1 00:00:50,083 --> 00:00:53,120 PBS Wisconsin original production. 2 00:00:53,187 --> 00:00:56,423 >> It's bad. And we still dealing with things around 3 00:00:56,490 --> 00:00:58,358 here. >> Milwaukee. Cleanup 4 00:00:58,425 --> 00:01:02,529 continues from floodwater. Calamity and FEMA officials 5 00:01:02,596 --> 00:01:05,899 arrived to assess the damage to determine if 6 00:01:05,966 --> 00:01:09,203 there will be federal aid. [MUSIC] 7 00:01:10,571 --> 00:01:13,974 tonight on "Here& Now". While Milwaukee waits to 8 00:01:14,041 --> 00:01:16,810 see if federal aid will emerge, the Red cross is 9 00:01:16,877 --> 00:01:20,714 putting out an urgent call for volunteers. 10 00:01:20,781 --> 00:01:24,218 [MUSIC] doubled since January. What 11 00:01:24,284 --> 00:01:28,188 does this mean for people in Wisconsin? Presidential 12 00:01:28,255 --> 00:01:30,657 threats to alter election systems renews 13 00:01:30,724 --> 00:01:34,061 misinformation over mail in ballots and tabulators, and 14 00:01:34,127 --> 00:01:38,065 changes to student loans may impact the job 15 00:01:38,131 --> 00:01:41,435 landscape. It's "Here& Now" for August 22nd. 16 00:01:41,502 --> 00:01:43,403 [MUSIC] >> Funding for Here and Now 17 00:01:43,470 --> 00:01:46,240 is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and 18 00:01:46,306 --> 00:01:50,878 Friends of PBS Wisconsin. >> Following historic 19 00:01:57,284 --> 00:02:00,053 flooding in southeast Wisconsin, Milwaukee 20 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,057 County's latest estimates on damage to public 21 00:02:04,124 --> 00:02:08,462 infrastructure has reached at least $34 million, a 22 00:02:08,529 --> 00:02:10,831 figure that doesn't include individual property loss. 23 00:02:10,898 --> 00:02:14,301 The Federal Emergency Management Agency arrived 24 00:02:14,368 --> 00:02:18,105 this week to help the state with a preliminary damage 25 00:02:18,172 --> 00:02:21,008 assessment, the first step toward potential financial 26 00:02:21,074 --> 00:02:24,211 assistance. >> Hi, I'm with FEMA. 27 00:02:26,046 --> 00:02:30,484 >> FEMA is going door to door in southeast Wisconsin 28 00:02:30,551 --> 00:02:33,453 over the next several days looking to understand the 29 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,124 magnitude of damage caused by recent record flooding. 30 00:02:37,191 --> 00:02:40,027 >> Any rain water in your basement? 31 00:02:40,093 --> 00:02:44,364 >> Our teams will go wherever the state and the 32 00:02:44,431 --> 00:02:47,034 county requests that we go. We will see as much damage 33 00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:50,337 as they ask us to see. We have four teams in 34 00:02:50,404 --> 00:02:53,006 Milwaukee County, one in Waukesha County and one in 35 00:02:53,073 --> 00:02:55,876 Washington County. >> Accompanied by local 36 00:02:55,943 --> 00:02:58,612 officials, their objective is to ask questions and 37 00:02:58,679 --> 00:03:01,014 collect information. >> Prior to this, we've 38 00:03:01,081 --> 00:03:05,552 been working to coordinate all the information 39 00:03:06,086 --> 00:03:08,088 reports so that we could give that picture to whim 40 00:03:08,155 --> 00:03:10,324 and to the FEMA representatives of the 41 00:03:10,390 --> 00:03:12,593 damage that we've experienced in the 42 00:03:12,659 --> 00:03:14,895 community. >> 211 has been flooded 43 00:03:14,962 --> 00:03:17,698 with thousands of daily calls from residents 44 00:03:17,764 --> 00:03:22,102 reporting their losses. >> Flooded basements, 45 00:03:22,169 --> 00:03:24,204 foundational damage. A lot of people with lost 46 00:03:24,271 --> 00:03:27,207 possessions and couches and furniture and things like 47 00:03:27,274 --> 00:03:29,042 that. So a lot of folks here are hurting. 48 00:03:29,109 --> 00:03:31,478 >> You know, I'm disabled, I need help. 49 00:03:31,545 --> 00:03:33,080 >> People like Tyrone Roberts. 50 00:03:33,146 --> 00:03:36,316 >> We never had this much trash on our block. Now the 51 00:03:36,383 --> 00:03:39,219 garbage man won't even come down the street, so we just 52 00:03:39,286 --> 00:03:42,856 got to deal with it and do the most as we can as a 53 00:03:42,923 --> 00:03:46,827 community. officials recommend calling 54 00:03:46,894 --> 00:03:49,796 two, one, one. >> Two, and one can take 55 00:03:49,863 --> 00:03:52,866 that damage information, residents with services in 56 00:03:52,933 --> 00:03:55,202 their area that can help them. 57 00:03:55,269 --> 00:03:58,272 >> But large scale aid is still a ways off. 58 00:03:58,338 --> 00:04:01,475 >> We're really just trying to get a snapshot, a 59 00:04:01,542 --> 00:04:03,744 representative sample of what has happened across 60 00:04:03,810 --> 00:04:07,447 the county. step in the process toward 61 00:04:07,514 --> 00:04:10,250 getting a major disaster declaration. So here we are 62 00:04:10,317 --> 00:04:15,289 in the beginning phase of here, FEMA will make the 63 00:04:15,355 --> 