1 00:00:08,208 --> 00:00:11,245 PBS Wisconsin original production. 2 00:00:11,311 --> 00:00:14,548 >> It's bad. And we still dealing with things around 3 00:00:14,615 --> 00:00:16,483 here. >> Milwaukee. Cleanup 4 00:00:16,550 --> 00:00:20,654 continues from floodwater. Calamity and FEMA officials 5 00:00:20,721 --> 00:00:24,024 arrived to assess the damage to determine if 6 00:00:24,091 --> 00:00:27,327 there will be federal aid. [MUSIC] 7 00:00:28,695 --> 00:00:32,099 tonight on "Here& Now". While Milwaukee waits to 8 00:00:32,165 --> 00:00:34,935 see if federal aid will emerge, the Red cross is 9 00:00:35,002 --> 00:00:38,839 putting out an urgent call for volunteers. 10 00:00:38,906 --> 00:00:42,342 [MUSIC] doubled since January. What 11 00:00:42,409 --> 00:00:46,313 does this mean for people in Wisconsin? Presidential 12 00:00:46,380 --> 00:00:48,782 threats to alter election systems renews 13 00:00:48,849 --> 00:00:52,186 misinformation over mail in ballots and tabulators, and 14 00:00:52,252 --> 00:00:56,190 changes to student loans may impact the job 15 00:00:56,256 --> 00:00:59,560 landscape. It's "Here& Now" for August 22nd. 16 00:00:59,626 --> 00:01:01,528 [MUSIC] >> Funding for Here and Now 17 00:01:01,595 --> 00:01:04,364 is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and 18 00:01:04,431 --> 00:01:09,002 Friends of PBS Wisconsin. >> Following historic 19 00:01:15,409 --> 00:01:18,178 flooding in southeast Wisconsin, Milwaukee 20 00:01:18,245 --> 00:01:22,182 County's latest estimates on damage to public 21 00:01:22,249 --> 00:01:26,587 infrastructure has reached at least $34 million, a 22 00:01:26,653 --> 00:01:28,956 figure that doesn't include individual property loss. 23 00:01:29,022 --> 00:01:32,426 The Federal Emergency Management Agency arrived 24 00:01:32,492 --> 00:01:36,230 this week to help the state with a preliminary damage 25 00:01:36,296 --> 00:01:39,132 assessment, the first step toward potential financial 26 00:01:39,199 --> 00:01:42,336 assistance. >> Hi, I'm with FEMA. 27 00:01:44,171 --> 00:01:48,609 >> FEMA is going door to door in southeast Wisconsin 28 00:01:48,675 --> 00:01:51,578 over the next several days looking to understand the 29 00:01:51,645 --> 00:01:55,249 magnitude of damage caused by recent record flooding. 30 00:01:55,315 --> 00:01:58,151 >> Any rain water in your basement? 31 00:01:58,218 --> 00:02:02,489 >> Our teams will go wherever the state and the 32 00:02:02,556 --> 00:02:05,158 county requests that we go. We will see as much damage 33 00:02:05,225 --> 00:02:08,462 as they ask us to see. We have four teams in 34 00:02:08,529 --> 00:02:11,131 Milwaukee County, one in Waukesha County and one in 35 00:02:11,198 --> 00:02:14,001 Washington County. >> Accompanied by local 36 00:02:14,067 --> 00:02:16,737 officials, their objective is to ask questions and 37 00:02:16,803 --> 00:02:19,139 collect information. >> Prior to this, we've 38 00:02:19,206 --> 00:02:23,677 been working to coordinate all the information 39 00:02:24,211 --> 00:02:26,213 reports so that we could give that picture to whim 40 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,448 and to the FEMA representatives of the 41 00:02:28,515 --> 00:02:30,717 damage that we've experienced in the 42 00:02:30,784 --> 00:02:33,020 community. >> 211 has been flooded 43 00:02:33,086 --> 00:02:35,822 with thousands of daily calls from residents 44 00:02:35,889 --> 00:02:40,227 reporting their losses. >> Flooded basements, 45 00:02:40,294 --> 00:02:42,329 foundational damage. A lot of people with lost 46 00:02:42,396 --> 00:02:45,332 possessions and couches and furniture and things like 47 00:02:45,399 --> 00:02:47,167 that. So a lot of folks here are hurting. 48 00:02:47,234 --> 00:02:49,603 >> You know, I'm disabled, I need help. 49 00:02:49,670 --> 00:02:51,205 >> People like Tyrone Roberts. 50 00:02:51,271 --> 00:02:54,441 >> We never had this much trash on our block. Now the 51 00:02:54,508 --> 00:02:57,344 garbage man won't even come down the street, so we just 52 00:02:57,411 --> 00:03:00,981 got to deal with it and do the most as we can as a 53 00:03:01,048 --> 00:03:04,952 community. officials recommend calling 54 00:03:05,018 --> 00:03:07,921 two, one, one. >> Two, and one can take 55 00:03:07,988 --> 00:03:10,991 that damage information, residents with services in 56 00:03:11,058 --> 00:03:13,327 their area that can help them. 57 00:03:13,393 --> 00:03:16,396 >> But large scale aid is still a ways off. 58 00:03:16,463 --> 00:03:19,600 >> We're really just trying to get a snapshot, a 59 00:03:19,666 --> 00:03:21,869 representative sample of what has happened across 60 00:03:21,935 --> 00:03:25,572 the county. step in the process toward 61 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,375 getting a major disaster declaration. So here we are 62 00:03:28,442 --> 00:03:33,413 in the beginning phase of here, FEMA will make the 63 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:37,551 president. The president whether a disaster 64 00:03:37,618 --> 00:03:42,189 >> When that could happen is still unknown. With FEMA 65 00:03:42,256 --> 00:03:45,726 in Wisconsin following