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PBS Wisconsin original
>> The clerk will call the

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roll.
heels and remained at

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impasse as the federal
government shutdown ground

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into its 10th day. And in
an unexpected turn, the

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anticipated favorite
Democratic candidate for

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governor, Josh Kaul,
announced he would not be

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running.
[MUSIC]

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I'm Frederica Freyberg
tonight on "Here& Now",

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Wisconsin Senator Tammy
Baldwin describes the

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Democratic perspective on
the deadlock in Washington.

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An election commissioner
explains why he favors

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voters proving their
citizenship. And our

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political panelists, Scot
Ross and Bill McCoshen, run

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through the landscape of
candidates for governor.

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It's "Here& Now" for
October 10th.

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[MUSIC]
is provided by the Focus

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Fund for Journalism and
Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

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>> The federal government
shutdown extends into next

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week, with the US Senate
adjourning until Tuesday

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after repeated failed votes
to reopen. We're joined now

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by Wisconsin Democratic
U.S. Senator Tammy Baldwin.

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And Senator, thanks very
much for being here.

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>> Thanks for having me.
>> What is your message to

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Wisconsinites in the face
of what looks like

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congressional dysfunction
as the shutdown grinds on? noboa

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shutdown, and I have voted
seven times now to and

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lower health care costs for
Wisconsinites. And my

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constituents have been
telling me loudly and

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clearly, they are terrified
about the premium increases

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that they see in the near
future. It'll be just a

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couple weeks before
Wisconsinites get those

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dreaded letters in the mail,
telling them what their

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premiums will be next year,
and without an extension of

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the Affordable Care Act,
premium tax credits, we are

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likely to see people's
premiums double, triple,

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even quadruple in those
states that have already

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released the premiums for
next year. Quadrupling is

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not unusual at all, and it
is frightening for

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Wisconsinites. And there's
no reason why we cannot

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reopen the government and
bring down costs. But my

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Republican colleagues and
President Trump refused to

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sit down and negotiate with
us, even though several of

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my Republican colleagues
very much want to fix this

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Affordable Care Act tax
credit issue. And I would

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lastly say this bill that
we, you know, Trump's

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signature big ugly bill
that we debated last summer

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slashes $1 trillion out of
Medicaid and other health

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care program badgercare in
Wisconsin. But it was

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predominantly a tax measure.
And what that tax measure

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did was send tax breaks to
big corporations and

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multimillionaires. And what
it didn't do was extend a

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tax break to working
Wisconsinites to help them

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afford their health care
premiums. This is an

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emergency. It's imminent,
and we need to act now.

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>> Why not vote yes on the
continuing resolution to

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fund the government and
then negotiate?

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>> Look, there is no
promise for a conversation,

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a sort of a wink and a nod
that, oh, we'll bring that

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up later. That is going to
help our Wisconsinites who

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are going to get these
letters in a couple of

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weeks. We need to create
certainty in and replace

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Trump's chaos in the health
care arena and other arenas

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with a vote to extend those
tax credits. Now, listen,

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we are seeing people get
their premium notices right

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now across the country, we
have about 5 million

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Americans who are estimated
to not be able to afford

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the premiums next year. If
we do not act, we must act

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on behalf of tens of
thousands of Wisconsinites

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and millions of Americans.
And it's really critical

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that we not just promise
some conversation in the

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future. That is not
sufficient for the people

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who've been pleading with
me, keep on fighting to

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lower costs.
>> You say that there's an

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easy way out and you've
been working on a

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bipartisan solution. What
is the easy way out and

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what kind of traction are
you getting on on a

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bipartisan solution?
>> My idea and I worked

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with several colleagues on
this, would be to say that

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if we don't act on a longer
term extension, that the

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default position would be
that the Affordable Care

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Act tax credits are
extended by a calendar year.

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But putting pressure on
Congress to talk about some

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reforms in that system, if
we want. I think that's

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fair game. The other thing
we have to get back to is

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letting Congress
appropriate dollars. That

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is the role. It's the role
of Congress as a checks and

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balance to pass laws and to
appropriate dollars for the

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federal government. These
continuing resolutions are

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allowing President Trump to
run roughshod. Since he has

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been president, he's done
layoffs, he's withheld

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federal funds, he's
canceled grants. He's

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basically conducted a
government of chaos. And we

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need to go back to
something that people can

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plan based on, which is our
Congress doing its job. And

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my Republican colleagues
have to stop folding to

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Trump's threats and stand
up and do their jobs as

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duly elected members of
Congress.

