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The following program is a
PBS Wisconsin original

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production.
>> A full house of primary

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candidates for governor
adds another with the entry

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of former Lieutenant
Governor Mandela Barnes. As

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candidates on both sides
prepare for an August

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runoff, even as the snow
still flies.

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[MUSIC]
I'm Frederica Freyberg.

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Tonight on "Here& Now", we
begin our series of

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interviews with Wisconsin
primary candidates for

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governor. Tonight, the
Republicans, an elections

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expert, unpacks the legal
challenges to Wisconsin

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congressional maps and the
shocking history of racial

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housing covenants in
Wisconsin.

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[MUSIC]
It's "Here& Now" for

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December 5th.
[MUSIC]

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>> Funding for "Here& Now"
is provided by the Focus

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Fund for Journalism and
friends of PBS Wisconsin.

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>> It takes two hands to
count the number of

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candidates running for
Wisconsin governor in 2026.

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Tonight, we begin a series
of interviews with them,

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conducted by senior
political reporter Zac

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Schultz, which you'll see
on this program over the

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next three weeks. First up,
Republicans in the race. We

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start with a candidate with
solid name recognition.

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Wisconsin's seventh
congressional U.S.

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representative, Tom Tiffany.
>> Tom, Tiffany, thanks for

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joining us. For voters who
don't know who you are,

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introduce yourself and give
us a sense of why you're

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running for governor.
>> Yeah. Lifelong resident

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of Wisconsin. I grew up on
a dairy farm in western

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Wisconsin with my seven
brothers and sisters. We

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were up early in the
morning milking cows,

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I worked my way through UW
River falls, got an

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agricultural degree, and
then ultimately settled in

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the Northwoods where I met
my wife, Chris, and that's

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where we raised our three
daughters.

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that would say defines you,
or maybe a a lane within

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your political party that
may drive you?

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>> You know, I think one
thing that maybe a lot of

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people don't realize, the
reason I ran for the state

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Assembly back in 2010, when
I first gained elected

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office, was because of
fiscal responsibility. We

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had a $3 billion deficit at
that point, and that's

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always animated me. That
government should spend

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within its means.
>> How much money are you

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going to need to raise in
this primary and for the

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general election?
budgeting to raise $40

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million. We'll see if we
get there. But, you know,

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Wisconsin, because of that
pass through loophole, I

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call it the billionaire
loophole. There's just so

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much money that comes into
Wisconsin. But, you know,

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you can cry about it or you
can compete. We choose to

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compete. And but we're
we're hoping to raise $40

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million.
competitive primary. How do

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you personally define the
difference between negative

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campaigning versus defining
the differences or issues

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between you and an opponent?
>> You know, if you're just

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hurling mud at your
opponent, name calling,

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stuff like that, then I
don't I don't think that's

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how Wisconsin voters
talking about issues. And

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some people describe
negative campaigning as

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being that if you point out
differences, I think that's

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the important part of the
political process, is to

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point out the differences
between you and your

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opponent. And so that's
what I always try to do.

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>> As voters are tuning in.
Should they be more drawn

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to a candidate that has the
issues that align with them,

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or should they be thinking
about electability as well?

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>> For the primary,
electability is a is a big

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part of it, I think. I
think it's a combination of

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issues and electability.
Because if you're right on

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the issues, you're going to
gain some voters. And

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that's ultimately what it's
all about, is getting 50,

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50% plus one.
>> Obviously, you represent

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northern Wisconsin. What's
your what's your goal?

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What's your plan to reach
the rest of the state and

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introduce yourself there?
>> Well, we have a 72

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county strategy. Sometimes
Republicans have not done

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that, including ignoring
now in Dane County. We will

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not ignore Dane County, the
fastest growing county in

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the state. And but we have
a 72 county strategy, and

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we're going to cover every
bit of it.

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you think Donald Trump will
have on this election?

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>> You know, there will be
some, certainly. But I know

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one thing that Democrat,
whoever the Democrat

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candidate is, they will try
to make it about Donald

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Trump. And part of the
reason for that, I think,

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is that they don't have a
strong set of issues that

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have been animating them
that the voters want to

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hear. I mean, when you see
some of the stuff like

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defund the police or, you
know, boys and girls sports,

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stuff like that, most of
the voters in Wisconsin are

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like, yeah, we're not
buying that stuff. And so I

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think that's part of the
reason why they try to make

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President Trump the central
part of the campaign,

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rather than debating the
issues. I can assure the

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voters that I will be
debating the issues.

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>> Tom, Tiffany, thank you
so much for coming in.

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>> It's great to join you,
Zach.

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>> Up next is the other
Republican in the primary

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race for governor, who was
first to throw his hat into

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the ring back in May.
Washington County Executive

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Josh Schoemann.
>> Josh Schoemann, thanks

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for joining us.
>> Yeah, thanks for having

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me. Good to be here.
>> So for voters who don't

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know you, give us the quick
story. Who are you and why

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are you running for
governor?

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is I'm a Christian. First,
I'm the son of a minister.