those devastating floods in 66 00:03:45,792 --> 00:03:48,395 and around Milwaukee. The American Red Cross of 67 00:03:48,462 --> 00:03:51,665 Wisconsin is issuing what it calls an urgent Call for 68 00:03:51,732 --> 00:03:55,369 Disaster Action Team volunteers to help families 69 00:03:55,435 --> 00:03:59,773 both locally and nationwide. Kathryn Halvorsen with the 70 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:01,241 Red Cross of Wisconsin joins us with more. And 71 00:04:01,308 --> 00:04:04,244 thanks very much for being here. 72 00:04:04,311 --> 00:04:06,980 >> Absolutely. Happy to be here. Thanks for having us. 73 00:04:07,047 --> 00:04:10,918 >> So I know that the Red cross responded to 74 00:04:10,984 --> 00:04:14,988 work did people with the Red cross do there? 75 00:04:15,689 --> 00:04:18,258 >> Yeah, absolutely. We you know, we have had 76 00:04:18,325 --> 00:04:20,460 volunteers responding around the clock to 77 00:04:20,527 --> 00:04:23,197 Milwaukee. Originally we had opened two shelters and 78 00:04:23,263 --> 00:04:27,234 then consolidated to Milwaukee Marshall High 79 00:04:27,301 --> 00:04:30,137 School, down to one centralized location that 80 00:04:30,204 --> 00:04:32,406 was more accessible to the clients that we were 81 00:04:32,472 --> 00:04:35,342 serving there. And we were offering everything from a 82 00:04:35,409 --> 00:04:39,279 place to stay and eat, to charge your phone. People 83 00:04:39,346 --> 00:04:42,482 can stay as long or as little as they needed. And 84 00:04:42,549 --> 00:04:45,152 then on top of that, we were always offering our 85 00:04:45,219 --> 00:04:47,487 wraparound services. So mental health support, 86 00:04:47,554 --> 00:04:52,025 disaster support, casework recovery resources outside 87 00:04:52,092 --> 00:04:55,762 of us. It takes a huge effort and partnership in 88 00:04:55,829 --> 00:04:59,600 the community to be able to help those that needed us 89 00:04:59,666 --> 00:05:03,003 most. themselves of your services? 90 00:05:04,004 --> 00:05:08,542 >> Unbelievable. We had 100 local Wisconsin Red 91 00:05:08,609 --> 00:05:11,211 crossers respond, so we started as a level three 92 00:05:11,278 --> 00:05:14,047 disaster, which is basically still managed by 93 00:05:14,114 --> 00:05:18,252 the Wisconsin region. And then we upped it to a level 94 00:05:18,318 --> 00:05:21,488 four disaster response operation. So now we're 95 00:05:21,555 --> 00:05:23,857 starting to see that national leadership support 96 00:05:23,924 --> 00:05:27,828 because the need is so great. So it's great that 97 00:05:27,895 --> 00:05:29,396 now we have that national leadership supporting us. 98 00:05:29,463 --> 00:05:32,966 >> So that sounds as though the Red cross maintains a 99 00:05:33,033 --> 00:05:37,104 presence in Milwaukee. >> Absolutely. Like I said, 100 00:05:37,171 --> 00:05:40,340 we've got seven levels for disaster. And when you hit 101 00:05:40,407 --> 00:05:45,145 that four level for disaster, we've folks from 102 00:05:45,212 --> 00:05:48,081 National that are really stepping in now to support 103 00:05:48,148 --> 00:05:51,518 us and offer guidance and leadership to our regional 104 00:05:51,585 --> 00:05:53,687 team. Of course, we don't want anyone to get burnt 105 00:05:53,754 --> 00:05:56,557 out at the regional local level. So I believe in 106 00:05:56,623 --> 00:06:00,294 total we have over 150 volunteers helping with 107 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,462 Milwaukee Steil. >> And now you're putting 108 00:06:02,529 --> 00:06:05,132 out an urgent call for disaster volunteers. Why 109 00:06:05,199 --> 00:06:08,869 are you doing that? >> Yeah. You know, we 110 00:06:09,536 --> 00:06:14,541 respond to 65,000 disasters every single year. And in 111 00:06:15,175 --> 00:06:18,679 the Red cross, there's a saying and it's we're in 112 00:06:18,745 --> 00:06:20,614 continuous disaster response with disasters 113 00:06:20,681 --> 00:06:24,451 happening more frequently. We're responding to a 114 00:06:24,518 --> 00:06:29,256 disaster, new disasters within 15 days. So just to 115 00:06:29,323 --> 00:06:32,359 to mention too, while we had this flooding happening 116 00:06:32,426 --> 00:06:36,430 in Milwaukee, we also had to open a third shelter 117 00:06:36,496 --> 00:06:39,366 unrelated to the floods because of an apartment 118 00:06:39,433 --> 00:06:43,604 complex fire that displaced more than 40 people. So 119 00:06:43,670 --> 00:06:46,740 this is nothing new to the Red cross. It's just about 120 00:06:46,807 --> 00:06:50,711 building that capacity. Now we need more boots on the 121 00:06:50,777 --> 00:06:53,046 ground, helping us be there for clients when it's 122 00:06:53,113 --> 00:06:56,683 needed most. expect to be doing if they 123 00:06:57,584 --> 00:07:00,420 signed on? >> Yeah, so we have a 124 00:07:00,487 --> 00:07:03,590 really great process. When you sign up through 125 00:07:03,657 --> 00:07:07,294 Redcross.org volunteer, we have a volunteer services 126 00:07:07,361 --> 00:07:10,097 team that is fielding all these new applications, and 127 00:07:10,163 --> 00:07:13,000 then they go through the process with you of 128 00:07:13,066 --> 00:07:16,336 determining where you think your talents will be 129 00:07:16,403 --> 00:07:19,273 utilized best. So I will say first and foremost, our 130 00:07:19,339 --> 00:07:23,443 biggest need position is disaster Action Team. So 131 00:07:23,510 --> 00:07:26,013 you're the first people helping families after a 132 00:07:26,079 --> 00:07:30,751 home fire or flood. Aside from that, we have so many 133 00:07:31,518 --> 00:07:33,820 other positions sheltering positions, casework, mental 134 00:07:33,887 --> 00:07:38,358 health care. It's really an endless opportunities 135 00:07:38,425 --> 00:07:41,061 available to those who are looking to make a 136 00:07:41,128 --> 00:07:43,463 difference. And it doesn't require any previous 137 00:07:43,530 --> 00:07:46,300 training. We offer all the training available through 138 00:07:46,366 --> 00:07:49,603 our volunteer connection portal. 139 00:07:50,270 --> 00:07:53,073 Halvorsen, we leave it there. But thank you and 140 00:07:53,140 --> 00:07:55,209 thank you for your work. >> Absolutely. Thank you so 141 00:07:55,275 --> 00:07:57,277 much for giving us this platform to talk about our 142 00:07:57,344 --> 00:08:00,614 response. >> In other news, 13 county 143 00:08:00,681 --> 00:08:03,183 jails in Wisconsin now cooperate with Ice, with 144 00:08:03,250 --> 00:08:06,553 sheriff's departments either serving warrants or 145 00:08:06,620 --> 00:08:10,490 identifying undocumented them for immigration 146 00:08:10,557 --> 00:08:13,527 officials. And according to latest Ice data, 147 00:08:13,594 --> 00:08:15,462 immigration arrests have more than doubled in this 148 00:08:15,529 --> 00:08:20,100 state since January. As of late June. Ice made 445 149 00:08:20,167 --> 00:08:23,871 arrests in Wisconsin. For more on the immigration 150 00:08:23,937 --> 00:08:27,774 enforcement landscape here, we turn to Grant Sovern. 151 00:08:27,841 --> 00:08:30,577 He's a Madison immigration attorney who helped found 152 00:08:30,644 --> 00:08:33,447 the Community Immigration Law Center. And thanks very 153 00:08:33,514 --> 00:08:35,916 much for being here. >> Yeah, thanks for your 154 00:08:35,983 --> 00:08:39,019 interest. about the immigration 155 00:08:39,086 --> 00:08:41,755 now? >> Well, I can say that in 156 00:08:42,322 --> 00:08:44,424 Wisconsin, we're seeing a part of what's happening 157 00:08:44,491 --> 00:08:47,361 across the country, which is dramatically increased 158 00:08:47,427 --> 00:08:51,598 efforts to find people, to detain people and to try 159 00:08:51,665 --> 00:08:54,535 and talk them out of being in the United States. There 160 00:08:54,601 --> 00:08:58,138 are all sorts of coercive methods, but we have not 161 00:08:58,205 --> 00:09:00,307 seen widespread raids like you see in some big cities 162 00:09:00,374 --> 00:09:03,177 like Los Angeles and Chicago. But Ice is 163 00:09:03,243 --> 00:09:07,047 definitely very active in trying to find people who 164 00:09:07,114 --> 00:09:10,017 they have any sense whatsoever might be 165 00:09:10,083 --> 00:09:12,452 deportable. But the difference is they just 166 00:09:12,519 --> 00:09:16,723 have an idea and can allege that. But we don't actually 167 00:09:16,790 --> 00:09:18,492 know that someone's undocumented or deportable 168 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:20,394 until they go through immigration court. 169 00:09:20,460 --> 00:09:23,030 >> So are most of these individuals criminals or 170 00:09:23,096 --> 00:09:26,300 facing criminal charges? >> That's an easy question. 171 00:09:26,366 --> 00:09:30,204 No. Most of them are not criminals. Most of them are 172 00:09:30,270 --> 00:09:33,307 people who are trying to figure out the immigration 173 00:09:33,373 --> 00:09:36,443 system. A lot of people came in perfectly valid 174 00:09:36,510 --> 00:09:40,380 status over the past 4 or 5 years, maybe 6 or 700,000 175 00:09:40,447 --> 00:09:42,316 people in the United States who followed all the rules. 176 00:09:42,382 --> 00:09:46,086 And now this administration has changed the rules or 177 00:09:46,153 --> 00:09:48,355 ended their programs. So these majority of people 178 00:09:48,422 --> 00:09:51,158 are folks who have been following all the rules all 179 00:09:51,225 --> 00:09:54,161 along, and it's the government that's changing. 180 00:09:54,228 --> 00:09:56,196 >> What kind of catch 22 is that for people? 181 00:09:56,263 --> 00:09:59,766 >> It's really difficult because the government 182 00:09:59,833 --> 00:10:03,370 seems to believe that the majority of people come to 183 00:10:03,437 --> 00:10:05,272 America because of all the opportunities that are here, 184 00:10:05,339 --> 00:10:08,108 and we acknowledge it's a great country. A lot of 185 00:10:08,175 --> 00:10:10,644 people come here for jobs and opportunity, but there 186 00:10:10,711 --> 00:10:13,046 is a really huge percentage of people who come because 187 00:10:13,113 --> 00:10:15,382 they can't live where they are anymore. And 188 00:10:15,449 --> 00:10:18,118 unfortunately, the approach that they're taking, the 189 00:10:18,185 --> 00:10:20,487 government is taking is that everybody just wants 190 00:10:20,554 --> 00:10:23,357 to be here and we can talk them into leaving. 