mass agents
into our neighborhoods, is

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causing chaos and is not
making our communities any

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safer. Republican U.S.
Senator Ron Johnson said on

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late this week. It's a
tragedy all the way around.

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I think what I would like
to see is that the elected

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officials stop inciting
people to impede lawful

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operations. Don't obstruct
justice. Don't put yourself

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at risk. It didn't have to
happen. While 2026 is just

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underway, the legislative
session at the Capitol is

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almost over. The Republican
floor calendar says the

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final days for general
business are in March, with

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members shifting their
focus to the fall elections

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after that. Here and now,
senior political reporter

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Zac Schultz sat down with
Assembly Speaker Robin Vos

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and Minority Leader Greta
Neubauer to talk about what

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they hope to accomplish.
Now, these are condensed

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versions of those
interviews. You can find

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the full length interviews
on our web page under the

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news tab at PBS Wisconsin.
>> Greta Neubauer, thanks

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for joining us.
>> Absolutely happy to be

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here.
that's come out of the

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Assembly recently is the
failure to expand

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for for new mothers. Walk
me through the process of

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what happened there and why
it came to be, especially

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since it did so well in the
Senate.

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we have known that it is
essential for us to pass

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postpartum health care
expansion for those new

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moms. Right now in
Wisconsin, you can have a

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baby and be off of your
health care in 60 days.

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That's not good for the mom
and that's not good for the

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baby. And there are people
each year whose health is

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really put at risk because
they don't have access to

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that essential care after
they give birth. So we have

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been pushing on this issue
for a long time. There are

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enough co-sponsors by far
in the state Assembly to

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get this bill done, but it
does not get brought to the

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floor. And that, of course,
is Speaker Vos's decision.

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We attempted to pull a
petition that would have

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forced a vote on this issue,
and the speaker did move

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the bill in a procedural
sort of maneuver into

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another committee so that
we have to restart that

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process. But really, the
question that I have is why

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the authors of this bill,
Pat Snyder, Jesse Rodriguez,

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people who say that this is
an important issue for them

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are not able to get this
bill to the floor. And what

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they're going to say to
those new moms in their

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district who lose access to
health care. They're

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governing their authors of
this bill. They should be

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able to get it done.
>> Other than that

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legislation, what's the
most important thing you'd

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like to try and get done
next year, whether it's

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still a few months of
session?

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affordability. As I said,
this is what we hear about

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from our constituents.
Assembly Democrats are

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continuing to do listening
sessions and knock on doors.

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We, of course, run into our
constituents at parades and

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holiday festivals. And we
hear over and over that

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people are struggling with
the cost of groceries again,

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prescription drugs and
health care and housing.

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There's been a little bit
of progress on housing in a

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bipartisan fashion in the
last two sessions. That's

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good to see. But we have
not done enough. And so

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we're really going to be
continuing to push on those

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issues and making sure that
the state keeps its

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commitment to our kids and
our public schools and get

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some funding into the
general aides so that we

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don't see property taxes go
up for people across the

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state to support their
schools.

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>> You've been in the
Assembly for a while. Would

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you say that this was a
quieter year than past

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sessions, in terms of the
amount of legislation

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coming forward that
actually can get passed?

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>> You know, it's been a
bit quieter. Yeah, I would

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say, especially given what
we see people going through

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in our state, we see
significant impacts of the

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federal government's
actions on Wisconsinites,

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and we see the legislature
really doing very little to

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address those impacts.
We're about to see people's

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health care premiums
skyrocket. If you're on the

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marketplace in Wisconsin,
the average increase is

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going to be $664 a month.
And legislative Republicans

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really have no answer to
that. The Senate

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Republicans in particular
have met very few times

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this year. So it does seem
like they've kind of run

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out of ideas, and they're
not really interested in

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addressing the problems
that the people of

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Wisconsin are facing.
>> Well, that obviously

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leads us into next year and
the elections. How much

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will Democrats be able to
convince the public that

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the legislature has done
anything? It's time for new

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leadership.
>> Republicans have been in

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control in Wisconsin for a
while. They have had this

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chamber for 15 years. The
state assembly, and we have

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seen them attempt to enact
their vision on the state

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of Wisconsin. And we've got
local schools across the

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state that are at risk of
closing. We've got local

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governments really
struggling to fund

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essential services,
including public safety and

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and health. We are in a
tough place in this state,

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and we know that people are
frustrated with government

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and with politics, and they
just want to see their

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elected officials care
about what they're going

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through and work hard
across the aisle to get

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things done. We just have
not seen that from

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legislative Republicans.
And so I think we have a

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huge opportunity next year
to communicate directly

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with the people of
Wisconsin about what we're

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going to do when we are in
control as Democrats in the

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state House, and how it's
going to make their lives

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better.
>> Obviously, you gained a

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lot of seats in the 24
elections, but you fell

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short of regaining the
majority. There were some

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close elections. I'm sure
you know what seats you're

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going to target. What will
be different in 26?