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My my dad's ministry was in
mostly northeastern

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was a registered nurse. My
wife and I have been

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married almost 25 years.
Both Wisconsin kids were

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raised our family and
mostly in Washington County,

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and we now have an 80 acre
farm in between West Bend

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and Grafton. Love,
Wisconsin through and

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through. Aside from a tour
of duty in Iraq in 2003,

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and I always joke a tour of
duty in the Chicagoland

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suburbs while I was getting
my master's degree at

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Wisconsin kid and been back
working in public service

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my whole life. Dedicated it
to the service and

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sacrifice of the guys and
gals who didn't make it

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back, and reflecting the
Lord's love by loving my

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neighbor as myself in
public service the last 12

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years in Washington County.
>> So is there a single

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issue that would define you,
or maybe a lane within the

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Republican Party that helps
define you?

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driven being very people
focused and and mostly

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interested in solving
problems. That's why I got

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into public service. I
actually started in public

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administration because I
little too volatile and too

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theoretical. Public
administration is really

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where the rubber hits the
road, and you're dealing

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with people where they're
at. My first job back in

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Wisconsin was deputy clerk
treasurer in Princeton,

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Green Lake County, and I
ended up taking on

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responsibilities in public
works, literally shoveling

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out lift stations. So, you
know, I think those are

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important things, making
sure when you flush the

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toilet, it does what it's
supposed to do and the

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garbage is collected on
time. And to this day,

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that's who I am as
Washington County Executive

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and who I will be as
governor.

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think you're going to need
to raise to win this

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primary? And then what
happens after that in a

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general election?
>> Yeah, I mean, it's it's

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embarrassing the fact that
this is probably a quarter

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billion dollar race all in
for for both sides and all

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the outside spending and
just the candidate alone.

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I'm told about basement
floor, 20 million, first

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floor probably closer to 40
million. So it's it's a

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serious endeavor and one
that we're excited about.

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>> When it comes to a
competitive primary. Where

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do you personally draw the
line between negative

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campaigning versus just
defining the differences

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between yourself and an
opponent?

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gets personal, that's
really the the dividing

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line. There's certainly
differences in on our side

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of the aisle. There's only
two of us in this race

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right now. And there's
certainly differences

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between policy approach. I
think those are important

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to point out. And I think
that's the essence of the

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primary process. But once
it becomes personal attacks,

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I mean, I think that's
where we've seen primaries

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in the past go awry. And I
have no intention of going

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down that, that lane. And I
hope the door swings both

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ways.
aware of the candidates,

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should they be looking at
which candidate has the

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closest issues to them or
general electability?

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>> Well, I think it's both.
I mean, first and foremost,

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I think this has got to be
about the people and local

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communities a little bit
more about Washington

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less about Washington, D.C.
but then I also think

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there's there's something
to be said about the types

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of attributes it's going to
take to win a general

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election. Generals are, of
course, much different than

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Republican side in
particular, we've spent a

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little bit too much time
focusing on who can win a

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primary purity tests of of
sorts, and we need to spend

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more time thinking about
what can win in the general

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election. I think when you
when you put my resume next

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to anybody, I think the
answer is clear. If we want

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to be in the governor's
mansion in January of 2027,

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I think not only me, but my
profile and our campaign is

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the type that wins.
>> This is an interesting

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contrast because we have
the northern Wisconsin,

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which is kind of the the
new prime territory in

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Wisconsin for Republicans
versus the old guard, the

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wow counties, which
obviously represent. So how

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do you view that that
matchup.

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that's one of the main
contrasts north versus

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certainly a generational
difference. But I also

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think it's, you know, local
and and personal versus

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kind of state and DC
Madison in Washington DC, I

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think those are basically
the dividing lines. And I

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think it's a good contrast
for people to really

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wrestle with what's best
for us to choose in August,

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to put up in November for
the best shot, to have the

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governor's mansion in
January.

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>> How do you think Donald
Trump will impact this race?

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>> Oh, huge. I mean, you
know, it's the president's

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party. And that's been
clear for the last ten

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years. But I think one
thing to keep in mind is

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President Trump came on the
scene in 2015 after the

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2010 Tea Party wave.
Republicans basically ran

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on three major points,
reduced the debt, eliminate

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deficits, and repeal and
replace Obamacare. Here we

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are 15 years later, and
we're still talking about

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those three things.
Sometimes President Trump

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one pushing the needle on
any of those by himself

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that can't. That's
unacceptable. And I think

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it's why we continue to
feel a churn in politics

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across America. So he's
he's got a humongous impact.

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I certainly am going to
work my tail off to earn

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his support and endorsement
and show him that he can

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have the confidence in me
that I've got this race.

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Once we get past August and
and we lead it to victory

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in November.
for your time.