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>> I know that the
president has been talking

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about terminating federal
employees, apparently using

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the shutdown as a predicate.
Senator Johnson told us

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last week that when your
company goes bankrupt,

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unfortunately, he said,
people lose their jobs and

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they have to go and find
employment elsewhere. He

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further said he doesn't see
why public sector employees

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all have to experience in
the private sector. What's

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your response to that?
>> Well, first of all,

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President Trump has been
firing federal employees

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and withholding federal
dollars and pulling federal

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grants since day one of his
presidency. Tens of

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thousands of federal
employees have lost their

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jobs because we've been
under a continuing

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resolution. And so this is
a scare tactic on Trump's

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part, but he's been doing
it since day one of his

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second presidency. And as
to layoffs and whatnot in

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the private sector and the
public sector. Look, we've

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gone through planful
restructuring, where we've

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had reductions in forces
before. I held a roundtable

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earlier this year with
employees at the VA, and

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they all recall Clinton era
restructuring, where it was

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planful, and they realized
where they needed to cut

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and not. That's not what
this administration has

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been doing. When Trump
ordered 80,000 people to be

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fired at the V.A. that
wasn't a planful reduction

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in force. That was
scattershot. It was chaos.

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And we owe more to our
veterans than something

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like that.
shutdown, how do you see

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this ending?
>> I think the answer is so

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clear. Let us reopen the
government. Let us extend

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the Affordable Care Act tax
credits, and then let's

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pass our our bills and have
Congress do its job and

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fund the government, not
through these continuing

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resolutions for a week or
two or a month or two, but

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through our regular
appropriations process.

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That's what Congress needs
to do.

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>> Senator Tammy Baldwin,
thanks very much.

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>> Thank you for having me.
>> There could be a

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scramble ahead of 2026
elections in Wisconsin

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after a Waukesha County
Circuit Court ruling that

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directs the Wisconsin
Elections Commission to

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verify whether people
registered to vote are U.S.

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citizens. Republican
appointed Commissioner Don

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Millis is here with
reaction. And thanks very

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much for being here.
>> My pleasure.

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>> So the judge's ruling
requires election officials

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to verify citizenship by
matching voter

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registrations to state Dot
files, with a spring

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primary coming up in
February. How reasonable is

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that timeline?
>> Well, I think it's going

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to be a challenge if that's
the way the order sticks.

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We know that there's going
to be another hearing on

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October 31st, and it's
always possible that there

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could be modifications.
Certainly, the commission

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does have a role in making
sure that people who are on

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the list are eligible to
vote. And, you know, we

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work with local clerks,
1850 local clerks to make

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sure that happens. So we
will see what the order

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ends up being and we will
do our best to comply. At

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least that's how I think we
should be acting.

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>> So you do think it's
reasonable to prevent

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non-citizens from being on
the voter rolls or to

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remove them?
a role in doing that. A

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year ago, there was a
concern about a couple of

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Department of
Transportation types of

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licenses that were handed
or provided to visa holders

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and green card holders.
There was a concern that

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those identification cards
would be used for

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registration and and or
voting. And so we issued a

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directive to all the clerks
in the state to be on the

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lookout for those to see if
someone presents that

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indicate that that's a
great likelihood that that

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person is not a citizen,
not impossible. They could

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be a citizen. And we
provided instructions on

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how to deal with that. So
we've taken that on that

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task before, and I think
we'll take it on again. It

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just depends on the degree
and how widespread we're

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required to act.
>> As to that issue of

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non-citizens holding ID's,
state IDs that otherwise

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could be used as part of
the voter ID law to to vote.

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Your commission told us
when we did some reporting

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on this that there were
only three non-citizens

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that have been referred for
prosecution since 2019, in

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that way, is this a
solution in search of a

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problem, then?
>> Well, I don't doubt that

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the issue of non-citizens
voting is a very minor one.

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It doesn't happen very
often, but part of our role

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is to make sure that
there's confidence in the

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elections. I know I've told
you in the past that, you

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know, despite the fact that
we have some of the best

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technology available, and
we can assure that our

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elections are fair and the
results are valid. But

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there are these things come
up. And part of our role is

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to instill confidence. We
have in the past, like last

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year when we sent that
circular out, we were

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concerned that there was a
perception that those

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widespread use of those IDs,
regardless of whether there

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was widespread use. It was
important that we instill

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confidence. Back in 2022,
there were a couple of

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examples of improper
requests for absentee

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ballots. Now those were
handled properly. Those

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ballots were never issued.
But because the public

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perception we acted and we
took steps to make sure

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that that if that happened
on a widespread basis,

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there would be a way of
making sure that those

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ballots wouldn't be issued
or that people, if they

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were issued, there'd be a
way of remedying that.