00:04:19,426 president. The president whether a disaster 64 00:04:19,493 --> 00:04:24,064 >> When that could happen is still unknown. With FEMA 65 00:04:24,131 --> 00:04:27,601 in Wisconsin following those devastating floods in 66 00:04:27,668 --> 00:04:30,270 and around Milwaukee. The American Red Cross of 67 00:04:30,337 --> 00:04:33,540 Wisconsin is issuing what it calls an urgent Call for 68 00:04:33,607 --> 00:04:37,244 Disaster Action Team volunteers to help families 69 00:04:37,311 --> 00:04:41,648 both locally and nationwide. Kathryn Halvorsen with the 70 00:04:41,715 --> 00:04:43,116 Red Cross of Wisconsin joins us with more. And 71 00:04:43,183 --> 00:04:46,119 thanks very much for being here. 72 00:04:46,186 --> 00:04:48,856 >> Absolutely. Happy to be here. Thanks for having us. 73 00:04:48,922 --> 00:04:52,793 >> So I know that the Red cross responded to 74 00:04:52,860 --> 00:04:56,864 work did people with the Red cross do there? 75 00:04:57,564 --> 00:05:00,133 >> Yeah, absolutely. We you know, we have had 76 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,336 volunteers responding around the clock to 77 00:05:02,402 --> 00:05:05,072 Milwaukee. Originally we had opened two shelters and 78 00:05:05,138 --> 00:05:09,109 then consolidated to Milwaukee Marshall High 79 00:05:09,176 --> 00:05:12,012 School, down to one centralized location that 80 00:05:12,079 --> 00:05:14,281 was more accessible to the clients that we were 81 00:05:14,348 --> 00:05:17,217 serving there. And we were offering everything from a 82 00:05:17,284 --> 00:05:21,154 place to stay and eat, to charge your phone. People 83 00:05:21,221 --> 00:05:24,358 can stay as long or as little as they needed. And 84 00:05:24,424 --> 00:05:27,027 then on top of that, we were always offering our 85 00:05:27,094 --> 00:05:29,363 wraparound services. So mental health support, 86 00:05:29,429 --> 00:05:33,901 disaster support, casework recovery resources outside 87 00:05:33,967 --> 00:05:37,638 of us. It takes a huge effort and partnership in 88 00:05:37,704 --> 00:05:41,475 the community to be able to help those that needed us 89 00:05:41,542 --> 00:05:44,878 most. themselves of your services? 90 00:05:45,879 --> 00:05:50,417 >> Unbelievable. We had 100 local Wisconsin Red 91 00:05:50,484 --> 00:05:53,086 crossers respond, so we started as a level three 92 00:05:53,153 --> 00:05:55,923 disaster, which is basically still managed by 93 00:05:55,989 --> 00:06:00,127 the Wisconsin region. And then we upped it to a level 94 00:06:00,194 --> 00:06:03,363 four disaster response operation. So now we're 95 00:06:03,430 --> 00:06:05,732 starting to see that national leadership support 96 00:06:05,799 --> 00:06:09,703 because the need is so great. So it's great that 97 00:06:09,770 --> 00:06:11,271 now we have that national leadership supporting us. 98 00:06:11,338 --> 00:06:14,842 >> So that sounds as though the Red cross maintains a 99 00:06:14,908 --> 00:06:18,979 presence in Milwaukee. >> Absolutely. Like I said, 100 00:06:19,046 --> 00:06:22,216 we've got seven levels for disaster. And when you hit 101 00:06:22,282 --> 00:06:27,020 that four level for disaster, we've folks from 102 00:06:27,087 --> 00:06:29,957 National that are really stepping in now to support 103 00:06:30,023 --> 00:06:33,393 us and offer guidance and leadership to our regional 104 00:06:33,460 --> 00:06:35,562 team. Of course, we don't want anyone to get burnt 105 00:06:35,629 --> 00:06:38,432 out at the regional local level. So I believe in 106 00:06:38,498 --> 00:06:42,169 total we have over 150 volunteers helping with 107 00:06:42,236 --> 00:06:44,338 Milwaukee Steil. >> And now you're putting 108 00:06:44,404 --> 00:06:47,007 out an urgent call for disaster volunteers. Why 109 00:06:47,074 --> 00:06:50,744 are you doing that? >> Yeah. You know, we 110 00:06:51,411 --> 00:06:56,416 respond to 65,000 disasters every single year. And in 111 00:06:57,050 --> 00:07:00,554 the Red cross, there's a saying and it's we're in 112 00:07:00,621 --> 00:07:02,489 continuous disaster response with disasters 113 00:07:02,556 --> 00:07:06,326 happening more frequently. We're responding to a 114 00:07:06,393 --> 00:07:11,131 disaster, new disasters within 15 days. So just to 115 00:07:11,198 --> 00:07:14,234 to mention too, while we had this flooding happening 116 00:07:14,301 --> 00:07:18,305 in Milwaukee, we also had to open a third shelter 117 00:07:18,372 --> 00:07:21,241 unrelated to the floods because of an apartment 118 00:07:21,308 --> 00:07:25,479 complex fire that displaced more than 40 people. So 119 00:07:25,546 --> 00:07:28,615 this is nothing new to the Red cross. It's just about 120 00:07:28,682 --> 00:07:32,586 building that capacity. Now we need more boots on the 121 00:07:32,653 --> 00:07:34,922 ground, helping us be there for clients when it's 122 00:07:34,988 --> 00:07:38,559 needed most. expect to be doing if they 123 00:07:39,459 --> 00:07:42,296 signed on? >> Yeah, so