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>> Thanks for having me.
>> Next week, Zach

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continues his interviews
with candidates running for

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governor. Look for more of
his reporting on air and

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online in coming weeks. The
battle lines are drawn once

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again over voting district
lines, this time Wisconsin

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congressional districts.
Republicans have blasted

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the order, but the
Wisconsin Supreme Court

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assigned a pair of three
judge panels to hear two

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lawsuits that argue that
the state's congressional

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maps must be redrawn
because they are

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unconstitutionally favoring
of Republicans. Six of the

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state's eight districts are
currently held by

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Republicans. The court
playing out in the midst of

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a national redistricting
battle, as President Donald

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Trump is trying to preserve
a slim Republican majority

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in the House in the 2026
elections. Director of the

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Elections Research Center
and professor of political

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00:11:26,420 --> 00:11:30,123
science at UW-Madison,
Barry Burden is here with

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00:11:30,190 --> 00:11:32,092
more. And thanks very much
for being here.

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00:11:32,159 --> 00:11:35,262
>> Thanks for having me.
>> So in your expert view,

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00:11:35,329 --> 00:11:37,197
do Wisconsin congressional
maps unconstitutionally

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00:11:37,264 --> 00:11:40,634
favor Republicans?
>> Well, they certainly

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00:11:40,701 --> 00:11:42,469
favor Republicans. Whether
this constitutional or not

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00:11:42,536 --> 00:11:45,105
will be an issue for the
courts. You know, there are

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00:11:45,172 --> 00:11:48,242
eight districts in the
state. Six of them are held

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00:11:48,308 --> 00:11:51,044
by Republicans, two of the
seats held by Democrats.

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00:11:51,111 --> 00:11:54,281
And it's been that way for
a while. That's one of the

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00:11:54,348 --> 00:11:56,283
contentions, at least in
one of the cases, is that

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00:11:56,350 --> 00:11:58,185
it's been a durable and
predictable outcome, that

246
00:11:58,252 --> 00:12:01,221
the drawing of those maps,
which really began in 2011

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00:12:01,288 --> 00:12:03,957
under Scott Walker and
Republicans continued

248
00:12:04,024 --> 00:12:06,293
essentially with a least
change version of that

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00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,130
after the 2020 census, that
it has locked in A62

250
00:12:10,197 --> 00:12:12,232
majority. So in that sense,
it's certainly tilted

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00:12:12,299 --> 00:12:15,169
towards Republicans.
>> So other than the six

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00:12:15,235 --> 00:12:20,240
two district margins, what
stands out about these maps?

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00:12:20,307 --> 00:12:24,178
>> They're not competitive,
at least for six of those

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00:12:24,244 --> 00:12:26,446
seats are unlikely to be
held by anything but a

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00:12:26,513 --> 00:12:28,482
Republican or Democrat,
sort of. Regardless of who

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00:12:28,549 --> 00:12:31,118
those people are and what
the campaigns are like and

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00:12:31,185 --> 00:12:34,988
what the issues are like,
we know well in advance the

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00:12:35,055 --> 00:12:37,791
second district, the eighth
party is going to represent

259
00:12:37,858 --> 00:12:40,227
those seats? Only two of
the seats, the first and

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00:12:40,294 --> 00:12:43,297
the third, are anywhere
near competitive. We have

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00:12:43,363 --> 00:12:44,898
Republican incumbents in
both of those districts.

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00:12:44,965 --> 00:12:48,836
They lean Republican, so
there's always a

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00:12:48,902 --> 00:12:51,638
there. But even those have
been reliable for

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00:12:51,705 --> 00:12:54,508
Republican victories.
>> Why was congressional

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00:12:54,575 --> 00:12:57,878
redistricting kind of left
off the table when

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00:12:57,945 --> 00:13:00,814
Wisconsin redrew and then
passed into law? New

267
00:13:00,881 --> 00:13:03,217
legislative maps?
>> We don't know exactly,

268
00:13:03,283 --> 00:13:05,485
because the Supreme Court
wasn't transparent about

269
00:13:05,552 --> 00:13:08,222
that. There were lawsuits
brought to the Supreme

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00:13:08,288 --> 00:13:10,023
Court focusing on the state
legislative districts and

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00:13:10,090 --> 00:13:12,159
the congressional. They
took up the state

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00:13:12,226 --> 00:13:14,728
legislative districts, and
that eventually resulted in

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00:13:14,795 --> 00:13:17,531
new lines being drawn for
the Assembly and state

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00:13:17,598 --> 00:13:20,033
Senate, the congressional
maps they decided not to

275
00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:22,269
touch and sent them back,
really without any message

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00:13:22,336 --> 00:13:25,138
as to why they were not
taking them up. It now, in

277
00:13:25,205 --> 00:13:28,208
retrospect, seems to be
something about the process,

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00:13:28,275 --> 00:13:30,844
because those same groups
came forward essentially

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00:13:30,911 --> 00:13:33,180
with similar lawsuits, but
now filed in Dane County

280
00:13:33,247 --> 00:13:36,350
Court. That's following an
old process from 2011. We

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00:13:36,416 --> 00:13:39,253
might talk about that maybe
is where the court was

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00:13:39,319 --> 00:13:41,989
telling those litigants to
go.