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Again, just because
something in fact doesn't

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happen on a widespread
basis doesn't mean that

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it's not important for us
to address the perception,

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to instill public
confidence in the validity

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of our elections.
>> As you mentioned, the

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Wisconsin Department of
Justice has appealed this

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Waukesha County Circuit
Court ruling. And while

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that's under consideration,
the Waukesha judge put on

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hold his ruling that local
clerks cannot register new

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voters without proof of
citizenship. But how would

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citizenship be proved right?
>> Well, that I didn't have

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a huge problem with much of
the decision. That was one

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one aspect of the decision.
I don't think it's a good

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look to tell people you
can't register, especially

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if we have an opportunity
to later verify. I think

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that it is it is a
challenge because some of

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our identifications that we
that are provided to

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citizens are also provided
to non-citizens. So that is

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a challenge. I think it is
more incumbent on the

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authorities, the Department
of Transportation, the

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Elections Commission,
working with local clerks

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to try to identify people
who might not be citizens

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or not citizens and take
remedial action.

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>> But when when you
register to vote, you have

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to check a box. Saying that
you are a citizen under

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penalty of law. Is that not
good enough?

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>> Then I think that for
99.99% of the registrants,

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that is good enough. But
there is again a perception

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that this could happen. And
again, we shouldn't take it

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lightly that that doesn't
happen. You know, we have

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we have examples of double
voting. We make referrals

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to district attorneys
because things like that do

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00:13:37,751 --> 00:13:40,187
happen. It's not widespread,
instill confidence and take

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action appropriately.
>> All right. We'll leave

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00:13:42,256 --> 00:13:44,791
it there. Commissioner Don
Millis, thanks very much.

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00:13:44,858 --> 00:13:47,594
>> Thank you. Have a good
weekend.

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00:13:47,661 --> 00:13:51,231
>> Looking ahead to the
2026 midterm elections,

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00:13:51,298 --> 00:13:54,168
Wisconsin Attorney General
Josh Kaul announced this

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00:13:54,234 --> 00:13:57,504
week he's running for
reelection to that office,

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00:13:57,571 --> 00:14:01,175
not for governor. Where
does this put the crowded

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00:14:01,241 --> 00:14:03,210
race on the Democrats side
and the not so crowded

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00:14:03,277 --> 00:14:06,480
field of Republican
candidates? We check in

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00:14:06,547 --> 00:14:09,316
with our political analyst,
Republican Bill McCoshen

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00:14:09,383 --> 00:14:12,152
and Democrat Scott Rawson.
Thanks for being here.

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00:14:12,219 --> 00:14:15,022
>> Thanks for having us.
>> So, Scott, first to you,

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00:14:15,088 --> 00:14:17,090
would it be fair to say
that Josh Kaul would have

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00:14:17,157 --> 00:14:18,859
been considered the front
runner?

253
00:14:18,926 --> 00:14:21,128
>> Oh, absolutely. He's a
statewide elected,

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00:14:21,195 --> 00:14:23,764
statewide elected official
who's who's won twice in

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00:14:23,830 --> 00:14:26,333
tough environments. So yeah,
he would have been he would

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00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,136
have been a great candidate.
He'll be a great attorney

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00:14:29,203 --> 00:14:31,839
general candidate again.
And I believe that if some

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00:14:31,905 --> 00:14:34,308
changes are made in terms
of the environment, that

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00:14:34,374 --> 00:14:36,810
he'll win again. But, you
know, Democrats have an

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00:14:36,877 --> 00:14:39,346
embarrassment of riches.
really good candidates.

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00:14:39,413 --> 00:14:41,215
They have some candidates
who are still talking and

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00:14:41,281 --> 00:14:44,318
thinking about it. But, you
know, to run against, you

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00:14:44,384 --> 00:14:47,354
know, what I would argue is
the front runner in Tom

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00:14:47,421 --> 00:14:49,656
Tiffany, who is, you know,
basically an extension of

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00:14:49,723 --> 00:14:53,293
Donald Trump and everything
about Donald Trump is

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00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,129
embodied in Tom Tiffany. So
but again, it's about the

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00:14:56,196 --> 00:14:58,031
it's about the environment.
And I think Democrats have

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00:14:58,098 --> 00:15:01,268
to do some things to change
that environment.