we have a 124 00:07:42,362 --> 00:07:45,465 really great process. When you sign up through 125 00:07:45,532 --> 00:07:49,169 Redcross.org volunteer, we have a volunteer services 126 00:07:49,236 --> 00:07:51,972 team that is fielding all these new applications, and 127 00:07:52,039 --> 00:07:54,875 then they go through the process with you of 128 00:07:54,942 --> 00:07:58,212 determining where you think your talents will be 129 00:07:58,278 --> 00:08:01,148 utilized best. So I will say first and foremost, our 130 00:08:01,215 --> 00:08:05,319 biggest need position is disaster Action Team. So 131 00:08:05,385 --> 00:08:07,888 you're the first people helping families after a 132 00:08:07,955 --> 00:08:12,626 home fire or flood. Aside from that, we have so many 133 00:08:13,393 --> 00:08:15,696 other positions sheltering positions, casework, mental 134 00:08:15,762 --> 00:08:20,234 health care. It's really an endless opportunities 135 00:08:20,300 --> 00:08:22,936 available to those who are looking to make a 136 00:08:23,003 --> 00:08:25,339 difference. And it doesn't require any previous 137 00:08:25,405 --> 00:08:28,175 training. We offer all the training available through 138 00:08:28,242 --> 00:08:31,478 our volunteer connection portal. 139 00:08:32,145 --> 00:08:34,948 Halvorsen, we leave it there. But thank you and 140 00:08:35,015 --> 00:08:37,084 thank you for your work. >> Absolutely. Thank you so 141 00:08:37,150 --> 00:08:39,152 much for giving us this platform to talk about our 142 00:08:39,219 --> 00:08:42,489 response. >> In other news, 13 county 143 00:08:42,556 --> 00:08:45,058 jails in Wisconsin now cooperate with Ice, with 144 00:08:45,125 --> 00:08:48,428 sheriff's departments either serving warrants or 145 00:08:48,495 --> 00:08:52,366 identifying undocumented them for immigration 146 00:08:52,432 --> 00:08:55,402 officials. And according to latest Ice data, 147 00:08:55,469 --> 00:08:57,337 immigration arrests have more than doubled in this 148 00:08:57,404 --> 00:09:01,975 state since January. As of late June. Ice made 445 149 00:09:02,042 --> 00:09:05,746 arrests in Wisconsin. For more on the immigration 150 00:09:05,812 --> 00:09:09,650 enforcement landscape here, we turn to Grant Sovern. 151 00:09:09,716 --> 00:09:12,452 He's a Madison immigration attorney who helped found 152 00:09:12,519 --> 00:09:15,322 the Community Immigration Law Center. And thanks very 153 00:09:15,389 --> 00:09:17,791 much for being here. >> Yeah, thanks for your 154 00:09:17,858 --> 00:09:20,894 interest. about the immigration 155 00:09:20,961 --> 00:09:23,630 now? >> Well, I can say that in 156 00:09:24,198 --> 00:09:26,300 Wisconsin, we're seeing a part of what's happening 157 00:09:26,366 --> 00:09:29,236 across the country, which is dramatically increased 158 00:09:29,303 --> 00:09:33,473 efforts to find people, to detain people and to try 159 00:09:33,540 --> 00:09:36,410 and talk them out of being in the United States. There 160 00:09:36,476 --> 00:09:40,013 are all sorts of coercive methods, but we have not 161 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,182 seen widespread raids like you see in some big cities 162 00:09:42,249 --> 00:09:45,052 like Los Angeles and Chicago. But Ice is 163 00:09:45,118 --> 00:09:48,922 definitely very active in trying to find people who 164 00:09:48,989 --> 00:09:51,892 they have any sense whatsoever might be 165 00:09:51,959 --> 00:09:54,328 deportable. But the difference is they just 166 00:09:54,394 --> 00:09:58,599 have an idea and can allege that. But we don't actually 167 00:09:58,665 --> 00:10:00,367 know that someone's undocumented or deportable 168 00:10:00,434 --> 00:10:02,269 until they go through immigration court. 169 00:10:02,336 --> 00:10:04,905 >> So are most of these individuals criminals or 170 00:10:04,972 --> 00:10:08,175 facing criminal charges? >> That's an easy question. 171 00:10:08,242 --> 00:10:12,079 No. Most of them are not criminals. Most of them are 172 00:10:12,145 --> 00:10:15,182 people who are trying to figure out the immigration 173 00:10:15,249 --> 00:10:18,318 system. A lot of people came in perfectly valid 174 00:10:18,385 --> 00:10:22,256 status over the past 4 or 5 years, maybe 6 or 700,000 175 00:10:22,322 --> 00:10:24,191 people in the United States who followed all the rules. 176 00:10:24,258 --> 00:10:27,961 And now this administration has changed the rules or 177 00:10:28,028 --> 00:10:30,230 ended their programs. So these majority of people 178 00:10:30,297 --> 00:10:33,033 are folks who have been following all the rules all 179 00:10:33,100 --> 00:10:36,036 along, and it's the government that's changing. 180 00:10:36,103 --> 00:10:38,071 >> What kind of catch 22 is that for people? 