283
00:13:42,055 --> 00:13:45,125
precedent is there for the
Wisconsin Supreme Court to

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00:13:45,192 --> 00:13:48,028
order circuit judge panels
to hear the cases

285
00:13:48,095 --> 00:13:50,330
challenging these maps?
>> Well, it hasn't been

286
00:13:50,397 --> 00:13:52,232
done before, and that's
because the law that

287
00:13:52,299 --> 00:13:55,335
enabled it was passed in
2011, ironically, by Scott

288
00:13:55,402 --> 00:13:59,206
Walker and Republicans,
when they were unhappy that

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00:13:59,273 --> 00:14:01,108
Democrats seemed to be
filing suit in Dane County

290
00:14:01,175 --> 00:14:03,277
repeatedly, where they
thought they would get a

291
00:14:03,343 --> 00:14:05,179
favorable hearing from a
judge there. This requires

292
00:14:05,245 --> 00:14:08,682
that any case that has to
do with the apportionment

293
00:14:08,749 --> 00:14:12,352
or districting at the
state level, has to result

294
00:14:12,419 --> 00:14:15,088
in three judge panels being
appointed by the Supreme

295
00:14:15,155 --> 00:14:17,491
Court, and those judges
can't all come from Dane

296
00:14:17,558 --> 00:14:21,128
County. They've got to be
scattered across circuits

297
00:14:21,195 --> 00:14:23,130
what the court did last
week in creating two of

298
00:14:23,197 --> 00:14:26,233
these panels to deal with
the two cases before them.

299
00:14:26,300 --> 00:14:28,101
>> So in the redistricting
battle, are those efforts

300
00:14:28,168 --> 00:14:31,872
about the actual fairness
of of maps or directed

301
00:14:31,939 --> 00:14:35,075
toward partisan advantage?
>> It's all partisanship, I

302
00:14:35,142 --> 00:14:38,345
would say at this point.
And that comes also from

303
00:14:38,412 --> 00:14:41,348
the Supreme Court, which
before this latest round of

304
00:14:41,415 --> 00:14:45,352
districting back in 2018
2019, dealt with a case

305
00:14:45,419 --> 00:14:48,689
that ended up with the
court saying any level of

306
00:14:48,755 --> 00:14:51,091
partisan shenanigans in
drawing districts, at least

307
00:14:51,158 --> 00:14:53,861
for Congress under federal
law, is completely fine.

308
00:14:53,927 --> 00:14:56,496
That's not a matter of law.
It's not a matter of

309
00:14:56,563 --> 00:14:58,832
constitution. So it's
noteworthy that these two

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00:14:58,899 --> 00:15:02,302
cases in Wisconsin are
under state law and state

311
00:15:02,369 --> 00:15:04,204
constitutions going to the
state supreme Court. So the

312
00:15:04,271 --> 00:15:06,440
litigants have decided to
steer clear of the federal

313
00:15:06,507 --> 00:15:08,775
courts because there's no
longer a remedy there, at

314
00:15:08,842 --> 00:15:11,345
least when it's about
partisanship.

315
00:15:11,411 --> 00:15:15,549
decision just released by
the US Supreme Court on

316
00:15:15,616 --> 00:15:18,118
happens with redistricting
going forward?

317
00:15:18,185 --> 00:15:21,154
>> So Texas is where this
all began. This is a really

318
00:15:21,221 --> 00:15:24,124
strange era we're in that
many states are redrawing

319
00:15:24,191 --> 00:15:26,059
maps in the middle of the
decade. We're sort of

320
00:15:26,126 --> 00:15:29,196
halfway between the last
census and the next census.

321
00:15:29,263 --> 00:15:31,164
Texas began with maps that
were drawn to favor

322
00:15:31,231 --> 00:15:34,368
Republicans by adding about
five seats there. That

323
00:15:34,434 --> 00:15:36,737
would also take away about
five seats from Democrats.

324
00:15:36,803 --> 00:15:40,007
So a ten point swing. Those
maps were declared illegal,

325
00:15:40,073 --> 00:15:42,376
a violation of the Voting
Rights Act. The US Supreme

326
00:15:42,442 --> 00:15:45,112
Court yesterday decided to
allow those maps to go

327
00:15:45,179 --> 00:15:47,548
forward, partly because
they thought the court, the

328
00:15:47,614 --> 00:15:50,317
federal Court, intervened
too close to the primary in

329
00:15:50,384 --> 00:15:53,086
Texas, which comes up very
quickly. Candidates are are

330
00:15:53,153 --> 00:15:56,223
beginning to file already
just next week to get in.

331
00:15:56,290 --> 00:15:59,092
And they weren't convinced
that it was going to be a

332
00:15:59,159 --> 00:16:01,428
violation of the Voting
Rights Act anyway. So it

333
00:16:01,495 --> 00:16:04,498
looks like the new map in
Texas is back on, and all

334
00:16:04,565 --> 00:16:05,933
of the activity in the
other states is also

335
00:16:05,999 --> 00:16:08,202
happening.
>> So does that kind of

336
00:16:08,268 --> 00:16:09,903
create an arms race of
changing maps across the

337
00:16:09,970 --> 00:16:12,372
country?
>> It does. So Texas was

338
00:16:12,439 --> 00:16:15,075
first the the main response
to that was in California,

339
00:16:15,142 --> 00:16:18,245
where Democrats decided to
override their commission.