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>> Yeah. So we work to pick
up 15 seats last year. And

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that, of course, was a big
lift. That's in addition to

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protecting our incumbents
and close seats, including

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some that Trump wins. So we
have five seats now left to

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go to flip control of the
state assembly. That's a

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close number. We're looking
at a good environment next

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year because people are
pretty unhappy with federal

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Republicans and state
Republicans. And so we're

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going to have great
candidates who are going to

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work hard throughout the
next year to connect

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directly with voters and
communicate their vision

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for the state. These are
parents and teachers,

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coaches, local elected
officials, small business

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owners, farmers, DNR
wardens. Right. Just

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fantastic folks who are
going to do the work of

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communicating that things
can be better in this state

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and that they want to go to
Madison and really

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represent them. So we're
really excited about the

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elections next year. We're
thrilled with the

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candidates who are stepping
up to run, and we are just

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going to work every day to
talk directly to those

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folks who will need to win
over for next year.

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>> Do you plan on getting
involved in the

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gubernatorial primary?
>> Not at this point. I

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generally don't get
involved in Democratic

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primaries, but we have a
really fantastic field. I

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think many people who could
be great governors.

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>> Speaker Vos, thanks for
your time again. One of the

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more recent headlines out
of the Assembly had to do

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with expanding health care
for women through Medicaid.

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That's got a lot of support
in the Senate. There are

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Republican co-sponsors.
Walk me through your

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process for your caucus of
when there are Republicans

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that support it, but it
doesn't come to the floor.

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>> Sure. So we have a rule
that by and large, things

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get to the floor as long as
they have 50 Republican

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votes. We work really hard
to get there. The vast

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majority of things do.
Sometimes it takes a little

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longer to find out what
changes have to be made, or

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how do we address the
issues that people have

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concerns with. One of the
concerns that I have is

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putting more people onto
welfare is not something

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that is sustainable for
taxpayers in the long run.

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We have done a very good
job over the course of the

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past decade, as other
states have seen increases

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in their welfare spending.
We've kept ours flat. We've

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found other ways to address
healthcare challenges.

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Remember, in the budget, we
had a bipartisan agreement

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on a hospital assessment
that actually brings in

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almost $1 billion into
Wisconsin to help lower

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health care costs. I would
much rather focus on

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lowering health care costs
for everyone, as opposed to

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putting a few more people
onto welfare that all of us

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are going to pay for.
>> There has been some

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success over the last few
years of actually working

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with Governor Evers to pass
some bigger bills. Do you

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think there's room for one
more?

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>> I'm always open to
compromise in finding an

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answer. I mean, we're
working together on this

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idea of Snap benefits right
now. We believe that, you

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know, kind of like what's
happened in almost a dozen

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other states around the
country. It's crazy to have

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taxpayers paying for junk
food when you're on food

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stamps. We think we should
be able to restrict those

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to healthier options. He'd
like to have more money

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going into helping
administer the program

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under the big Beautiful
bill. There were some

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changes in how we
administered it. We like

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the work requirements in
the bill, so if we can do

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that in a way that reduces
fraud, hopefully that's an

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area we can find consensus.
My hope is we can do that

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in the spring. But you're
right, there are other

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areas that we are more than
willing to sit at the table

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and find that consensus,
but we're not going to give

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up our principles. And I
respect the fact he doesn't

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want to either.
have already shifted to

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looking at the election
next year. What's the

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recruitment process look
like when you've got a lot

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of competitive seats out
there?

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>> Yeah, I mean, it's
really no different than

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it's been for the past 30
or 40 years. We've always

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had a competitive map in
Wisconsin. We've been

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successful because we
are locally based, and they

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focus on the issues that
matter to Wisconsinites. As

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I look at what's happening
in the governor's race, I

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watch the Democrats go
farther and farther to the

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left. Their entire campaign
is focused on one person,

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not the average mom or dad
in Wausau or Rhinelander or

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Eau Claire, but they're
focused on Donald Trump.

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And I think most people are
sick and tired of having an

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argument about one person.
They want to see results.