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00:15:01,335 --> 00:15:03,604
reaction on the Republicans
part to Josh Kaul not

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00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:06,840
running?
think he would have been

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00:15:06,907 --> 00:15:09,343
the front runner the day he
got in. He's running won

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00:15:09,409 --> 00:15:12,546
statewide twice before.
He's got a record. He's got

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00:15:12,613 --> 00:15:14,781
a base a statewide base. So
it's big news for us that

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00:15:14,848 --> 00:15:16,950
one of the top tier
candidates got out of the

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00:15:17,017 --> 00:15:19,286
way. So that leaves
Democrats I think their

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00:15:19,353 --> 00:15:22,389
bench is a little bit short
right now. The top tier is

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00:15:22,456 --> 00:15:24,024
David Crowley, Milwaukee
County Executive Sarah

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00:15:24,091 --> 00:15:28,328
Rodriguez lieutenant
not former Lieutenant

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00:15:28,395 --> 00:15:30,964
gets in. That would be
their top tier. And I feel

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00:15:31,031 --> 00:15:33,800
pretty good about our
chances against that.

281
00:15:33,867 --> 00:15:37,070
>> So this leaves Tom
Tiffany, you think, who has

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00:15:37,137 --> 00:15:40,374
announced his run in in
good shape?

283
00:15:41,475 --> 00:15:43,443
question Tom Tiffany is the
frontrunner. I mean he's a

284
00:15:43,510 --> 00:15:45,612
sitting congressman.
Congressman. All have

285
00:15:45,679 --> 00:15:49,216
districts with 760,000
people. He's got a base and

286
00:15:49,283 --> 00:15:52,419
it's a very red base. Where
he's less known is

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00:15:52,486 --> 00:15:55,289
southeastern Wisconsin. And
as I pointed out, the last

288
00:15:55,355 --> 00:15:58,091
time Scott and I were on
his show, the deficit for

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00:15:58,158 --> 00:15:59,993
Tom has always been
fundraising. He wasn't very

290
00:16:00,060 --> 00:16:02,396
good at it. He's already
raised more than $1 million

291
00:16:02,462 --> 00:16:05,332
in the first two weeks in
the race, including 250,000

292
00:16:05,399 --> 00:16:08,235
at a single event last week.
So he's going to be our

293
00:16:08,302 --> 00:16:10,838
frontrunner. But I think
Josh is going to stay in

294
00:16:10,904 --> 00:16:13,807
the race. Josh is a you
know, he's got a couple

295
00:16:13,874 --> 00:16:16,109
advantages. Josh is a
younger man. He's 24 years

296
00:16:16,176 --> 00:16:20,113
younger than Tiffany and
he's got geography on his

297
00:16:20,180 --> 00:16:22,449
GOP primary come within 100
miles of where Josh lives.

298
00:16:22,516 --> 00:16:26,320
>> I just want to stay with
you a minute, Bill, and ask

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00:16:26,386 --> 00:16:29,323
you your reaction to your
former boss, Governor Tommy

300
00:16:29,389 --> 00:16:31,358
Thompson, once again saying
he's seriously considering

301
00:16:31,425 --> 00:16:33,927
a run.
misunderstood on that. I

302
00:16:33,994 --> 00:16:36,363
love Tommy Thompson. I
wouldn't be where I am

303
00:16:36,430 --> 00:16:39,032
without him. I think what
he really was saying was,

304
00:16:39,099 --> 00:16:41,468
if these guys don't get out
of the blocks, I'll be

305
00:16:41,535 --> 00:16:44,071
available. I'll be in the
bullpen warming up, and

306
00:16:44,137 --> 00:16:46,240
that would be next spring.
And I don't expect that to

307
00:16:46,306 --> 00:16:49,910
happen, but I love I hope I
have half the energy he has

308
00:16:49,977 --> 00:16:53,447
when I get to be 83 years
old, and I don't expect him

309
00:16:53,514 --> 00:16:55,482
to be a candidate.
>> He'll be ready there to

310
00:16:55,549 --> 00:16:58,252
wish youngster Joe Biden a
happy birthday, right? I

311
00:16:58,318 --> 00:17:00,187
think they know that
they're born on this

312
00:17:00,254 --> 00:17:02,256
basically on the same day,
right? Yeah, but the former

313
00:17:02,322 --> 00:17:04,925
governor is a year older. I
mean, I think the great

314
00:17:04,992 --> 00:17:07,394
news about Tom Tiffany
being the front runner and

315
00:17:07,461 --> 00:17:10,030
he is the front runner, and
I expect that he will be

316
00:17:10,097 --> 00:17:12,199
their nominee. Is that that
nationalizes this race

317
00:17:12,266 --> 00:17:15,302
because he is so tied to
Trump. And, you know, the

318
00:17:15,369 --> 00:17:17,104
definition of fascism is an
authoritarian political

319
00:17:17,171 --> 00:17:21,208
ideology defined by a
dictatorial leader,

320
00:17:21,275 --> 00:17:23,977
centralized governor, and
suppression of opposition.