340
00:16:18,312 --> 00:16:19,913
That draws districts by
having a ballot proposition.

341
00:16:19,980 --> 00:16:22,749
They've now created new
districts that add about

342
00:16:22,816 --> 00:16:24,985
five Democratic seats. So
essentially canceling out

343
00:16:25,052 --> 00:16:27,888
what Republicans did in
Texas. Now we've got

344
00:16:27,955 --> 00:16:32,993
Missouri, Florida, Virginia,
maybe Maryland, maybe

345
00:16:33,060 --> 00:16:35,329
Illinois, Indiana, some
other states, Utah. Because

346
00:16:35,395 --> 00:16:38,065
of a court ruling there,
there's a lot of redrawing.

347
00:16:38,131 --> 00:16:41,568
And it's not clear in the
end which party is going to

348
00:16:41,635 --> 00:16:44,238
be advantaged, but it's the
of this process we have

349
00:16:44,304 --> 00:16:46,473
ever seen.
>> In Wisconsin. Is there

350
00:16:46,540 --> 00:16:49,243
any chance in your mind
that new congressional maps

351
00:16:49,309 --> 00:16:52,646
could be drawn before the
midterms?

352
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,216
that timeline gets met.
We're just now beginning to

353
00:16:56,283 --> 00:16:59,086
have hearings and, you know,
in some motions and filings

354
00:16:59,152 --> 00:17:02,055
for those three judge
panels that were appointed,

355
00:17:02,122 --> 00:17:04,391
there's going to have to be
evidence brought. The

356
00:17:04,458 --> 00:17:06,960
judges are going to have to
rule over those cases. If

357
00:17:07,027 --> 00:17:09,930
they decide the
be struck down, then new

358
00:17:09,997 --> 00:17:12,065
districts need to be
created by some process,

359
00:17:12,132 --> 00:17:15,469
either the state
governor, or the courts

360
00:17:15,536 --> 00:17:17,371
appoint someone to do that
process. It all needs to be

361
00:17:17,437 --> 00:17:20,340
in place probably by the
end of March, so that

362
00:17:20,407 --> 00:17:22,276
candidates know where to
file the filing deadlines

363
00:17:22,342 --> 00:17:26,580
in June for a primary in
August. So this was, you

364
00:17:26,647 --> 00:17:29,249
know, a crunch when the
were redrawn two years ago.

365
00:17:29,316 --> 00:17:32,085
But the final maps were
adopted around this time.

366
00:17:32,152 --> 00:17:34,721
The rulings were just
around Christmas time, and

367
00:17:34,788 --> 00:17:36,390
the maps came shortly
thereafter. Were behind

368
00:17:36,456 --> 00:17:39,026
that schedule. It seems
very difficult to get that

369
00:17:39,092 --> 00:17:41,361
done in time.
>> All right. Well, Barry

370
00:17:41,428 --> 00:17:44,031
Burden, thanks so much.
>> Thanks for having me.

371
00:17:44,097 --> 00:17:46,934
>> In other news, to
understand why Milwaukee

372
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,237
ranks as one of the most
segregated big cities in

373
00:17:50,304 --> 00:17:53,507
America, two Wisconsin
based researchers have been

374
00:17:53,574 --> 00:17:56,410
taking a close look at
housing records and the

375
00:17:56,476 --> 00:17:59,446
racially charged language
in them. Here and now,

376
00:17:59,513 --> 00:18:02,516
reporter Murv Seymour shows
us how the Mapping, Racism

377
00:18:02,583 --> 00:18:05,052
and Resistance project
inches toward the finish

378
00:18:05,118 --> 00:18:08,789
line. Despite the recent
loss of federal funding,

379
00:18:08,856 --> 00:18:12,526
some viewers might find the
language in this story

380
00:18:12,593 --> 00:18:15,429
disturbing.
>> This project is

381
00:18:15,495 --> 00:18:17,731
incredible. It's important.
It is not historical. It is

382
00:18:17,798 --> 00:18:20,334
alive.
>> From a place known as

383
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,136
the hub for learning.
>> And it needs to flourish

384
00:18:23,203 --> 00:18:25,706
so that we can continue to
push back against racism

385
00:18:25,772 --> 00:18:27,908
and segregation.
>> Something historic is

386
00:18:27,975 --> 00:18:30,577
happening at Milwaukee's
downtown public Library.

387
00:18:30,644 --> 00:18:35,115
>> It's one thing to say,
oh, there's systemic racism.

388
00:18:35,182 --> 00:18:39,753
It's another thing when you
see the language.