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So I think our candidates
are going to talk about

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affordability. How do we
make things better for the

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00:10:54,855 --> 00:10:56,857
average family? We're going
to bring up a bill this

233
00:10:56,924 --> 00:10:58,892
spring that focuses on
putting more money back

234
00:10:58,959 --> 00:11:00,861
into the pockets of
Wisconsinites. We're going

235
00:11:00,928 --> 00:11:02,963
to focus on property taxes
because they're way too

236
00:11:03,030 --> 00:11:05,799
high. And ultimately, we're
going to try to make sure

237
00:11:05,866 --> 00:11:07,935
we have good programs that
can build a social safety

238
00:11:08,001 --> 00:11:10,604
net, but in a way that
encourages people to get

239
00:11:10,671 --> 00:11:12,472
off of it and doesn't
become a hammock.

240
00:11:12,539 --> 00:11:15,442
>> Do you plan on running
again?

241
00:11:15,943 --> 00:11:17,945
that process. My wife and I
talked about it already, so

242
00:11:18,011 --> 00:11:20,047
I'll make a decision
sometime, like I normally

243
00:11:20,113 --> 00:11:22,950
do in January or February.
>> Do you plan on getting

244
00:11:23,016 --> 00:11:24,818
involved in the governor's
primary at all? On the

245
00:11:24,885 --> 00:11:26,987
Republican side.
>> Now we have two good

246
00:11:27,054 --> 00:11:29,122
candidates at this point.
There certainly could be

247
00:11:29,189 --> 00:11:32,025
more that enter in. I feel
like either one of the two

248
00:11:32,092 --> 00:11:34,161
candidates that we already
have are exceptionally good

249
00:11:34,228 --> 00:11:36,797
leaders. They both have to
focus on what matters to

250
00:11:36,864 --> 00:11:38,765
Wisconsinites, and that is
affordability, cost of

251
00:11:38,832 --> 00:11:40,734
housing, making sure that
we have reasonable taxes

252
00:11:40,801 --> 00:11:43,737
and ultimately deliver
The Democrats are kind of

253
00:11:43,804 --> 00:11:45,906
running to the far left,
the candidates that they

254
00:11:45,973 --> 00:11:48,075
have, a bunch of people
who've run before and lost.

255
00:11:48,141 --> 00:11:50,711
I don't know if that's the
most successful way for

256
00:11:50,777 --> 00:11:52,980
them to win, but I guess
only time will tell.

257
00:11:53,046 --> 00:11:55,849
>> Do you think that the
average voter will be

258
00:11:55,916 --> 00:11:57,784
focused more on what's
happening in Washington and

259
00:11:57,851 --> 00:12:00,053
the federal impacts, or do
you think they will be

260
00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,890
focused on what the state
legislature can do for them?

261
00:12:02,956 --> 00:12:05,692
>> Well, it's one of the
rare times where the only

262
00:12:05,759 --> 00:12:07,861
race on the ballot are
state races. Besides our

263
00:12:07,928 --> 00:12:09,897
congressional seats, which
are up every two years, a

264
00:12:09,963 --> 00:12:12,966
lot of times you'll have a
congressional race, a

265
00:12:13,033 --> 00:12:15,135
gubernatorial at the same
time. So federal issues

266
00:12:15,202 --> 00:12:17,905
really overwhelm us. This
time around. We get to talk

267
00:12:17,971 --> 00:12:19,973
about more of Wisconsin
issues, and I think we have

268
00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,776
done a really good job of
addressing issues that

269
00:12:22,843 --> 00:12:24,945
people in Wisconsin care
about. We had a bipartisan

270
00:12:25,012 --> 00:12:27,014
housing package. We are
going to be bringing up

271
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:28,982
some issues dealing with
utility costs in the spring,

272
00:12:29,049 --> 00:12:31,885
which I know are a big
hassle for people. We're

273
00:12:31,952 --> 00:12:33,887
going to focus on property
taxes. We've dealt with

274
00:12:33,954 --> 00:12:36,790
crime in many ways, so I
think we've done a good job,

275
00:12:36,857 --> 00:12:39,092
but there's always more
>> All right. Speaker Vos,

276
00:12:39,159 --> 00:12:43,730
thanks for your time.
state mandated deadline to

277
00:12:46,033 --> 00:12:49,203
close them has long since
passed and been extended.

278
00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:52,039
They're to be replaced with
a new youth prison in

279
00:12:52,105 --> 00:12:55,375
Milwaukee, set to open this
year, and county based

280
00:12:55,442 --> 00:12:57,978
secure residential care
centers. The footage you're

281
00:12:58,045 --> 00:13:01,715
about to see could be
disturbing. Just after the

282
00:13:01,782 --> 00:13:04,651
first such care center
opened in Racine County

283
00:13:04,718 --> 00:13:07,588
last spring, the state
public defender's office

284
00:13:07,654 --> 00:13:12,226
learned of an incident
shown on camera. Where a 15

285
00:13:12,926 --> 00:13:16,263
year old housed in the
Jonathan Delagrave Youth