321
00:17:24,044 --> 00:17:26,313
That is part and parcel of
everything that has

322
00:17:26,380 --> 00:17:29,149
happened in these, you know,
what seems like ten years,

323
00:17:29,216 --> 00:17:31,785
but is really nine months
of Trump being in office.

324
00:17:31,852 --> 00:17:34,087
They have control of
everything. They have

325
00:17:34,154 --> 00:17:36,056
control of the Supreme
Court. They have control of

326
00:17:36,123 --> 00:17:38,058
Congress, they have control
of the executive. And they

327
00:17:38,125 --> 00:17:40,994
are running the fascist
playbook up until and

328
00:17:41,061 --> 00:17:43,630
something on Friday where
they were. They were

329
00:17:43,697 --> 00:17:48,168
calling the march planned
march, saying no kings as a

330
00:17:48,235 --> 00:17:52,105
terrorist outfit. This is
this is not what America is

331
00:17:52,172 --> 00:17:55,342
about. And I would say to
my Democratic friends, if

332
00:17:55,409 --> 00:17:57,177
you don't start treating
fascism like fascism and

333
00:17:57,244 --> 00:17:59,947
calling it out, you can't
expect people to see that

334
00:18:00,013 --> 00:18:02,783
America is in crisis and
that we need to step up and

335
00:18:02,850 --> 00:18:05,252
do something about this so
that we can stop it,

336
00:18:05,319 --> 00:18:06,954
restore the Constitution,
restore our civil liberties,

337
00:18:07,020 --> 00:18:09,957
and stop things like
marauding ICE Gestapo,

338
00:18:10,023 --> 00:18:11,859
disappearing kids in the
middle of the night.

339
00:18:11,925 --> 00:18:14,428
>> Nobody on the dem side
has Tiffany's record. He

340
00:18:14,494 --> 00:18:17,064
was elected to local office,
State office, State

341
00:18:17,130 --> 00:18:19,132
Assembly and state Senate
and now Congress. So he's

342
00:18:19,199 --> 00:18:22,102
eminently qualified. He is
a strong, consistent

343
00:18:22,169 --> 00:18:24,872
conservative. So is Josh
Schoemann. I think we have

344
00:18:24,938 --> 00:18:27,941
an embarrassment of riches
on our side, and it's going

345
00:18:28,008 --> 00:18:29,977
to play out pretty well.
>> Scott, the one candidate

346
00:18:30,043 --> 00:18:32,579
that we've mentioned that
has not yet entered the

347
00:18:32,646 --> 00:18:34,781
race on the Democratic side
is former Lieutenant

348
00:18:34,848 --> 00:18:37,117
Governor Mandela Barnes.
What's your take on his

349
00:18:37,184 --> 00:18:39,920
entry into the race?
>> Well, his supporters

350
00:18:39,987 --> 00:18:42,356
tell me that he would be
the most experienced, best

351
00:18:42,422 --> 00:18:45,058
campaigner to get in the
race if he got in the race

352
00:18:45,125 --> 00:18:47,928
and that he spent since he
left office working to

353
00:18:47,995 --> 00:18:51,198
restore democracy, protect
democracy and lift the

354
00:18:51,265 --> 00:18:54,001
lives of others. You know,
and I think that, you know,

355
00:18:54,067 --> 00:18:56,136
all of the candidates in
this race have some claim

356
00:18:56,203 --> 00:18:59,373
to that, whether it's David
Crowley or Sarah Rodriguez

357
00:18:59,439 --> 00:19:01,909
or Kelda Roys, you know,
they all have that claim

358
00:19:01,975 --> 00:19:04,211
that they have stood up for
democratic values. Again,

359
00:19:04,278 --> 00:19:08,015
the question for me is who
is going to tell it like it

360
00:19:08,081 --> 00:19:10,951
is and step up to this
threat that America faces,

361
00:19:11,018 --> 00:19:14,188
because I don't think we
can win the race if we're

362
00:19:14,254 --> 00:19:16,156
defined by the feckless
politics of Chuck Schumer

363
00:19:16,223 --> 00:19:19,059
and Hakeem Jeffries. You
know, what is going on is

364
00:19:19,126 --> 00:19:21,995
it's unprecedented in
American history. And we

365
00:19:22,062 --> 00:19:25,399
have to look at it that way,
and we have to treat it