389
00:18:39,820 --> 00:18:42,856
>> It's jarring.
>> Whites only, Caucasians

390
00:18:42,923 --> 00:18:46,126
only colored people.
>> University of

391
00:18:46,193 --> 00:18:48,295
Wisconsin-Milwaukee
professors Anne Bonds and

392
00:18:48,362 --> 00:18:51,098
Derek Handley have been
busy for nearly three years.

393
00:18:51,164 --> 00:18:55,135
>> These covenants cover
housing that is now

394
00:18:55,202 --> 00:18:57,171
predominantly occupied by
African Americans in

395
00:18:57,237 --> 00:18:59,039
Milwaukee.
>> The two have been

396
00:18:59,106 --> 00:19:01,408
leading an effort that
peels back the hateful

397
00:19:01,475 --> 00:19:05,078
history of racial covenants
in Milwaukee County, and

398
00:19:05,145 --> 00:19:10,117
has helped shape Milwaukee
along racial lines. Racial

399
00:19:10,184 --> 00:19:12,486
covenants a clause written
into property deeds that

400
00:19:12,553 --> 00:19:15,122
forbid the sale, least or
occupation of a property to

401
00:19:15,189 --> 00:19:16,757
a person because of their
race, ethnicity, or

402
00:19:16,823 --> 00:19:19,626
religion.
>> We have this deep

403
00:19:20,494 --> 00:19:23,463
history of racial
and I've been wanting to

404
00:19:23,530 --> 00:19:26,166
know more about it, and I
started digging into racial

405
00:19:26,233 --> 00:19:29,269
covenants.
students, you know, why do

406
00:19:29,336 --> 00:19:32,239
you think there are Black
communities in these

407
00:19:32,306 --> 00:19:35,275
different cities that you
go in? By seeing these maps,

408
00:19:35,342 --> 00:19:37,010
you can get a better
understanding to that

409
00:19:37,077 --> 00:19:39,479
question. A lot of
Milwaukee was part of or

410
00:19:39,546 --> 00:19:42,249
the Black population were
part of the Great Migration.

411
00:19:42,316 --> 00:19:45,018
They came here with hope.
There were certainly jobs

412
00:19:45,085 --> 00:19:47,688
over a period of time.
Black people knew what

413
00:19:47,754 --> 00:19:50,657
places they were not
supposed to be.

414
00:19:50,724 --> 00:19:54,161
>> After searching nearly 5
million documents from 1910

415
00:19:54,228 --> 00:19:57,030
to 1960, the Mapping Racism
and Resistance Project

416
00:19:57,097 --> 00:20:01,802
found. Get this 32,506
racial covenants blended

417
00:20:01,869 --> 00:20:04,872
into the language of
housing deeds throughout

418
00:20:04,938 --> 00:20:09,476
Milwaukee County.
certain kinds of language

419
00:20:09,543 --> 00:20:12,312
words like whites only,
Caucasians only. We knew

420
00:20:12,379 --> 00:20:17,484
that terms like and colored
and African and Ethiopian

421
00:20:17,551 --> 00:20:19,653
would probably appear,
because that's the language

422
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,089
that was being used at the
time.

423
00:20:22,155 --> 00:20:25,325
>> We've seen covenants
that mention no Italians.

424
00:20:25,392 --> 00:20:27,694
We've seen covenants that
mentioned no Mexicans.

425
00:20:27,761 --> 00:20:30,364
>> According to the
research, not every racial

426
00:20:30,430 --> 00:20:32,966
covenant explicitly said no
Blacks or no colored person.

427
00:20:33,033 --> 00:20:36,603
Some said white only or
Caucasian only. And bond

428
00:20:36,670 --> 00:20:39,173
says in practice, all of
the covenants they found

429
00:20:39,239 --> 00:20:41,909
targeted Black people. The
one exception Blacks could

430
00:20:41,975 --> 00:20:45,479
live in white only
communities if they were

431
00:20:45,546 --> 00:20:47,481
working there as a servant.
>> Derrick and I could

432
00:20:47,548 --> 00:20:49,149
never have identified all
of these racial covenants

433
00:20:49,216 --> 00:20:52,686
without the work with the
community.

434
00:20:52,753 --> 00:20:57,491
California, more than 6000
volunteers, many of whom

435
00:20:57,558 --> 00:20:59,893
transcribe their findings.
They used a site called

436
00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:02,462
Zooniverse to discover and
meticulously document

437
00:21:02,529 --> 00:21:05,065
racial covenants and the
language used in them. Mary

438
00:21:05,132 --> 00:21:08,135
Roberts says she became a
transcriber because of her

439
00:21:08,202 --> 00:21:10,270
passion for history.
>> You'd have one, two,

440
00:21:10,337 --> 00:21:13,106
three, four, five items of
things that you couldn't do

441
00:21:13,173 --> 00:21:16,210
on a property, and then all
of a sudden, there it was a

442
00:21:16,276 --> 00:21:18,245
racial covenant. It's one
thing to learn in your

443
00:21:18,312 --> 00:21:21,248
history books about how
segregation happened, or to

444
00:21:21,315 --> 00:21:24,518
read about the Fair Housing
Act and to read about the

445
00:21:24,585 --> 00:21:27,221
civil rights marches. But
it was really a whole

446
00:21:27,287 --> 00:21:32,125
nother experience to be
reading property deed after

447
00:21:32,192 --> 00:21:35,362
property deed after
property deed with these

448
00:21:35,429 --> 00:21:38,398
racial covenants in it.
>> Once found, each racial

449
00:21:38,465 --> 00:21:40,334
covenant is verified and
documented by five

450
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,237
different people, word for
word, regardless of its

451
00:21:43,303 --> 00:21:44,838
racially discriminatory
tone.