286
00:13:16,330 --> 00:13:19,833
Development and Care Center
was punched repeatedly by

287
00:13:19,900 --> 00:13:23,403
adult security workers.
Staff was asking the boy to

288
00:13:23,470 --> 00:13:26,940
return to his room and he
can be heard saying, don't

289
00:13:27,007 --> 00:13:30,611
touch me. The boy's family
has retained a civil

290
00:13:30,677 --> 00:13:33,847
attorney and the office of
Representative Angelina

291
00:13:33,914 --> 00:13:37,451
Cruz told us she is working
to learn more about the

292
00:13:37,518 --> 00:13:39,753
incident, with the possible
intention of having the

293
00:13:39,820 --> 00:13:42,856
governor's office
investigate the facility.

294
00:13:42,923 --> 00:13:46,059
For its part. In a
statement to the

295
00:13:47,227 --> 00:13:49,930
Administrator of Youth
Rehabilitation Services for

296
00:13:49,997 --> 00:13:53,600
Racine County, said
situations like this are

297
00:13:53,667 --> 00:13:57,938
complex and unfold quickly,
and said we maintain our

298
00:13:58,005 --> 00:14:01,475
commitment to ensuring that
staff have the training,

299
00:14:01,542 --> 00:14:05,112
oversight and support
needed to manage difficult

300
00:14:05,179 --> 00:14:09,183
situations appropriately
and professionally. The

301
00:14:09,249 --> 00:14:12,352
Racine County D.A. declined
to prosecute the security

302
00:14:12,419 --> 00:14:14,655
staffers, but how does this
kind of treatment of a

303
00:14:14,721 --> 00:14:17,724
youth offender in trouble
for retail theft? Square

304
00:14:17,791 --> 00:14:21,361
with best practices. We
turn to the youth defense

305
00:14:21,428 --> 00:14:23,864
practice coordinator in the
state public Defender's

306
00:14:23,931 --> 00:14:26,066
office, Eileen Fredericks,
and thanks very much for

307
00:14:26,133 --> 00:14:29,336
being here.
>> So when you first saw

308
00:14:29,403 --> 00:14:32,472
this footage from cameras
inside the facility, what

309
00:14:32,539 --> 00:14:36,543
was your reaction?
>> I was horrified. I had

310
00:14:37,077 --> 00:14:39,613
known that there were these
allegations, but obviously

311
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,950
I didn't know the extent of
them. So when I saw them, I

312
00:14:43,016 --> 00:14:45,853
was shocked to see that,
you know, right out of the

313
00:14:45,919 --> 00:14:47,921
gates, this facility
opening in May and having

314
00:14:47,988 --> 00:14:51,692
this happen, it was so
disappointing and upsetting

315
00:14:51,758 --> 00:14:55,929
to know that this is kind
of the result of, you know,

316
00:14:55,996 --> 00:14:58,365
the Lincoln Hills incidents
and all the problems there.

317
00:14:58,432 --> 00:15:00,067
Now we have this new
facility opening and the

318
00:15:00,133 --> 00:15:02,736
same problems seem to still
be there.

319
00:15:02,803 --> 00:15:05,105
>> Is this kind of incident
a rarity, do you think,

320
00:15:05,172 --> 00:15:07,407
behind the doors of these
facilities?

321
00:15:07,474 --> 00:15:11,345
>> I mean, research across
the country would suggest

322
00:15:11,411 --> 00:15:14,882
that it isn't that, you
know, that the punitive

323
00:15:14,948 --> 00:15:16,817
nature of these
correctional facilities and

324
00:15:16,884 --> 00:15:20,420
how they the power dynamic
and these vulnerable youth,

325
00:15:20,487 --> 00:15:25,158
that abuse is a major issue
in these facilities. And I

326
00:15:25,225 --> 00:15:27,327
do think that, you know,
the culture obviously isn't

327
00:15:27,394 --> 00:15:30,163
what we need it to be. It's
not seen as a treatment

328
00:15:30,230 --> 00:15:33,467
facility. It's a it's a
jail essentially for kids.