366
00:19:25,465 --> 00:19:27,768
that way because the people
want nothing less than to

367
00:19:27,835 --> 00:19:30,070
than to make sure that the
Constitution is being

368
00:19:30,137 --> 00:19:32,105
upheld.
>> So, I mean, swinging

369
00:19:32,172 --> 00:19:35,209
back to the race, bill,
what do you think about how

370
00:19:35,275 --> 00:19:37,845
formidable Barnes might be?
>> You got to remember,

371
00:19:37,911 --> 00:19:41,081
2022 was one of the best
midterms for Democrats

372
00:19:41,148 --> 00:19:43,116
since Bill Clinton was in
the white House in 1998,

373
00:19:43,183 --> 00:19:46,887
and Mandela Barnes lost.
This was the first election

374
00:19:46,954 --> 00:19:50,324
statewide election post
Dobbs. He's one of the few

375
00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:54,294
statewide Democrats to lose
that night. So we're not

376
00:19:54,361 --> 00:19:58,131
afraid of Mandela Barnes
being their candidate. And

377
00:19:58,198 --> 00:20:01,802
to you, if you think Thom
Tiffany's too conservative,

378
00:20:01,869 --> 00:20:04,805
is he more conservative
Mandela Barnes? I don't

379
00:20:04,872 --> 00:20:07,975
think so.
that Schumer left Mandela

380
00:20:08,041 --> 00:20:11,078
Barnes high and dry for
three and a half weeks

381
00:20:11,144 --> 00:20:13,413
after the primary, where
there were no TV ads from

382
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,083
DC coming for Barnes. You
know, you know, I don't

383
00:20:16,149 --> 00:20:18,051
want to relitigate that
campaign. But if you if you

384
00:20:18,118 --> 00:20:21,255
allow your opponent to if
you allow your opponent to

385
00:20:21,321 --> 00:20:23,123
define you, you're in a lot
of trouble. And that's what

386
00:20:23,190 --> 00:20:25,993
happened in that race. I
think it was, you know,

387
00:20:26,059 --> 00:20:29,029
again, it was a it was a
tough loss for sure, but it

388
00:20:29,096 --> 00:20:31,965
was one that's explainable
beyond Mandela's.

389
00:20:32,032 --> 00:20:34,301
in Wisconsin that came back
from a statewide loss and

390
00:20:34,368 --> 00:20:38,071
won statewide is Bob Kasten
in 1980. It's been a long,

391
00:20:38,138 --> 00:20:42,109
long time indeed.
>> That's a deep cut. Nice.

392
00:20:42,176 --> 00:20:44,411
both about the government
shutdown and which party

393
00:20:44,478 --> 00:20:47,214
you think goes down as
being blamed for it, and

394
00:20:47,281 --> 00:20:50,017
whether or not that has any
kind of political legs.

395
00:20:50,083 --> 00:20:53,020
>> It will. I mean, next
week is payday for a lot of

396
00:20:53,086 --> 00:20:56,190
federal employees, and it
needs to get solved. If

397
00:20:56,256 --> 00:20:58,058
Republicans think they're
not going to get blamed for

398
00:20:58,125 --> 00:21:00,327
this, ultimately they're in
charge. And I understand

399
00:21:00,394 --> 00:21:02,863
the filibuster rule.
Frankly, I would do away

400
00:21:02,930 --> 00:21:05,199
with the filibuster if I
were John Thune, and I

401
00:21:05,265 --> 00:21:07,935
would pass the C.R. today.
I think that's their best

402
00:21:08,001 --> 00:21:10,838
move. And I would be ready
with a health care reform

403
00:21:10,904 --> 00:21:14,274
bill in the next two weeks.
>> I mean, yeah, I think

404
00:21:14,341 --> 00:21:17,044
Bill's right. You know, the
Republicans are in charge

405
00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:19,246
of things and the
Republicans own this. But

406
00:21:19,313 --> 00:21:22,416
again, let's see what's you
know, again, back to my

407
00:21:22,482 --> 00:21:24,718
point two centralization of
government. On Friday, we

408
00:21:24,785 --> 00:21:27,054
started to see illegal
firings of union and

409
00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:30,190
nonunion employees in
federal government. Those

410
00:21:30,257 --> 00:21:33,327
by Trump Partizans. And
again, remember all this. A

411
00:21:33,393 --> 00:21:37,097
part of this is about it's
taken the it's taken the

412
00:21:37,164 --> 00:21:40,033
ability of the House to
vote to release the Epstein