181 00:10:38,138 --> 00:10:41,642 >> It's really difficult because the government 182 00:10:41,708 --> 00:10:45,245 seems to believe that the majority of people come to 183 00:10:45,312 --> 00:10:47,147 America because of all the opportunities that are here, 184 00:10:47,214 --> 00:10:49,983 and we acknowledge it's a great country. A lot of 185 00:10:50,050 --> 00:10:52,519 people come here for jobs and opportunity, but there 186 00:10:52,586 --> 00:10:54,922 is a really huge percentage of people who come because 187 00:10:54,988 --> 00:10:57,257 they can't live where they are anymore. And 188 00:10:57,324 --> 00:10:59,993 unfortunately, the approach that they're taking, the 189 00:11:00,060 --> 00:11:02,362 government is taking is that everybody just wants 190 00:11:02,429 --> 00:11:05,232 to be here and we can talk them into leaving. 191 00:11:05,299 --> 00:11:09,136 >> Is there any reprieve for people who are like in 192 00:11:09,203 --> 00:11:11,171 the system, in the immigration system, 193 00:11:11,238 --> 00:11:14,141 awaiting a hearing? We're following the prior rules. 194 00:11:14,208 --> 00:11:17,444 >> If you follow the law, the answer is yes. People 195 00:11:17,511 --> 00:11:20,147 who are following the rules, waiting for their day in 196 00:11:20,214 --> 00:11:23,717 court, filing everything the correct way. You are 197 00:11:23,784 --> 00:11:26,286 waiting to be adjudicated about whether and how you 198 00:11:26,353 --> 00:11:29,256 can stay, or whether you are indeed deportable. The 199 00:11:29,323 --> 00:11:31,959 federal government right now is taking everybody and 200 00:11:32,025 --> 00:11:34,995 accusing them of being criminals and saying, you 201 00:11:35,062 --> 00:11:38,065 must leave. So everybody believes in the public and 202 00:11:38,131 --> 00:11:40,033 even the immigrants themselves is that they 203 00:11:40,100 --> 00:11:43,837 have no hope, whereas we have a due process system 204 00:11:43,904 --> 00:11:46,306 that addresses all of these things, and the government 205 00:11:46,373 --> 00:11:48,876 wants to circumvent that. So it costs less and they 206 00:11:48,942 --> 00:11:51,144 can show more numbers faster. Despite whether or 207 00:11:51,211 --> 00:11:53,580 not anyone is actually deportable. 208 00:11:53,647 --> 00:11:56,083 >> What's an example of a case you've handled that 209 00:11:56,149 --> 00:11:59,119 stands out? >> Well, I think right now 210 00:11:59,186 --> 00:12:02,256 I think about a young woman and her children who came 211 00:12:02,322 --> 00:12:05,125 to the US because they couldn't face the the kind 212 00:12:05,192 --> 00:12:08,428 of persecution that was going on where they lived, 213 00:12:08,495 --> 00:12:11,865 and they did not want to come to the US. They had to 214 00:12:11,932 --> 00:12:14,368 leave their family. They had to leave their 215 00:12:14,434 --> 00:12:17,037 community. And they government laid out to be 216 00:12:17,104 --> 00:12:20,140 able to apply for asylum in the United States. And 217 00:12:20,207 --> 00:12:23,343 we're seeing lots of people in this area who have valid 218 00:12:23,410 --> 00:12:27,047 claims or not, but are waiting to find out who are 219 00:12:27,114 --> 00:12:29,983 being deported before they even find out. The good 220 00:12:30,050 --> 00:12:33,020 part is, there is still due process today. And if 221 00:12:33,086 --> 00:12:36,056 somebody can get a lawyer and get through the system, 222 00:12:36,123 --> 00:12:38,992 I think of this young woman who won asylum in 223 00:12:39,059 --> 00:12:41,895 immigration court just in the past few weeks and is 224 00:12:41,962 --> 00:12:45,632 able to stay. It's still fearful because, you know, 225 00:12:45,699 --> 00:12:49,369 she has the color of skin is deportable or an accent 226 00:12:49,436 --> 00:12:51,905 that people are going after. But if you get through the 227 00:12:51,972 --> 00:12:54,274 system, you can stay and it's done legally. 228 00:12:54,341 --> 00:12:57,444 >> Do attorneys like yourself learn where people 229 00:12:57,511 --> 00:13:00,981 deported are being sent? >> That is one of the 230 00:13:01,048 --> 00:13:03,050 hardest things we're dealing with right now. 231 00:13:03,116 --> 00:13:04,985 It's part of the government's effort to make 232 00:13:05,052 --> 00:13:08,922 the whole system more difficult is we represent 233 00:13:08,989 --> 00:13:12,392 people who are normally kept in Wisconsin. But when 234 00:13:12,459 --> 00:13:15,195 ICE learns that they have a lawyer, they move them or 235 00:13:15,262 --> 00:13:18,232 they try and move them without even knowing about 236 00:13:18,298 --> 00:13:21,068 their lawyers status, so that family can't find them 237 00:13:21,134 --> 00:13:24,037 so that they can't make calls. Generally trying to 238 00:13:24,104 --> 00:13:26,640 avoid due process because it slows down their efforts 239 00:13:26,707 --> 00:13:29,109 to reach the numbers they want. 240 00:13:29,176 --> 00:13:32,379 >> Because one thing of note that we saw was that 241 00:13:32,446 --> 00:13:35,015 the ICE dashboard doesn't make recent removal numbers 242 00:13:35,082 --> 00:13:37,184 public. >> I think that's partially 243 00:13:37,251 --> 00:13:39,419 because they don't know