329
00:15:33,534 --> 00:15:37,037
And with that attitude, I
think the staff thinks of

330
00:15:37,104 --> 00:15:42,042
it that way and they're not
necessarily trained in a

331
00:15:42,109 --> 00:15:45,546
treatment mindset. They're
not trained to de-escalate

332
00:15:45,612 --> 00:15:47,981
situations. They're not
trained to recognize in

333
00:15:48,048 --> 00:15:51,018
themselves when they're
becoming, you know,

334
00:15:51,084 --> 00:15:53,921
dysregulated and struggling
obviously seem to be the

335
00:15:53,987 --> 00:15:58,258
case in in this situation.
>> Because this facility,

336
00:15:58,325 --> 00:16:01,361
when it talks about itself,
it talks about that kind of

337
00:16:01,428 --> 00:16:05,232
care and support, but it
looks just like a

338
00:16:06,133 --> 00:16:09,703
correctional facility.
>> Yes. And I think that,

339
00:16:09,770 --> 00:16:12,673
you know, when they built
this, they, you know, had

340
00:16:12,739 --> 00:16:16,143
all this beautiful ideas
about what it was going to

341
00:16:16,210 --> 00:16:20,514
look like, but they did not
really, I think, have a

342
00:16:20,581 --> 00:16:23,884
treatment focus like they
could have. I think that

343
00:16:23,951 --> 00:16:27,988
they had already they
already had a facility in

344
00:16:28,055 --> 00:16:31,358
Racine that was housing
kids long term, and they

345
00:16:31,425 --> 00:16:33,694
had that just kind of moved
to this nice new building

346
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,263
in hopes that it would kind
of just carry itself. But

347
00:16:36,330 --> 00:16:38,899
the culture and the staff
and the ideas that the

348
00:16:38,966 --> 00:16:42,469
workers are coming with are
really what drive how how

349
00:16:42,536 --> 00:16:46,807
the kids respond, right,
that they have that they

350
00:16:46,874 --> 00:16:48,976
have the support that they
need, that they're building

351
00:16:49,042 --> 00:16:51,144
relationships, that they
want to help the kids, that

352
00:16:51,211 --> 00:16:53,547
they see the kids as kids
and not as criminals or

353
00:16:53,614 --> 00:16:57,050
inmates.
>> You've touched on this a

354
00:16:57,117 --> 00:16:59,853
little bit, but why does
this kind of volatile

355
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:04,324
violence inside these
facilities persist?

356
00:17:04,391 --> 00:17:06,560
>> I do think it's a
cultural thing, and I think

357
00:17:06,627 --> 00:17:10,430
that they they just are not
basically coming from a

358
00:17:10,497 --> 00:17:13,033
treatment model to begin
with that they're kind of

359
00:17:13,100 --> 00:17:15,135
like, this is a
correctional facility. This

360
00:17:15,202 --> 00:17:18,539
is a prison for kids. They
call the school. But you

361
00:17:18,605 --> 00:17:21,708
know, everything about it
kind of screams like it's

362
00:17:21,775 --> 00:17:24,678
more we're just controlling
these kids, not we're

363
00:17:24,745 --> 00:17:27,014
actually trying to
rehabilitate them. And so

364
00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,483
there are residential
treatment centers in the

365
00:17:29,550 --> 00:17:32,419
state that actually are
built around a model of

366
00:17:32,486 --> 00:17:36,523
treatment, and they are
much more, I think, working

367
00:17:36,590 --> 00:17:39,893
on, you know,
rehabilitating and building

368
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,896
relationships and providing
therapy and doing

369
00:17:42,963 --> 00:17:44,865
assessments and seeing what
needs the kids have and

370
00:17:44,932 --> 00:17:47,067
then responding to those
needs. Where I think that

371
00:17:47,134 --> 00:17:49,403
this is a setting where
it's a much more one size

372
00:17:49,469 --> 00:17:52,673
fits all. And really they
don't have the, you know,

373
00:17:52,739 --> 00:17:55,442
the goal of getting to the
bottom of kind of what was

374
00:17:55,509 --> 00:17:58,245
going on. They're more just
trying to hold them for the

375
00:17:58,312 --> 00:18:00,414
time that they, you know,
keep them out of the

376
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,649
community for the time that
they feel is appropriate

377
00:18:02,716 --> 00:18:04,885
and is allowable under the
law.

378
00:18:04,952 --> 00:18:08,822
>> As additional facilities
open, including the one in

379
00:18:08,889 --> 00:18:11,425
Milwaukee. How might this
incident in Racine inform

380
00:18:11,491 --> 00:18:14,862
the treatment and care of
juvenile offenders?

381
00:18:14,928 --> 00:18:17,531
>> They need to really look
at these best practices.

382
00:18:17,598 --> 00:18:20,000
They need to be very
careful about how they're

383
00:18:20,067 --> 00:18:22,569
staffing these places. They
need to have a leadership

384
00:18:22,636 --> 00:18:26,373
that is empathetic, that is,
you know, positive in their

385
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:31,111
mindset toward these kids
and really be focused on

386
00:18:31,845 --> 00:18:35,649
making sure that they hire
people who have who kind of

387
00:18:35,716 --> 00:18:40,354
demonstrate a positive
culture in the facility.