413
00:21:40,100 --> 00:21:43,036
files. They're one vote
short. You know, Johnson

414
00:21:43,103 --> 00:21:46,106
won't appoint you know,
won't sit a congressperson

415
00:21:46,173 --> 00:21:49,042
who won a special election
so that that deciding vote

416
00:21:49,109 --> 00:21:51,678
will make this happen. So
again, it's all about this

417
00:21:51,745 --> 00:21:53,780
is about protecting, dear
Leader. It's about

418
00:21:53,847 --> 00:21:56,650
consolidating power.
there. Scot Ross Bill

419
00:21:56,717 --> 00:21:59,620
McCoshen, thank you very
much.

420
00:22:00,187 --> 00:22:03,156
>> Plans are spinning into
motion for a large wind

421
00:22:03,223 --> 00:22:07,027
turbine project, the first
of its size to be approved

422
00:22:07,094 --> 00:22:10,531
since 2011 by the State
Public Service Commission.

423
00:22:10,597 --> 00:22:13,200
The Badger Hollow Wind
Project, with 19 turbines,

424
00:22:13,267 --> 00:22:17,104
will complement the state's
largest solar project by

425
00:22:17,171 --> 00:22:20,107
the same name in Iowa
County. The PSC at the same

426
00:22:20,174 --> 00:22:23,210
time approved a solar
project in Whitewater. This

427
00:22:23,277 --> 00:22:27,181
as the federal government
cuts $7.5 billion from

428
00:22:27,247 --> 00:22:30,017
green energy projects in
several states recently,

429
00:22:30,083 --> 00:22:33,820
not including Wisconsin.
Yet. Against that backdrop,

430
00:22:33,887 --> 00:22:36,290
renewable energy advocates
consider the latest

431
00:22:36,356 --> 00:22:40,794
approvals in Wisconsin a
major win. We spoke earlier

432
00:22:40,861 --> 00:22:44,231
with Chelsea Chandler from
Clean Wisconsin for more.

433
00:22:44,298 --> 00:22:48,769
How big of a win are these
PSC approvals for clean

434
00:22:49,303 --> 00:22:53,974
energy in Wisconsin?
notable that Badger Hollow

435
00:22:54,041 --> 00:22:56,844
to be approved in over 14
years. That's really

436
00:22:56,910 --> 00:23:00,180
significant. We know that
we need a lot more wind

437
00:23:00,247 --> 00:23:03,150
energy, solar energy to
meet our energy needs and

438
00:23:03,217 --> 00:23:06,854
to do so in a clean way.
Solar and wind are the

439
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,723
cheapest forms of
electricity, so it's a

440
00:23:09,790 --> 00:23:13,160
really great win for
people's pocketbooks, for

441
00:23:13,227 --> 00:23:17,297
our electricity bills. And
these also really represent

442
00:23:17,364 --> 00:23:20,400
huge opportunities for
rural communities in terms

443
00:23:20,467 --> 00:23:24,037
of the economics and the
money that is flowing into

444
00:23:24,104 --> 00:23:27,241
the host communities, from
the farmers who signed

445
00:23:27,307 --> 00:23:30,143
leases to host these, where
they get this long term,

446
00:23:30,210 --> 00:23:33,247
stable, high income, which
is helping them kind of

447
00:23:33,313 --> 00:23:36,149
weather these ups and downs
with tariff wars and

448
00:23:36,216 --> 00:23:38,085
everything like that and
commodity crops right now.

449
00:23:38,151 --> 00:23:41,321
And it's a big win for
communities too, who get

450
00:23:41,388 --> 00:23:45,058
annual payments for hosting
these projects. And so they

451
00:23:45,125 --> 00:23:48,328
can use that money to do
things like fix roads or

452
00:23:48,395 --> 00:23:51,965
lower taxes or just
whatever. The local leaders

453
00:23:52,032 --> 00:23:54,768
team is the highest and
best use. So it's great.

454
00:23:54,835 --> 00:23:58,071
>> So the 19 turbines at
the Badger Hollow Wind

455
00:23:58,138 --> 00:24:00,307
Project approved. How much
energy does that produce?

456
00:24:00,374 --> 00:24:03,777
>> It's enough to power
tens of thousands of

457
00:24:03,844 --> 00:24:07,948
Wisconsin homes. Wind
energy is a very efficient

458
00:24:08,015 --> 00:24:10,951
one minute of wind turbine
spinning. Can power a

459
00:24:11,018 --> 00:24:13,287
Wisconsin home for an
entire day. So we're

460
00:24:13,353 --> 00:24:15,689
generating a huge amounts
of energy from those

461
00:24:15,756 --> 00:24:18,225
turbines.
solar? Is that a

462
00:24:19,927 --> 00:24:23,564
complimentary kind of mix?
>> Very much so.