191 00:10:23,423 --> 00:10:27,261 >> Is there any reprieve for people who are like in 192 00:10:27,327 --> 00:10:29,296 the system, in the immigration system, 193 00:10:29,363 --> 00:10:32,266 awaiting a hearing? We're following the prior rules. 194 00:10:32,332 --> 00:10:35,569 >> If you follow the law, the answer is yes. People 195 00:10:35,636 --> 00:10:38,272 who are following the rules, waiting for their day in 196 00:10:38,338 --> 00:10:41,842 court, filing everything the correct way. You are 197 00:10:41,909 --> 00:10:44,411 waiting to be adjudicated about whether and how you 198 00:10:44,478 --> 00:10:47,381 can stay, or whether you are indeed deportable. The 199 00:10:47,447 --> 00:10:50,083 federal government right now is taking everybody and 200 00:10:50,150 --> 00:10:53,120 accusing them of being criminals and saying, you 201 00:10:53,187 --> 00:10:56,190 must leave. So everybody believes in the public and 202 00:10:56,256 --> 00:10:58,158 even the immigrants themselves is that they 203 00:10:58,225 --> 00:11:01,962 have no hope, whereas we have a due process system 204 00:11:02,029 --> 00:11:04,431 that addresses all of these things, and the government 205 00:11:04,498 --> 00:11:07,000 wants to circumvent that. So it costs less and they 206 00:11:07,067 --> 00:11:09,269 can show more numbers faster. Despite whether or 207 00:11:09,336 --> 00:11:11,705 not anyone is actually deportable. 208 00:11:11,772 --> 00:11:14,208 >> What's an example of a case you've handled that 209 00:11:14,274 --> 00:11:17,244 stands out? >> Well, I think right now 210 00:11:17,311 --> 00:11:20,380 I think about a young woman and her children who came 211 00:11:20,447 --> 00:11:23,250 to the US because they couldn't face the the kind 212 00:11:23,317 --> 00:11:26,553 of persecution that was going on where they lived, 213 00:11:26,620 --> 00:11:29,990 and they did not want to come to the US. They had to 214 00:11:30,057 --> 00:11:32,492 leave their family. They had to leave their 215 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,162 community. And they government laid out to be 216 00:11:35,229 --> 00:11:38,265 able to apply for asylum in the United States. And 217 00:11:38,332 --> 00:11:41,468 we're seeing lots of people in this area who have valid 218 00:11:41,535 --> 00:11:45,172 claims or not, but are waiting to find out who are 219 00:11:45,239 --> 00:11:48,108 being deported before they even find out. The good 220 00:11:48,175 --> 00:11:51,144 part is, there is still due process today. And if 221 00:11:51,211 --> 00:11:54,181 somebody can get a lawyer and get through the system, 222 00:11:54,248 --> 00:11:57,117 I think of this young woman who won asylum in 223 00:11:57,184 --> 00:12:00,020 immigration court just in the past few weeks and is 224 00:12:00,087 --> 00:12:03,757 able to stay. It's still fearful because, you know, 225 00:12:03,824 --> 00:12:07,494 she has the color of skin is deportable or an accent 226 00:12:07,561 --> 00:12:10,030 that people are going after. But if you get through the 227 00:12:10,097 --> 00:12:12,399 system, you can stay and it's done legally. 228 00:12:12,466 --> 00:12:15,569 >> Do attorneys like yourself learn where people 229 00:12:15,636 --> 00:12:19,106 deported are being sent? >> That is one of the 230 00:12:19,173 --> 00:12:21,175 hardest things we're dealing with right now. 231 00:12:21,241 --> 00:12:23,110 It's part of the government's effort to make 232 00:12:23,177 --> 00:12:27,047 the whole system more difficult is we represent 233 00:12:27,114 --> 00:12:30,517 people who are normally kept in Wisconsin. But when 234 00:12:30,584 --> 00:12:33,320 ICE learns that they have a lawyer, they move them or 235 00:12:33,387 --> 00:12:36,356 they try and move them without even knowing about 236 00:12:36,423 --> 00:12:39,193 their lawyers status, so that family can't find them 237 00:12:39,259 --> 00:12:42,162 so that they can't make calls. Generally trying to 238 00:12:42,229 --> 00:12:44,765 avoid due process because it slows down their efforts 239 00:12:44,831 --> 00:12:47,234 to reach the numbers they want. 240 00:12:47,301 --> 00:12:50,504 >> Because one thing of note that we saw was that 241 00:12:50,571 --> 00:12:53,140 the ICE dashboard doesn't make recent removal numbers 242 00:12:53,207 --> 00:12:55,309 public. >> I think that's partially 243 00:12:55,375 --> 00:12:57,544 because they don't know what they're doing right 244 00:12:57,611 --> 00:13:00,180 now. There is a lot of disarray where people are 245 00:13:00,247 --> 00:13:03,350 just trying to get to the end numbers and skip over 246 00:13:03,417 --> 00:13:05,352 the due process, so I think they don't actually know 247 00:13:05,419 --> 00:13:09,089 who they're looking for or how many people they've 248 00:13:09,156 --> 00:13:11,358 immigration issues. >> What's happening in 249 00:13:11,425 --> 00:13:14,094 courthouses or in immigration courts where 250 00:13:14,161 --> 00:13:16,930 Ice shows up? >> Well, right now Ice is 251 00:13:16,997 --> 00:13:19,633 trying to make our communities less safe 252 00:13:19,700 --> 00:13:23,170 because people