388
00:18:40,420 --> 00:18:42,923
That does not seem to
happen in Racine. And I

389
00:18:42,990 --> 00:18:45,626
think that, you know, just
even that there was four

390
00:18:45,692 --> 00:18:48,762
people involved in this
incident. I mean, I work

391
00:18:48,829 --> 00:18:51,565
with those kids every day
and like, they are, you

392
00:18:51,632 --> 00:18:55,602
know, 95% of the time,
absolutely regulated and

393
00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:58,071
can be very calm. I mean,
there are some extreme

394
00:18:58,138 --> 00:18:59,940
examples where kids are
really out of control, you

395
00:19:00,007 --> 00:19:03,877
know, but these kids do not
need to be treated like

396
00:19:03,944 --> 00:19:05,979
animals. It needs to be
that everybody kind of is

397
00:19:06,046 --> 00:19:08,782
like, you know, eyes on and
expecting of each other

398
00:19:08,849 --> 00:19:11,585
that they're treating these
kids with care and

399
00:19:11,652 --> 00:19:12,920
compassion.
>> All right. We leave it

400
00:19:12,986 --> 00:19:14,655
there. Eileen Fredericks,
thanks very much.

401
00:19:14,721 --> 00:19:18,792
>> Thank you.
>> In other news, Wisconsin

402
00:19:18,859 --> 00:19:22,529
is one of just ten states
where marijuana is illegal

403
00:19:22,596 --> 00:19:26,900
for both medical and
recreational use. But since

404
00:19:26,967 --> 00:19:29,670
2018, a federal loophole
allowed cannabis products

405
00:19:29,736 --> 00:19:32,573
to become an industry worth
millions of dollars in the

406
00:19:32,639 --> 00:19:35,609
state. That is, until the
federal government closed

407
00:19:35,676 --> 00:19:38,745
the legal loophole at the
end of the government

408
00:19:38,812 --> 00:19:41,682
shutdown. Here and now,
student journalist Elijah

409
00:19:41,748 --> 00:19:44,384
Pines tells us how business
owners are scrambling

410
00:19:44,451 --> 00:19:48,255
before the ban takes effect
in November.

411
00:19:49,556 --> 00:19:52,025
>> We were still planning
on growing. We were

412
00:19:52,092 --> 00:19:56,063
actually already making
adjustments for next year.

413
00:19:56,129 --> 00:19:58,265
>> Joni and Jeff Sayers
were among the first hemp

414
00:19:58,332 --> 00:20:01,368
farmers in Wisconsin after
the 2018 farm bill made

415
00:20:01,435 --> 00:20:04,872
hemp legal to grow for
industrial use. A technical

416
00:20:04,938 --> 00:20:06,874
loophole in the bill
invited a new kind of

417
00:20:06,940 --> 00:20:10,310
industry to take hold.
>> A small, farm,

418
00:20:10,377 --> 00:20:12,980
sustainable crop that would
be great to grow.

419
00:20:13,046 --> 00:20:15,482
>> For the past seven years,
the pair have been growing

420
00:20:15,549 --> 00:20:18,018
hemp and making it into
products containing THC,

421
00:20:18,085 --> 00:20:20,821
the chemical that causes a
high. They sell gummies,

422
00:20:20,888 --> 00:20:23,757
lip balms, tinctures and
topicals at the farmers

423
00:20:23,824 --> 00:20:26,426
market. They just finished
this year's harvest and

424
00:20:26,493 --> 00:20:29,162
were about to board a plane
when they heard the news.

425
00:20:29,229 --> 00:20:31,532
The bill that ended the
government shutdown closed

426
00:20:31,598 --> 00:20:34,234
the hemp loophole and will
soon make their products

427
00:20:34,301 --> 00:20:37,437
illegal.
>> Devastated, right? I

428
00:20:38,205 --> 00:20:41,875
mean, it was just had the
wind knocked out of us for

429
00:20:41,942 --> 00:20:46,613
a minute. But our first
thought was, well, we live,

430
00:20:48,348 --> 00:20:51,418
eat and breathe hemp. This
is our life.

431
00:20:51,485 --> 00:20:54,688
>> The 2018 farm Bill
defined hemp as a cannabis

432
00:20:54,755 --> 00:20:58,525
plant, having less than
0.3% of delta nine THC, a

433
00:20:58,592 --> 00:21:02,262
specific kind of THC. Since
then, delta nine

434
00:21:02,329 --> 00:21:04,865
derivatives have blossomed
into an industry worth

435
00:21:04,932 --> 00:21:07,601
billions. The new, stricter
rules effectively ban all

436
00:21:07,668 --> 00:21:10,270
forms of THC for
consumption.