463
00:24:23,630 --> 00:24:26,366
Increasingly we're seeing
projects be proposed along

464
00:24:26,433 --> 00:24:29,369
with storage like batteries.
And so that can also help

465
00:24:29,436 --> 00:24:33,140
store when there's a lot of
wind or, you know, a really

466
00:24:33,207 --> 00:24:35,843
sunny day store that energy
away for some of those

467
00:24:35,909 --> 00:24:37,911
times where we've got less
of those resources, they

468
00:24:37,978 --> 00:24:42,115
work well seasonally
together as well. So

469
00:24:42,182 --> 00:24:44,618
there's less sun in the
winter, although the panels

470
00:24:44,685 --> 00:24:47,754
themselves are very
efficient in cold

471
00:24:47,821 --> 00:24:50,324
temperatures, but wind is
actually more productive in

472
00:24:50,390 --> 00:24:52,860
the winter too, because the
colder air is denser and it

473
00:24:52,926 --> 00:24:56,396
helps generate more
electricity. So they really

474
00:24:56,463 --> 00:24:59,099
do pair well together.
>> We just did an interview

475
00:24:59,166 --> 00:25:01,368
about the amount of energy
new data centers are going

476
00:25:01,435 --> 00:25:05,706
to require. How will this
portfolio of clean energy

477
00:25:05,772 --> 00:25:08,442
help boost that capacity?
>> You know, any additional

478
00:25:08,509 --> 00:25:10,644
electricity that's coming
online is going to be

479
00:25:10,711 --> 00:25:13,480
helpful. But these data
centers are really

480
00:25:13,547 --> 00:25:17,017
representing a massive,
massive energy demand. It's

481
00:25:17,084 --> 00:25:19,887
kind of hard to wrap our
minds around them, frankly.

482
00:25:19,953 --> 00:25:22,956
Clean Wisconsin just did an
analysis that showed that

483
00:25:23,023 --> 00:25:25,826
just for a couple of data
centers that did report

484
00:25:25,893 --> 00:25:29,363
their energy use, they
would use as much energy or

485
00:25:29,429 --> 00:25:33,267
more energy than all of the
homes in Wisconsin combined.

486
00:25:33,333 --> 00:25:37,471
So it's really staggering.
We're haven't been seeing

487
00:25:37,538 --> 00:25:39,973
renewables powering these
data centers yet. What

488
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,010
we're seeing is more gas
plants being proposed.

489
00:25:43,076 --> 00:25:46,113
That's what happened when
we energies territory. A

490
00:25:46,180 --> 00:25:48,815
couple of gas plants were
approved to support the

491
00:25:48,882 --> 00:25:52,052
Microsoft data Center.
We're seeing a renewed

492
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,389
interest in nuclear. I will
say there's a misalignment

493
00:25:55,455 --> 00:25:59,092
in the timeline of when we
have this energy demand

494
00:25:59,159 --> 00:26:01,061
from the data centers and
how long it takes to build

495
00:26:01,128 --> 00:26:03,363
those projects. Solar and
wind are actually the

496
00:26:03,430 --> 00:26:06,200
fastest. They take maybe 1
or 2 years to build. Gas is

497
00:26:06,266 --> 00:26:09,570
more like five, and nuclear
you're looking at a decade

498
00:26:09,636 --> 00:26:11,839
or more. So it's it's a
really tough proposition.

499
00:26:11,905 --> 00:26:14,875
But, you know, every every
bit counts.

500
00:26:14,942 --> 00:26:17,211
>> Chelsea Chandler clean
Wisconsin, thanks very much.

501
00:26:17,277 --> 00:26:19,746
>> Thank you.
>> For more on this and

502
00:26:19,813 --> 00:26:22,149
other issues facing
Wisconsin, visit our

503
00:26:22,216 --> 00:26:26,053
website at PBS Wisconsin.
Org and then click on the

504
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:27,888
news tab. That's our
program for tonight I'm

505
00:26:27,955 --> 00:26:30,691
Frederica Freyberg. Have a
good weekend.

506
00:26:30,757 --> 00:26:32,426
[MUSIC]
.

507
00:26:44,771 --> 00:26:48,008
>> Funding for "Here& Now"
is provided by the Focus

508
00:26:48,075 --> 00:26:51,078
Fund for Journalism and
Friends