are afraid to go seek justice where 253 00:13:23,237 --> 00:13:26,240 public safety actually happens. Our police, our 254 00:13:26,306 --> 00:13:29,276 sheriffs are trying to help with public safety. Ice has 255 00:13:29,343 --> 00:13:32,546 a mandate to find as many people as they can, no 256 00:13:32,613 --> 00:13:35,549 matter their immigration status, try to arrest and 257 00:13:35,616 --> 00:13:38,352 detain them and deport them before they even find out, 258 00:13:38,418 --> 00:13:42,289 and that that is a problem in between the two. Even 259 00:13:42,356 --> 00:13:44,324 though Ice is considered law enforcement, when we 260 00:13:44,391 --> 00:13:47,227 look at local law enforcement who care about 261 00:13:47,294 --> 00:13:49,162 the community, who live in our community, who are 262 00:13:49,229 --> 00:13:52,432 trying to make things safe, Ice has just one issue and 263 00:13:52,499 --> 00:13:55,402 that they're interested in, and it's even making our 264 00:13:55,469 --> 00:13:58,272 local law enforcement and justice systems much less 265 00:13:58,338 --> 00:14:00,207 safe because people are afraid to take advantage of 266 00:14:00,274 --> 00:14:02,209 them. >> Are you finding that 267 00:14:02,276 --> 00:14:05,646 your client or the people that you work for are 268 00:14:05,712 --> 00:14:09,249 afraid to go out to go to? >> Everybody is afraid 269 00:14:09,316 --> 00:14:11,285 right now, and this is the part the government is 270 00:14:11,351 --> 00:14:15,689 trying to make it so difficult. There are maybe 271 00:14:16,323 --> 00:14:19,493 who are not U.S. citizens, but that goes everywhere 272 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,095 from people who have a green card, permanent 273 00:14:22,162 --> 00:14:25,399 residence status, a work visa, DACA authorization, 274 00:14:25,465 --> 00:14:28,569 and unauthorized. How is it that Ice is figuring out? 275 00:14:28,635 --> 00:14:31,638 By looking at them walking down the street, that they 276 00:14:31,705 --> 00:14:34,842 might be undocumented? They're using systems like 277 00:14:34,908 --> 00:14:38,078 racial profiling or the accent they have. So any of 278 00:14:38,145 --> 00:14:41,381 those people who have those issues are worried whether 279 00:14:41,448 --> 00:14:44,218 or not you're undocumented, whether or not you have a 280 00:14:44,284 --> 00:14:46,186 valid immigration status, and some U.S. citizens who 281 00:14:46,253 --> 00:14:48,388 are worried about the current situation because 282 00:14:48,455 --> 00:14:52,025 the government is overextending, going beyond 283 00:14:52,092 --> 00:14:54,328 what the legal requirements and abilities are of the 284 00:14:54,394 --> 00:14:55,762 government. >> Grant Sovern, thanks 285 00:14:55,829 --> 00:14:58,065 very much. >> Thank you. 286 00:14:59,399 --> 00:15:03,036 >> In a move that had state election officials sounding 287 00:15:03,103 --> 00:15:06,607 the constitutional alarm, President Trump threatened 288 00:15:06,673 --> 00:15:10,677 in an all caps social media post to get rid of mail in 289 00:15:10,744 --> 00:15:14,181 ballots and target highly inaccurate, very expensive 290 00:15:14,248 --> 00:15:18,185 and seriously controversial voting machines. He said he 291 00:15:18,252 --> 00:15:21,488 would sign an executive order to do so. The 292 00:15:21,555 --> 00:15:24,157 president went on to post that mail in voting results 293 00:15:24,224 --> 00:15:27,194 in massive voter fraud. Election experts say this 294 00:15:27,261 --> 00:15:31,365 is not true. The white House press office demurred 295 00:15:31,431 --> 00:15:34,635 on Trump's call a day later, saying it could be a 296 00:15:34,701 --> 00:15:37,271 subject for Congress to take up. But we wanted to 297 00:15:37,337 --> 00:15:41,074 check in with a local election clerk for her take. 298 00:15:41,141 --> 00:15:44,044 Rock County Clerk Lisa Tollefson joins us now. And 299 00:15:44,111 --> 00:15:47,214 thanks a lot for being here. >> Thank you. 300 00:15:47,281 --> 00:15:49,883 >> So what was your reaction when you saw the 301 00:15:49,950 --> 00:15:54,755 call to abolish mail in voting and voting machines? 302 00:15:57,591 --> 00:16:00,427 >> Just another piece that's trying to get some 303 00:16:00,494 --> 00:16:05,566 false information out there to get some headlines. It's 304 00:16:05,632 --> 00:16:09,203 not accurate. Those voting machines are extremely 305 00:16:09,269 --> 00:16:11,505 accurate that we use. Been through nine recounts. And 306 00:16:11,572 --> 00:16:14,308 it's not the machines that have issues. There are 307 00:16:14,374 --> 00:16:17,144 highly accurate. It's usually somebody didn't 308 00:16:17,211 --> 00:16:20,681 sign the envelope correctly. Something small. It's human 309 00:16:20,747 --> 00:16:25,319 error not the machines. >> But beside that point, 310 00:16:25,919 --> 00:16:29,156 can such a thing be done by presidential executive 311 00:16:29,223 --> 00:16:32,226 order? >> I believe Congress has 312 00:16:33,460 --> 00:16:37,197 the authority to change it, not the president. So and 313 00:16:37,264 --> 00:16:39,099 each state actually sets their own rules for how 314 00:16:39,166 --> 00:16:43,537 they run elections. Not not the president. 