what they're doing right 244 00:13:39,486 --> 00:13:42,055 now. There is a lot of disarray where people are 245 00:13:42,122 --> 00:13:45,225 just trying to get to the end numbers and skip over 246 00:13:45,292 --> 00:13:47,227 the due process, so I think they don't actually know 247 00:13:47,294 --> 00:13:50,964 who they're looking for or how many people they've 248 00:13:51,031 --> 00:13:53,233 immigration issues. >> What's happening in 249 00:13:53,300 --> 00:13:55,969 courthouses or in immigration courts where 250 00:13:56,036 --> 00:13:58,805 Ice shows up? >> Well, right now Ice is 251 00:13:58,872 --> 00:14:01,508 trying to make our communities less safe 252 00:14:01,575 --> 00:14:05,045 because people are afraid to go seek justice where 253 00:14:05,112 --> 00:14:08,115 public safety actually happens. Our police, our 254 00:14:08,182 --> 00:14:11,151 sheriffs are trying to help with public safety. Ice has 255 00:14:11,218 --> 00:14:14,421 a mandate to find as many people as they can, no 256 00:14:14,488 --> 00:14:17,424 matter their immigration status, try to arrest and 257 00:14:17,491 --> 00:14:20,227 detain them and deport them before they even find out, 258 00:14:20,294 --> 00:14:24,164 and that that is a problem in between the two. Even 259 00:14:24,231 --> 00:14:26,200 though Ice is considered law enforcement, when we 260 00:14:26,266 --> 00:14:29,102 look at local law enforcement who care about 261 00:14:29,169 --> 00:14:31,038 the community, who live in our community, who are 262 00:14:31,104 --> 00:14:34,308 trying to make things safe, Ice has just one issue and 263 00:14:34,374 --> 00:14:37,277 that they're interested in, and it's even making our 264 00:14:37,344 --> 00:14:40,147 local law enforcement and justice systems much less 265 00:14:40,214 --> 00:14:42,082 safe because people are afraid to take advantage of 266 00:14:42,149 --> 00:14:44,084 them. >> Are you finding that 267 00:14:44,151 --> 00:14:47,521 your client or the people that you work for are 268 00:14:47,588 --> 00:14:51,124 afraid to go out to go to? >> Everybody is afraid 269 00:14:51,191 --> 00:14:53,160 right now, and this is the part the government is 270 00:14:53,227 --> 00:14:57,564 trying to make it so difficult. There are maybe 271 00:14:58,198 --> 00:15:01,368 who are not U.S. citizens, but that goes everywhere 272 00:15:01,435 --> 00:15:03,971 from people who have a green card, permanent 273 00:15:04,037 --> 00:15:07,274 residence status, a work visa, DACA authorization, 274 00:15:07,341 --> 00:15:10,444 and unauthorized. How is it that Ice is figuring out? 275 00:15:10,511 --> 00:15:13,514 By looking at them walking down the street, that they 276 00:15:13,580 --> 00:15:16,717 might be undocumented? They're using systems like 277 00:15:16,783 --> 00:15:19,953 racial profiling or the accent they have. So any of 278 00:15:20,020 --> 00:15:23,257 those people who have those issues are worried whether 279 00:15:23,323 --> 00:15:26,093 or not you're undocumented, whether or not you have a 280 00:15:26,159 --> 00:15:28,061 valid immigration status, and some U.S. citizens who 281 00:15:28,128 --> 00:15:30,264 are worried about the current situation because 282 00:15:30,330 --> 00:15:33,901 the government is overextending, going beyond 283 00:15:33,967 --> 00:15:36,203 what the legal requirements and abilities are of the 284 00:15:36,270 --> 00:15:37,638 government. >> Grant Sovern, thanks 285 00:15:37,704 --> 00:15:39,940 very much. >> Thank you. 286 00:15:41,275 --> 00:15:44,912 >> In a move that had state election officials sounding 287 00:15:44,978 --> 00:15:48,482 the constitutional alarm, President Trump threatened 288 00:15:48,549 --> 00:15:52,553 in an all caps social media post to get rid of mail in 289 00:15:52,619 --> 00:15:56,056 ballots and target highly inaccurate, very expensive 290 00:15:56,123 --> 00:16:00,060 and seriously controversial voting machines. He said he 291 00:16:00,127 --> 00:16:03,363 would sign an executive order to do so. The 292 00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:06,033 president went on to post that mail in voting results 293 00:16:06,099 --> 00:16:09,069 in massive voter fraud. Election experts say this 294 00:16:09,136 --> 00:16:13,240 is not true. The white House press office demurred 295 00:16:13,307 --> 00:16:16,510 on Trump's call a day later, saying it could be a 296 00:16:16,577 --> 00:16:19,146 subject for Congress to take up. But we wanted to 297 00:16:19,213 --> 00:16:22,950 check in with a local election clerk for her take. 298 00:16:23,016 --> 00:16:25,919 Rock County Clerk Lisa Tollefson joins us now. And 299 00:16:25,986 --> 00:16:29,089 thanks a lot for being here. >> Thank you. 300 00:16:29,156 --> 00:16:31,758 >> So what was your reaction when you saw the 301 00:16:31,825 --> 00:16:36,630 call to abolish mail in voting and voting machines? 