437
00:21:10,337 --> 00:21:13,874
>> We upgraded two more new
greenhouses last year, and

438
00:21:13,941 --> 00:21:16,043
we were debating whether we
should do it this year, but

439
00:21:16,109 --> 00:21:18,345
I think everything at this
point will probably be on

440
00:21:18,412 --> 00:21:22,416
hold for a few months.
>> In Wisconsin, it's

441
00:21:23,317 --> 00:21:27,521
estimated hemp is a $700
million industry, providing

442
00:21:27,588 --> 00:21:31,491
3500 jobs. Businesses like
Hemp Haven Farms are now on

443
00:21:31,558 --> 00:21:34,862
a one year countdown before
their THC goods are banned,

444
00:21:34,928 --> 00:21:38,599
and have to figure out what
to do next.

445
00:21:38,665 --> 00:21:43,003
>> We sell our farm.
>> I was considering myself

446
00:21:43,604 --> 00:21:46,440
semi-retired. Obviously I
take myself out of

447
00:21:46,507 --> 00:21:50,277
retirement to go back into
building and home

448
00:21:50,344 --> 00:21:53,914
remodeling.
>> Hemp has also expanded

449
00:21:55,582 --> 00:21:58,619
into other industries in
Wisconsin. Eagle Park has

450
00:21:58,685 --> 00:22:00,921
been a staple of
Milwaukee's brewing scene

451
00:22:00,988 --> 00:22:04,691
for years. In 2023, the
company's president, Max

452
00:22:04,758 --> 00:22:07,561
Borgardt, and his partners
decided to make the jump to

453
00:22:07,628 --> 00:22:10,964
THC drinks.
>> We've always been pro

454
00:22:12,466 --> 00:22:17,371
THC in all industries and.
We had our customers start

455
00:22:18,238 --> 00:22:20,307
asking and, you know,
figuring out, are we going

456
00:22:20,374 --> 00:22:22,876
to jump into this industry?
And it made sense for us to

457
00:22:22,943 --> 00:22:25,979
do it at that time.
>> THC drinks are now a

458
00:22:26,046 --> 00:22:28,749
significant chunk of their
profit.

459
00:22:28,815 --> 00:22:31,118
something like 16% this
year. But it's, you know,

460
00:22:31,185 --> 00:22:33,787
it's nowhere. When we
started out, it was a very

461
00:22:33,854 --> 00:22:35,389
small percentage. But I
think the thing is it's

462
00:22:35,455 --> 00:22:38,492
growing like crazy. It's
growing so fast.

463
00:22:38,559 --> 00:22:40,894
>> The provision to ban
hemp was slipped into the

464
00:22:40,961 --> 00:22:43,697
bill that ended the
government shutdown. It

465
00:22:43,764 --> 00:22:46,767
happened so fast. Not
everyone heard about it.

466
00:22:46,834 --> 00:22:48,869
>> We thought, oh, that
won't happen, but not in a

467
00:22:48,936 --> 00:22:51,638
not on this federal level.
No.

468
00:22:51,705 --> 00:22:55,309
>> And we also didn't have
any idea that it was

469
00:22:55,375 --> 00:22:57,578
something that they were
going to attach to this,

470
00:22:57,644 --> 00:23:01,682
you know, reopening and
funding the government bill.

471
00:23:01,748 --> 00:23:04,852
But here it is.
>> It's billions of dollars

472
00:23:04,918 --> 00:23:07,654
on the line, and the public
didn't know, the companies

473
00:23:07,721 --> 00:23:09,923
didn't know, and they did
it within two days. So when

474
00:23:09,990 --> 00:23:12,326
it went through the Senate,
it immediately went to the

475
00:23:12,392 --> 00:23:15,262
House. And that window was
two days. There's not

476
00:23:15,329 --> 00:23:17,397
enough time to react and
not enough time to do

477
00:23:17,464 --> 00:23:19,867
anything.
Agard has to figure out

478
00:23:19,933 --> 00:23:22,503
what to do if the ban
sticks.

479
00:23:22,903 --> 00:23:25,172
>> Next year. It could have
been an incredible year for

480
00:23:25,239 --> 00:23:28,475
us just because of how the
segment has been doing.

481
00:23:28,542 --> 00:23:31,445
>> Nice critics consider
products with under 0.3%

482
00:23:31,512 --> 00:23:34,848
levels of THC to
effectively be legal.

483
00:23:34,915 --> 00:23:38,285
Marijuana. In Wisconsin,
hemp products are

484
00:23:38,352 --> 00:23:40,254
unregulated.
>> The opportunity for

485
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,189
states and the federal
government to make tax

486
00:23:42,256 --> 00:23:44,725
revenue, they can tax it. I
mean, we're taxed on the

487
00:23:44,791 --> 00:23:46,894
alcohol that we produce and
the spirits that we produce.