315 00:16:43,604 --> 00:16:47,341 >> So again, in your experience, does absentee 316 00:16:47,407 --> 00:16:52,079 or mail in voting result in fraud or massive fraud? 317 00:16:52,846 --> 00:16:56,683 >> So the there's a check and balance through our 318 00:16:56,750 --> 00:17:00,320 entire system. Some states mail out absentee ballots 319 00:17:00,387 --> 00:17:03,490 Wisconsin we mail. We only mail you absentee ballot if 320 00:17:03,557 --> 00:17:06,326 you have requested it. And to request it, you have to 321 00:17:06,393 --> 00:17:09,429 be a registered voter. So there's lots of steps and 322 00:17:09,496 --> 00:17:12,299 checks and balances that we go through in the entire 323 00:17:12,366 --> 00:17:17,371 system. So it's not it's not randomly you just mail 324 00:17:17,437 --> 00:17:19,840 in a ballot with nothing to back it up. There there's 325 00:17:19,907 --> 00:17:22,142 checks all the way through the system. 326 00:17:22,209 --> 00:17:27,047 >> What about voting machines or tabulators? How 327 00:17:27,114 --> 00:17:30,584 do they work? >> So tabulators are not 328 00:17:31,385 --> 00:17:35,022 connected to the internet. They are highly tested 329 00:17:35,088 --> 00:17:38,325 before they can be certified at the federal 330 00:17:38,392 --> 00:17:42,029 level and then at the state level. We do public tests 331 00:17:42,095 --> 00:17:44,264 to make sure everything's working correctly before 332 00:17:44,331 --> 00:17:47,201 the election. And then after the election, we do 333 00:17:47,267 --> 00:17:50,037 audits to verify that they counted correctly also. And 334 00:17:50,103 --> 00:17:53,307 again, if we need, we do a recount. And I've been 335 00:17:53,373 --> 00:17:56,310 through nine. And again they don't. It's not the 336 00:17:56,376 --> 00:17:58,946 machines that are the errors. It's it's human 337 00:17:59,012 --> 00:18:03,283 error. It's they're highly highly accurate. 338 00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:06,720 >> Where does all of this leave clerks who maintain 339 00:18:06,787 --> 00:18:11,225 the integrity of elections when it comes to assuring 340 00:18:11,291 --> 00:18:15,762 voters once again that these things, as you say, 341 00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:20,767 are highly accurate? >> So it means we have to 342 00:18:21,935 --> 00:18:25,672 explain again over and over. Sometimes the biggest thing 343 00:18:25,739 --> 00:18:29,676 we can do is invite them to the public, test or or have 344 00:18:29,743 --> 00:18:32,112 them be poll workers. Once they learn the system and 345 00:18:32,179 --> 00:18:35,349 all the checks and balances in place, they feel more 346 00:18:35,415 --> 00:18:37,117 comfortable with it and they understand all the 347 00:18:37,184 --> 00:18:40,187 work that goes into an election. 348 00:18:41,088 --> 00:18:45,425 the roller coaster of election conspiracies? 349 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,632 >> Well, I, I don't have a boring job that keeps me 350 00:18:52,299 --> 00:18:56,403 very, very entertained. Sometimes some of the 351 00:18:56,470 --> 00:19:00,040 things that come in. Yeah, it's up and down. Boring. 352 00:19:00,107 --> 00:19:03,977 Might be nice every once in a while, but we keep 353 00:19:04,044 --> 00:19:08,115 ourselves very, very. We're we're explaining things 354 00:19:08,182 --> 00:19:12,920 constantly over and over. And sometimes that keeps us 355 00:19:12,986 --> 00:19:15,489 from doing other things we'd like to be doing. 356 00:19:15,556 --> 00:19:18,692 >> Like what? >> Getting ready for 357 00:19:20,260 --> 00:19:22,162 another election or training more poll workers 358 00:19:22,229 --> 00:19:24,998 or, you know, working right now, we're everyone's 359 00:19:25,065 --> 00:19:27,234 working on their budgets for next year at all the 360 00:19:27,301 --> 00:19:32,239 municipal levels. There's you know, we we a clerk 361 00:19:32,306 --> 00:19:36,343 does not just do elections. We are basically in the 362 00:19:36,410 --> 00:19:39,246 towns. They're the administrator of those 363 00:19:39,313 --> 00:19:41,949 lot of other jobs that we do. We don't just do 364 00:19:42,015 --> 00:19:44,084 elections. >> Is there cause, though, 365 00:19:44,151 --> 00:19:47,754 to be highly vigilant when it comes to election 366 00:19:47,821 --> 00:19:50,958 security? >> We are always highly 367 00:19:51,458 --> 00:19:55,128 vigilant. We are constantly doing checks and balances. 368 00:19:55,195 --> 00:19:59,766 We are checking security tags and chain of custody. 