302 00:16:39,466 --> 00:16:42,302 >> Just another piece that's trying to get some 303 00:16:42,369 --> 00:16:47,441 false information out there to get some headlines. It's 304 00:16:47,508 --> 00:16:51,078 not accurate. Those voting machines are extremely 305 00:16:51,144 --> 00:16:53,380 accurate that we use. Been through nine recounts. And 306 00:16:53,447 --> 00:16:56,183 it's not the machines that have issues. There are 307 00:16:56,250 --> 00:16:59,019 highly accurate. It's usually somebody didn't 308 00:16:59,086 --> 00:17:02,556 sign the envelope correctly. Something small. It's human 309 00:17:02,623 --> 00:17:07,194 error not the machines. >> But beside that point, 310 00:17:07,794 --> 00:17:11,031 can such a thing be done by presidential executive 311 00:17:11,098 --> 00:17:14,101 order? >> I believe Congress has 312 00:17:15,335 --> 00:17:19,072 the authority to change it, not the president. So and 313 00:17:19,139 --> 00:17:20,974 each state actually sets their own rules for how 314 00:17:21,041 --> 00:17:25,412 they run elections. Not not the president. 315 00:17:25,479 --> 00:17:29,216 >> So again, in your experience, does absentee 316 00:17:29,283 --> 00:17:33,954 or mail in voting result in fraud or massive fraud? 317 00:17:34,721 --> 00:17:38,559 >> So the there's a check and balance through our 318 00:17:38,625 --> 00:17:42,196 entire system. Some states mail out absentee ballots 319 00:17:42,262 --> 00:17:45,365 Wisconsin we mail. We only mail you absentee ballot if 320 00:17:45,432 --> 00:17:48,202 you have requested it. And to request it, you have to 321 00:17:48,268 --> 00:17:51,305 be a registered voter. So there's lots of steps and 322 00:17:51,371 --> 00:17:54,174 checks and balances that we go through in the entire 323 00:17:54,241 --> 00:17:59,246 system. So it's not it's not randomly you just mail 324 00:17:59,313 --> 00:18:01,715 in a ballot with nothing to back it up. There there's 325 00:18:01,782 --> 00:18:04,017 checks all the way through the system. 326 00:18:04,084 --> 00:18:08,922 >> What about voting machines or tabulators? How 327 00:18:08,989 --> 00:18:12,459 do they work? >> So tabulators are not 328 00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:16,897 connected to the internet. They are highly tested 329 00:18:16,964 --> 00:18:20,200 before they can be certified at the federal 330 00:18:20,267 --> 00:18:23,904 level and then at the state level. We do public tests 331 00:18:23,971 --> 00:18:26,139 to make sure everything's working correctly before 332 00:18:26,206 --> 00:18:29,076 the election. And then after the election, we do 333 00:18:29,142 --> 00:18:31,912 audits to verify that they counted correctly also. And 334 00:18:31,979 --> 00:18:35,182 again, if we need, we do a recount. And I've been 335 00:18:35,249 --> 00:18:38,185 through nine. And again they don't. It's not the 336 00:18:38,252 --> 00:18:40,821 machines that are the errors. It's it's human 337 00:18:40,888 --> 00:18:45,158 error. It's they're highly highly accurate. 338 00:18:45,225 --> 00:18:48,595 >> Where does all of this leave clerks who maintain 339 00:18:48,662 --> 00:18:53,100 the integrity of elections when it comes to assuring 340 00:18:53,166 --> 00:18:57,638 voters once again that these things, as you say, 341 00:18:58,505 --> 00:19:02,643 are highly accurate? >> So it means we have to 342 00:19:03,810 --> 00:19:07,548 explain again over and over. Sometimes the biggest thing 343 00:19:07,614 --> 00:19:11,552 we can do is invite them to the public, test or or have 344 00:19:11,618 --> 00:19:13,987 them be poll workers. Once they learn the system and 345 00:19:14,054 --> 00:19:17,224 all the checks and balances in place, they feel more 346 00:19:17,291 --> 00:19:18,992 comfortable with it and they understand all the 347 00:19:19,059 --> 00:19:22,062 work that goes into an election. 348 00:19:22,963 --> 00:19:27,301 the roller coaster of election conspiracies? 349 00:19:29,036 --> 00:19:33,507 >> Well, I, I don't have a boring job that keeps me 350 00:19:34,174 --> 00:19:38,278 very, very entertained. Sometimes some of the 351 00:19:38,345 --> 00:19:41,915 things that come in. Yeah, it's up and down. Boring. 352 00:19:41,982 --> 00:19:45,853 Might be nice every once in a while, but we keep 353 00:19:45,919 --> 00:19:49,990 ourselves very, very. We're we're explaining things 354 00:19:50,057 --> 00:19:54,795 constantly over and over. And sometimes that keeps us 355 00:19:54,862 --> 00:19:57,364 from doing other things we'd like to be doing. 356 00:19:57,431 --> 00:20:00,567 >> Like what? >> Getting ready for 357 00:20:02,135 --> 00:20:04,037 another election or training more poll workers 358 00:20:04,104 --> 00:20:06,874 or, you know, working right now, we're everyone's 359 00:20:06,940 --> 00:20:09,109 working on their budgets for next year at all the 360 00:20:09,176 --> 00:20:14,114 municipal levels. There's you know, we we a clerk 361 00:20:14,181 --> 00:20:18,218 does not just do elections. We are basically in the 362 00:20:18,285 --> 00:20:21,121 towns. They're the administrator of those 363 00:20:21,188 --> 00:20:23,824 lot of other jobs that we do. We don't just do 364 00:20:23,891 --> 00:20:25,959 elections. >> Is there cause, though, 365 00:20:26,026 --> 00:20:29,630 to be highly vigilant when it comes to election 366 00:20:29,696 --> 00:20:32,833 security? >> We are always highly 367 00:20:33,333 --> 00:20:37,004 vigilant. We are constantly doing checks and balances. 