452
00:21:44,905 --> 00:21:48,342
>> One person was so
offended by the language

453
00:21:48,408 --> 00:21:50,043
that was used in the
covenants that they didn't

454
00:21:50,110 --> 00:21:52,246
want to transcribe that
language.

455
00:21:52,312 --> 00:21:56,149
>> Some of these are like a
they're they're a sucker

456
00:21:56,216 --> 00:21:59,486
punch. People find these,
and the general reaction is,

457
00:21:59,553 --> 00:22:03,490
whoa, like, I don't I don't
want this. I don't want to

458
00:22:03,557 --> 00:22:07,594
be associated with this.
And and for many people of

459
00:22:07,661 --> 00:22:09,129
color, they encounter these.
It's very devastating to

460
00:22:09,196 --> 00:22:11,899
think about living in a
place that was constructed

461
00:22:11,965 --> 00:22:15,636
through this kind of racial
exclusion.

462
00:22:17,137 --> 00:22:21,208
has always been known
within the Black community.

463
00:22:21,275 --> 00:22:24,578
And now we have the
evidence to show people.

464
00:22:24,645 --> 00:22:28,015
>> Racial covenants
prevented access to the

465
00:22:28,081 --> 00:22:31,385
best and most well
resourced neighborhoods.

466
00:22:31,451 --> 00:22:34,788
>> We learned the story of
the Columbia Savings and

467
00:22:34,855 --> 00:22:37,925
Loan.
>> What did this bank near

468
00:22:37,991 --> 00:22:41,161
North Avenue? The 16th
Street Bridge on the south

469
00:22:41,228 --> 00:22:43,964
side, a historic landmark
to the north, and a 1950s

470
00:22:44,031 --> 00:22:47,201
Wauwatosa home to the west,
all have in common.

471
00:22:47,267 --> 00:22:51,205
>> The founding of that
institution was because of

472
00:22:51,271 --> 00:22:54,007
racist housing covenants.
>> They represent examples

473
00:22:54,074 --> 00:22:56,143
of resistance in the
Mapping, Racism and

474
00:22:56,210 --> 00:22:59,313
Resistance project, located
in the heart of what's

475
00:22:59,379 --> 00:23:02,216
known as the Bronzeville
community on fond du Lac

476
00:23:02,282 --> 00:23:04,551
Avenue, this Columbia
Savings and Loan bank

477
00:23:04,618 --> 00:23:06,420
rescued Black families by
offering mortgages at a

478
00:23:06,486 --> 00:23:09,289
time when white owned banks
wouldn't. More than 100

479
00:23:09,356 --> 00:23:13,026
years later, from a new
building, the bank remains

480
00:23:13,093 --> 00:23:16,630
in business. Today, it's
Wisconsin's only Black

481
00:23:16,697 --> 00:23:19,900
owned bank. This historic
landmark celebrates

482
00:23:19,967 --> 00:23:22,936
Boniface and its fearless
priest, Father James Groppi.

483
00:23:23,003 --> 00:23:26,039
Groppi once led nonviolent
civil rights marches for

484
00:23:26,106 --> 00:23:28,876
200 straight days across
the 16th Street Bridge,

485
00:23:28,942 --> 00:23:31,345
which at the time was
considered an imaginary

486
00:23:31,411 --> 00:23:33,146
racial boundary between the
predominantly Black north

487
00:23:33,213 --> 00:23:36,149
side of Milwaukee and the
then predominantly white

488
00:23:36,216 --> 00:23:40,254
south side of town. And
when you think of Wauwatosa,

489
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,556
Derek Handley says.
>> Think about Zeddie Hyler

490
00:23:42,623 --> 00:23:46,860
and his brothers sitting at
night with shotguns.

491
00:23:46,927 --> 00:23:50,330
>> Zeddie Hyler migrated
from Mississippi to

492
00:23:50,397 --> 00:23:54,201
worked at Milwaukee's
downtown post office. In

493
00:23:54,268 --> 00:23:57,504
1955, he became the first
Black property owner in

494
00:23:57,571 --> 00:24:00,741
Wauwatosa.
just a very stark reminder

495
00:24:00,807 --> 00:24:04,044
of what was going on during
the day.

496
00:24:05,245 --> 00:24:08,348
sharing a tiny piece of the
story of his. Against all

497
00:24:08,415 --> 00:24:11,151
odds journey to build his
dream home in Wauwatosa.