488
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,163
There's an excise tax on
those. We welcome an excise

489
00:23:50,230 --> 00:23:53,100
tax if that's what needs to
happen to have regulation

490
00:23:53,166 --> 00:23:56,403
in place.
>> We are opposed to a ban.

491
00:23:57,304 --> 00:24:00,374
Obviously regulation is is
is good, right. There

492
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:01,975
should be an age
restriction. There should

493
00:24:02,042 --> 00:24:05,279
be truth and accuracy in
labeling.

494
00:24:09,183 --> 00:24:12,019
everything hemp is off the
table, it becomes under the

495
00:24:12,085 --> 00:24:14,288
table.
>> If this happens, the

496
00:24:14,354 --> 00:24:19,159
Black market will grow. So
that is unregulated. So I

497
00:24:20,027 --> 00:24:23,897
worry about the safety of
products that might be out

498
00:24:23,964 --> 00:24:28,569
there that are unregulated.
>> Both Hemp Haven and

499
00:24:28,635 --> 00:24:30,771
Eagle Park have their
products tested by labs and

500
00:24:30,838 --> 00:24:35,008
sell only to those over 21.
Prior to the federal ban,

501
00:24:35,075 --> 00:24:37,611
state lawmakers proposed
their own bill to close the

502
00:24:37,678 --> 00:24:41,315
loophole. Other bills would
legalize and regulate THC

503
00:24:41,381 --> 00:24:44,418
and hemp, but without new
state laws on the books. In

504
00:24:44,484 --> 00:24:47,521
one year, the federal ban
will take effect. For

505
00:24:47,588 --> 00:24:50,157
Wisconsin. Time is running
out for hemp.

506
00:24:50,224 --> 00:24:53,760
>> I'll tell you. I had
about three three times the

507
00:24:53,827 --> 00:24:56,496
online orders this week
than I normally do. People

508
00:24:56,563 --> 00:25:00,234
are panicking, I'm sure.
>> Reporting from Deerfield.

509
00:25:00,300 --> 00:25:03,437
I'm Elijah Pines for "Here&
Now".

510
00:25:04,705 --> 00:25:07,341
>> At the state Capitol
this week, advocates urge

511
00:25:07,407 --> 00:25:11,545
the legislature to take up
and pass Cole's Act, a bill

512
00:25:11,612 --> 00:25:15,449
that attempts to clamp down
on industry practices that

513
00:25:15,516 --> 00:25:19,019
they say hurt patients by
increasing drug prices and

514
00:25:19,086 --> 00:25:22,122
decreasing access to
medications.

515
00:25:22,189 --> 00:25:24,992
>> We need the legislature
to get this done this

516
00:25:25,058 --> 00:25:28,695
session. Patients can't
wait any longer. These

517
00:25:28,762 --> 00:25:31,331
copay accumulator policies
are preventing patients

518
00:25:31,398 --> 00:25:34,568
from getting access to
needed medications, and

519
00:25:34,635 --> 00:25:38,338
that has to stop. Insurance
plans are rapidly adopting

520
00:25:38,405 --> 00:25:41,141
these policies, and they
are becoming increasingly

521
00:25:41,208 --> 00:25:44,511
common. As a result, more
and more patients are

522
00:25:44,578 --> 00:25:47,481
reaching out to us with
stories about going to the

523
00:25:47,548 --> 00:25:50,083
pharmacy counter to pick up
their medications and being

524
00:25:50,150 --> 00:25:52,553
told they will have to pay
thousands of dollars out of

525
00:25:52,619 --> 00:25:55,489
their own pockets in order
to receive their

526
00:25:55,556 --> 00:25:59,259
medications.
>> You can learn more about

527
00:25:59,326 --> 00:26:03,764
drug prices and benefits in
Rx Uncovered, a special

528
00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:07,568
series of reports about why
patients can't afford life

529
00:26:07,634 --> 00:26:10,671
saving medication despite
having health coverage.

530
00:26:10,737 --> 00:26:13,440
Watch the full special
episode by visiting our

531
00:26:13,507 --> 00:26:16,677
website at PBS Wisconsin.
Org, and then clicking on

532
00:26:16,743 --> 00:26:19,980
the news tab. That's our
program for tonight, I'm

533
00:26:20,047 --> 00:26:23,951
Frederica Freyberg. Have a
good weekend.

534
00:26:46,940 --> 00:26:47,875
>> Funding for "Here& Now"
is provided by the Focus

535
00:26:47,941 --> 00:26:50,377
is provided by the Focus
Fund for Journalism and

536
00:26:50,444 --> 00:26:52,913
Friends of PBS Wisconsin.