368 00:20:37,070 --> 00:20:41,642 We are checking security tags and chain of custody. 369 00:20:41,708 --> 00:20:44,378 There's tons of pieces that we're always doing. They're 370 00:20:44,444 --> 00:20:47,381 always in place so that that never goes away. 371 00:20:47,447 --> 00:20:51,084 That's that's constant. >> All right. Well we leave 372 00:20:51,151 --> 00:20:54,054 it there and we wish you luck with attending to the 373 00:20:54,121 --> 00:20:59,026 many duties that you have on top of all of this. Rock 374 00:20:59,092 --> 00:21:01,094 County Clerk Lisa Tollefson. Thank you. 375 00:21:01,161 --> 00:21:04,965 >> Thank you. >> With Wisconsin trying to 376 00:21:05,699 --> 00:21:08,202 tackle a physician shortage, new limits around graduate 377 00:21:08,268 --> 00:21:12,005 student federal loans could dissuade some would be 378 00:21:12,072 --> 00:21:15,209 doctors from going to medical school at all. New 379 00:21:15,275 --> 00:21:18,245 federal provisions passed as part of the One Big 380 00:21:18,312 --> 00:21:21,014 Beautiful Bill act, set lower borrowing limits for 381 00:21:21,081 --> 00:21:24,885 medical and law students and eliminate grad Plus 382 00:21:24,952 --> 00:21:28,989 loans for what the changes mean for graduates and 383 00:21:29,056 --> 00:21:31,358 undergraduates. Were joined by a specialist in this 384 00:21:31,425 --> 00:21:34,161 area, Nick Hillman, professor in the UW-Madison 385 00:21:34,228 --> 00:21:36,897 School of Education. And professor, thanks very much 386 00:21:36,964 --> 00:21:40,100 for being here. >> Of course. Thank you for 387 00:21:40,167 --> 00:21:42,369 the invitation. >> How big of a sea change 388 00:21:42,436 --> 00:21:45,305 is this when it comes to federal student loans? 389 00:21:45,372 --> 00:21:49,576 >> It's significant for two main reasons. One is that 390 00:21:49,643 --> 00:21:51,979 these are now amendments to the Higher Education Act. 391 00:21:52,045 --> 00:21:54,381 So these are now laws. And a lot of student loan 392 00:21:54,448 --> 00:21:56,850 policy has been done through regulations. And so 393 00:21:56,917 --> 00:21:59,653 it's a big sea change because it really 394 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,122 galvanizes these changes into legal statutes. So 395 00:22:02,189 --> 00:22:04,491 that's one thing. Which means it's also going to be 396 00:22:04,558 --> 00:22:07,528 harder to change over time. But the other thing is that 397 00:22:07,594 --> 00:22:11,064 it just really shifts the flavor of student loans, 398 00:22:11,131 --> 00:22:13,867 how students are going to be interacting with the 399 00:22:13,934 --> 00:22:16,103 loan system. And it brings some simplicities to the 400 00:22:16,170 --> 00:22:20,174 system, but it also brings some complexities. 401 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,943 into that a little bit. But have you heard of medical 402 00:22:23,010 --> 00:22:27,848 students say deciding not to attend medical school 403 00:22:27,915 --> 00:22:31,185 because of kind of the caps on borrowing? 404 00:22:31,251 --> 00:22:34,288 >> I've heard rumblings of this. I haven't heard that 405 00:22:34,354 --> 00:22:36,857 directly from prospective students, but I have heard 406 00:22:36,924 --> 00:22:39,293 concerns in different forums and through 407 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,196 different networks about what does this mean for me 408 00:22:42,262 --> 00:22:46,600 in terms of how to pay for college? If loans are less 409 00:22:46,667 --> 00:22:50,070 available to me, then I have two options. I can go 410 00:22:50,137 --> 00:22:53,173 and try to find a loan in the private market which 411 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,276 might have high interest rates. Or I can decide 412 00:22:56,343 --> 00:22:58,912 maybe I should do something else with my career. And I 413 00:22:58,979 --> 00:23:01,114 think that's the tension that either people are 414 00:23:01,181 --> 00:23:03,016 already feeling or they will soon be feeling. 415 00:23:03,083 --> 00:23:05,786 >> So the law also eliminates I understand the 416 00:23:05,853 --> 00:23:09,189 grad plus loan. What will that mean? 417 00:23:10,157 --> 00:23:13,026 >> Well, the Grad Plus loan is pretty significant. 