369 00:19:59,833 --> 00:20:02,503 There's tons of pieces that we're always doing. They're 370 00:20:02,569 --> 00:20:05,506 always in place so that that never goes away. 371 00:20:05,572 --> 00:20:09,209 That's that's constant. >> All right. Well we leave 372 00:20:09,276 --> 00:20:12,179 it there and we wish you luck with attending to the 373 00:20:12,246 --> 00:20:17,150 many duties that you have on top of all of this. Rock 374 00:20:17,217 --> 00:20:19,219 County Clerk Lisa Tollefson. Thank you. 375 00:20:19,286 --> 00:20:23,090 >> Thank you. >> With Wisconsin trying to 376 00:20:23,824 --> 00:20:26,326 tackle a physician shortage, new limits around graduate 377 00:20:26,393 --> 00:20:30,130 student federal loans could dissuade some would be 378 00:20:30,197 --> 00:20:33,333 doctors from going to medical school at all. New 379 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,370 federal provisions passed as part of the One Big 380 00:20:36,436 --> 00:20:39,139 Beautiful Bill act, set lower borrowing limits for 381 00:20:39,206 --> 00:20:43,010 medical and law students and eliminate grad Plus 382 00:20:43,076 --> 00:20:47,114 loans for what the changes mean for graduates and 383 00:20:47,181 --> 00:20:49,483 undergraduates. Were joined by a specialist in this 384 00:20:49,550 --> 00:20:52,286 area, Nick Hillman, professor in the UW-Madison 385 00:20:52,352 --> 00:20:55,022 School of Education. And professor, thanks very much 386 00:20:55,088 --> 00:20:58,225 for being here. >> Of course. Thank you for 387 00:20:58,292 --> 00:21:00,494 the invitation. >> How big of a sea change 388 00:21:00,561 --> 00:21:03,430 is this when it comes to federal student loans? 389 00:21:03,497 --> 00:21:07,701 >> It's significant for two main reasons. One is that 390 00:21:07,768 --> 00:21:10,103 these are now amendments to the Higher Education Act. 391 00:21:10,170 --> 00:21:12,506 So these are now laws. And a lot of student loan 392 00:21:12,573 --> 00:21:14,975 policy has been done through regulations. And so 393 00:21:15,042 --> 00:21:17,778 it's a big sea change because it really 394 00:21:17,845 --> 00:21:20,247 galvanizes these changes into legal statutes. So 395 00:21:20,314 --> 00:21:22,616 that's one thing. Which means it's also going to be 396 00:21:22,683 --> 00:21:25,652 harder to change over time. But the other thing is that 397 00:21:25,719 --> 00:21:29,189 it just really shifts the flavor of student loans, 398 00:21:29,256 --> 00:21:31,992 how students are going to be interacting with the 399 00:21:32,059 --> 00:21:34,228 loan system. And it brings some simplicities to the 400 00:21:34,294 --> 00:21:38,298 system, but it also brings some complexities. 401 00:21:38,365 --> 00:21:41,068 into that a little bit. But have you heard of medical 402 00:21:41,134 --> 00:21:45,973 students say deciding not to attend medical school 403 00:21:46,039 --> 00:21:49,309 because of kind of the caps on borrowing? 404 00:21:49,376 --> 00:21:52,412 >> I've heard rumblings of this. I haven't heard that 405 00:21:52,479 --> 00:21:54,982 directly from prospective students, but I have heard 406 00:21:55,048 --> 00:21:57,417 concerns in different forums and through 407 00:21:57,484 --> 00:22:00,320 different networks about what does this mean for me 408 00:22:00,387 --> 00:22:04,725 in terms of how to pay for college? If loans are less 409 00:22:04,791 --> 00:22:08,195 available to me, then I have two options. I can go 410 00:22:08,262 --> 00:22:11,298 and try to find a loan in the private market which 411 00:22:11,365 --> 00:22:14,401 might have high interest rates. Or I can decide 412 00:22:14,468 --> 00:22:17,037 maybe I should do something else with my career. And I 413 00:22:17,104 --> 00:22:19,239 think that's the tension that either people are 414 00:22:19,306 --> 00:22:21,141 already feeling or they will soon be feeling. 415 00:22:21,208 --> 00:22:23,911 >> So the law also eliminates I understand the 416 00:22:23,977 --> 00:22:27,314 grad plus loan. What will that mean? 417 00:22:28,282 --> 00:22:31,151 >> Well, the Grad Plus loan is pretty significant. 418 00:22:31,218 --> 00:22:35,022 About 17% of all federal student loans are in that 419 00:22:35,088 --> 00:22:38,325 program. And so this is a sizable share of federal 420 00:22:38,392 --> 00:22:40,894 student loans. And if that's no longer available 421 00:22:40,961 --> 00:22:44,064 to borrowers, then again, they'll likely go out to 422 00:22:44,131 --> 00:22:47,267 the private sector, to banks or to different 423 00:22:47,334 --> 00:22:50,170 lenders and take out loans that could be as high as 424 00:22:50,237 --> 00:22:54,174 25% interest rates. These loans currently have. The 425 00:22:54,241 --> 00:22:58,011 plus loans currently have like 8 or 9% interest rates. 426 00:22:58,078 --> 00:23:00,080 >> Do you know what the justification for all of 427 00:23:00,147 --> 00:23:03,150 this was? >> To save money for the 428 00:23:04,651 --> 00:23:08,188 One Big Beautiful Bill act. I believe it's in the 429 00:23:08,255 --> 00:23:10,624 hundreds of billions of dollars. 270 billion is one 430 00:23:10,691 --> 00:23:13,694 Congressional Budget Office estimate of how much some 431 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,296 of these changes have saved the federal government. And 432 00:23:16,363 --> 00:23:19,533 ultimately, that's the end game here, is to restrict 433 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,704 the amount of spending that the federal government does. 434 00:23:23,770 --> 00:23:27,341 >> Back to details. There were also changes to loan 435 00:23:27,407 --> 00:23:30,143 repayments. Is that significant? 