498
00:24:11,218 --> 00:24:14,988
>> He was very ambitious. I
have photos of him, and

499
00:24:15,055 --> 00:24:16,723
he's posing with an all
white contingent of

500
00:24:16,790 --> 00:24:19,927
privates, and he's the
sergeant.

501
00:24:20,494 --> 00:24:22,996
>> Mr. Hyler and his
brothers was would sit out

502
00:24:23,063 --> 00:24:26,567
there with shotguns in the
evening to protect the

503
00:24:26,633 --> 00:24:30,137
property from being from
being vandalized. This is

504
00:24:30,204 --> 00:24:33,440
Kern at the same time as
the Montgomery Bus Boycott

505
00:24:33,507 --> 00:24:35,442
in Alabama.
>> Lora Hyler tells this

506
00:24:35,509 --> 00:24:39,413
audience uncle Z was able
to build his dream home in

507
00:24:39,479 --> 00:24:41,114
Wauwatosa thanks to
multicultural resistance.

508
00:24:41,181 --> 00:24:44,952
The home is now considered
an historic landmark.

509
00:24:45,018 --> 00:24:48,922
>> There were 37 or 39
white women in the city of

510
00:24:48,989 --> 00:24:51,525
Wauwatosa who were upset
with the treatment that he

511
00:24:51,592 --> 00:24:55,062
was receiving, showing up
for the meetings, getting

512
00:24:55,128 --> 00:24:59,333
denied, and they basically
pulled together a petition,

513
00:24:59,399 --> 00:25:02,569
which all of them signed.
>> And he had his white

514
00:25:02,636 --> 00:25:06,507
friend buy the property.
And then after the white

515
00:25:06,573 --> 00:25:10,110
friend bought the property,
he then sold it to to Z.

516
00:25:10,177 --> 00:25:13,146
>> And they said, given the
Bill of rights, this man

517
00:25:13,213 --> 00:25:16,783
has a right to live any
place that he can afford to.

518
00:25:16,850 --> 00:25:21,054
So we demand that his
approval be granted.

519
00:25:21,121 --> 00:25:24,124
>> Haley Anne Bonds say the
history and impact of

520
00:25:24,191 --> 00:25:26,460
racial covenants in
Milwaukee is only part of

521
00:25:26,527 --> 00:25:29,196
the story of segregation in
Milwaukee. The site is

522
00:25:29,263 --> 00:25:31,098
still being tweaked, but
they encourage people to

523
00:25:31,164 --> 00:25:33,367
interact with the Mapping,
Racism and Resistance

524
00:25:33,433 --> 00:25:36,436
website to learn about
racial covenants in their

525
00:25:36,503 --> 00:25:38,338
community.
>> You can zoom into

526
00:25:38,405 --> 00:25:41,141
neighborhoods, and you can
look to see where the

527
00:25:41,208 --> 00:25:44,578
racial covenants were and
what the language was, the

528
00:25:44,645 --> 00:25:46,346
year that they were
implemented. We can get rid

529
00:25:46,413 --> 00:25:49,149
of these in our records,
but that doesn't mean that

530
00:25:49,216 --> 00:25:51,185
they haven't already done
the job that they were

531
00:25:51,251 --> 00:25:54,087
meant to do.
>> To help set the record

532
00:25:54,154 --> 00:25:56,723
straight, while helping fix
housing failures of the

533
00:25:56,790 --> 00:25:57,991
past, Anne Bonds says
Wisconsinites should pay

534
00:25:58,058 --> 00:26:00,194
close attention to what's
happening in Washington

535
00:26:00,260 --> 00:26:02,362
state, which has done
similar research.

536
00:26:02,429 --> 00:26:07,334
>> There's a new state law
that allowed people to, you

537
00:26:07,401 --> 00:26:10,170
know, actually pay to have
these records removed and

538
00:26:10,237 --> 00:26:13,440
the funds that were raised
through that removal

539
00:26:13,507 --> 00:26:17,311
process that were then
reinvested in a fund for

540
00:26:17,377 --> 00:26:19,680
first time home buyers.
>> There's a lot of

541
00:26:19,746 --> 00:26:22,282
generational wealth that
was that, that one whole

542
00:26:22,349 --> 00:26:26,153
segment of our society was
cut off from building. We

543
00:26:26,220 --> 00:26:29,122
really have to to face that
if we're going to try and

544
00:26:29,189 --> 00:26:32,292
solve it.
I'm Murv Seymour for here.

545
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,730
>> Now. For more on this
and other issues facing

546
00:26:36,797 --> 00:26:40,033
Wisconsin, visit our
website at PBS Wisconsin.

547
00:26:40,100 --> 00:26:43,170
Org and then click on the
news tab. That's our

548
00:26:43,237 --> 00:26:46,540
program for tonight I'm
Frederica Freyberg. Have a

549
00:26:46,607 --> 00:26:50,644
good weekend.
>> Funding for "Here& Now"

550
00:26:50,711 --> 00:26:52,880
is provided by the Focus
Fund for Journalism and

551
00:26:52,946 --> 00:26:55,415
Friends of PBS Wisconsin.