436 00:23:30,210 --> 00:23:34,081 >> That is in a couple of different ways. So this is 437 00:23:34,147 --> 00:23:36,316 what I said earlier about the simplicity and the 438 00:23:36,383 --> 00:23:38,118 complexity. There's some things that I think are 439 00:23:38,185 --> 00:23:41,255 pretty popular about the new repayment options for 440 00:23:41,321 --> 00:23:44,291 borrowers. There is now basically just two 441 00:23:44,358 --> 00:23:47,127 different options that borrowers can have starting 442 00:23:47,194 --> 00:23:50,330 in 2026. They could do a standard repayment plan 443 00:23:50,397 --> 00:23:52,266 that's pegged to how much they borrowed, and then 444 00:23:52,332 --> 00:23:55,602 they could do a repayment assistance plan that's 445 00:23:55,669 --> 00:23:58,472 pegged to how much they earn. And so in either of 446 00:23:58,539 --> 00:24:03,210 those cases, the idea is to have loan repayment be more 447 00:24:03,277 --> 00:24:07,247 sensitive to borrowers economic circumstances. 448 00:24:07,314 --> 00:24:10,150 However, there are some details that also make it 449 00:24:10,217 --> 00:24:12,052 more difficult and even potentially punitive for 450 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,788 some of the lowest income borrowers. 451 00:24:14,855 --> 00:24:18,992 >> Interestingly, also, there's new accountability 452 00:24:19,059 --> 00:24:21,995 standards for undergraduates. What's that? 453 00:24:22,062 --> 00:24:26,233 >> There are. And this is something that's really 454 00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:29,469 much on my radar is essentially a bachelor's 455 00:24:29,536 --> 00:24:32,139 degree recipient, has to earn more than a high 456 00:24:32,206 --> 00:24:37,177 school graduate at some point in their future. And 457 00:24:37,244 --> 00:24:40,480 that by itself doesn't seem very problematic. That's 458 00:24:40,547 --> 00:24:43,283 kind of the whole point of education is to boost your 459 00:24:43,350 --> 00:24:46,486 economic well-being. But there are a lot of majors 460 00:24:46,553 --> 00:24:49,022 and academic programs where the gap between a high 461 00:24:49,089 --> 00:24:51,558 school graduate and a college graduate are not 462 00:24:51,625 --> 00:24:54,127 that large. And so these accountability measures are 463 00:24:54,194 --> 00:24:58,632 going to starting in 2026, they're going to start to 464 00:24:58,699 --> 00:25:01,235 identify what academic universities across the 465 00:25:01,301 --> 00:25:04,204 country are showing that positive return above a 466 00:25:04,271 --> 00:25:08,075 high school graduate. And I worry that maybe it's not 467 00:25:08,141 --> 00:25:11,311 this year, maybe it's not next year. But at some 468 00:25:11,378 --> 00:25:13,881 point down the road, a lot of programs that produce 469 00:25:13,947 --> 00:25:16,650 graduates who go into public sector and nonprofit 470 00:25:16,717 --> 00:25:19,186 work that tend to have low wages are going to be 471 00:25:19,253 --> 00:25:22,322 either penalized by being with, you know, withheld 472 00:25:22,389 --> 00:25:24,558 federal funds. Or colleges might just say, we're not 473 00:25:24,625 --> 00:25:27,027 going to do this. It's too risky to run this program 474 00:25:27,094 --> 00:25:29,429 anymore. >> Lastly, do you think 475 00:25:29,496 --> 00:25:33,233 that student borrowers know about these changes? 476 00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:36,703 >> No, I think there's a lot of confusion. And one 477 00:25:36,770 --> 00:25:39,139 of the big struggles that I see and I'm hearing about 478 00:25:39,206 --> 00:25:41,542 is the timeline of all of these changes are supposed 479 00:25:41,608 --> 00:25:45,279 to be taking place July 1st, 2026. That's ten months 480 00:25:45,345 --> 00:25:47,948 away. And so prospective students, current students, 481 00:25:48,015 --> 00:25:50,050 and current borrowers are all wondering. There's 482 00:25:50,117 --> 00:25:53,120 already been several years of a lot of 483 00:25:53,187 --> 00:25:55,189 miscommunication, confusion and misunderstanding about 484 00:25:55,255 --> 00:25:57,925 the student loan system. And I'm worried, especially 485 00:25:57,991 --> 00:26:01,395 as the federal government of Education has laid off 486 00:26:01,461 --> 00:26:03,997 at least 50% of staff at the Department of Education. 487 00:26:04,064 --> 00:26:06,066 I'm very concerned about how this will be 488 00:26:06,133 --> 00:26:08,302 implemented and how well it will be implemented. 489 00:26:08,368 --> 00:26:11,138 >> Well, we will be watching a professor Nick 490 00:26:11,205 --> 00:26:15,209 Hillman. Thanks very much. >> Of course. Thank you. 491 00:26:15,275 --> 00:26:17,244 >> For more on this and other issues facing 492 00:26:17,311 --> 00:26:20,614 Wisconsin, visit our website at PBS Wisconsin 493 00:26:20,681 --> 00:26:23,417 and then click on the news tab. That's our program for 494 00:26:23,483 --> 00:26:26,086 tonight I'm Frederica Freyberg. Have a good 495 00:26:26,153 --> 00:26:27,821 weekend. [MUSIC] 496 00:26:37,164 --> 00:26:39,733 . >> Funding for "Here& Now" 497 00:26:46,306 --> 00:26:48,642 is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and 498 00:26:48,709 --> 00:26:51,178 Friends of PBS Wisconsin.