418 00:23:13,093 --> 00:23:16,897 About 17% of all federal student loans are in that 419 00:23:16,964 --> 00:23:20,200 program. And so this is a sizable share of federal 420 00:23:20,267 --> 00:23:22,769 student loans. And if that's no longer available 421 00:23:22,836 --> 00:23:25,939 to borrowers, then again, they'll likely go out to 422 00:23:26,006 --> 00:23:29,142 the private sector, to banks or to different 423 00:23:29,209 --> 00:23:32,045 lenders and take out loans that could be as high as 424 00:23:32,112 --> 00:23:36,049 25% interest rates. These loans currently have. The 425 00:23:36,116 --> 00:23:39,887 plus loans currently have like 8 or 9% interest rates. 426 00:23:39,953 --> 00:23:41,955 >> Do you know what the justification for all of 427 00:23:42,022 --> 00:23:45,025 this was? >> To save money for the 428 00:23:46,527 --> 00:23:50,063 One Big Beautiful Bill act. I believe it's in the 429 00:23:50,130 --> 00:23:52,499 hundreds of billions of dollars. 270 billion is one 430 00:23:52,566 --> 00:23:55,569 Congressional Budget Office estimate of how much some 431 00:23:55,636 --> 00:23:58,172 of these changes have saved the federal government. And 432 00:23:58,238 --> 00:24:01,408 ultimately, that's the end game here, is to restrict 433 00:24:01,475 --> 00:24:05,579 the amount of spending that the federal government does. 434 00:24:05,646 --> 00:24:09,216 >> Back to details. There were also changes to loan 435 00:24:09,283 --> 00:24:12,019 repayments. Is that significant? 436 00:24:12,085 --> 00:24:15,956 >> That is in a couple of different ways. So this is 437 00:24:16,023 --> 00:24:18,192 what I said earlier about the simplicity and the 438 00:24:18,258 --> 00:24:19,993 complexity. There's some things that I think are 439 00:24:20,060 --> 00:24:23,130 pretty popular about the new repayment options for 440 00:24:23,197 --> 00:24:26,166 borrowers. There is now basically just two 441 00:24:26,233 --> 00:24:29,002 different options that borrowers can have starting 442 00:24:29,069 --> 00:24:32,206 in 2026. They could do a standard repayment plan 443 00:24:32,272 --> 00:24:34,141 that's pegged to how much they borrowed, and then 444 00:24:34,208 --> 00:24:37,477 they could do a repayment assistance plan that's 445 00:24:37,544 --> 00:24:40,347 pegged to how much they earn. And so in either of 446 00:24:40,414 --> 00:24:45,085 those cases, the idea is to have loan repayment be more 447 00:24:45,152 --> 00:24:49,122 sensitive to borrowers economic circumstances. 448 00:24:49,189 --> 00:24:52,025 However, there are some details that also make it 449 00:24:52,092 --> 00:24:53,927 more difficult and even potentially punitive for 450 00:24:53,994 --> 00:24:56,663 some of the lowest income borrowers. 451 00:24:56,730 --> 00:25:00,868 >> Interestingly, also, there's new accountability 452 00:25:00,934 --> 00:25:03,871 standards for undergraduates. What's that? 453 00:25:03,937 --> 00:25:08,108 >> There are. And this is something that's really 454 00:25:08,175 --> 00:25:11,345 much on my radar is essentially a bachelor's 455 00:25:11,411 --> 00:25:14,014 degree recipient, has to earn more than a high 456 00:25:14,081 --> 00:25:19,052 school graduate at some point in their future. And 457 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,356 that by itself doesn't seem very problematic. That's 458 00:25:22,422 --> 00:25:25,158 kind of the whole point of education is to boost your 459 00:25:25,225 --> 00:25:28,362 economic well-being. But there are a lot of majors 460 00:25:28,428 --> 00:25:30,898 and academic programs where the gap between a high 461 00:25:30,964 --> 00:25:33,433 school graduate and a college graduate are not 462 00:25:33,500 --> 00:25:36,003 that large. And so these accountability measures are 463 00:25:36,069 --> 00:25:40,507 going to starting in 2026, they're going to start to 464 00:25:40,574 --> 00:25:43,110 identify what academic universities across the 465 00:25:43,177 --> 00:25:46,079 country are showing that positive return above a 466 00:25:46,146 --> 00:25:49,950 high school graduate. And I worry that maybe it's not 467 00:25:50,017 --> 00:25:53,187 this year, maybe it's not next year. But at some 468 00:25:53,253 --> 00:25:55,756 point down the road, a lot of programs that produce 469 00:25:55,822 --> 00:25:58,525 graduates who go into public sector and nonprofit 470 00:25:58,592 --> 00:26:01,061 work that tend to have low wages are going to be 471 00:26:01,128 --> 00:26:04,198 either penalized by being with, you know, withheld 472 00:26:04,264 --> 00:26:06,433 federal funds. Or colleges might just say, we're not 473 00:26:06,500 --> 00:26:08,902 going to do this. It's too risky to run this program 474 00:26:08,969 --> 00:26:11,305 anymore. >> Lastly, do you think 475 00:26:11,371 --> 00:26:15,108 that student borrowers know about these changes? 476 00:26:15,175 --> 00:26:18,579 >> No, I think there's a lot of confusion. And one 477 00:26:18,645 --> 00:26:21,014 of the big struggles that I see and I'm hearing about 478 00:26:21,081 --> 00:26:23,417 is the timeline of all of these changes are supposed 479 00:26:23,483 --> 00:26:27,154 to be taking place July 1st, 2026. That's ten months 480 00:26:27,221 --> 00:26:29,823 away. And so prospective students, current students, 481 00:26:29,890 --> 00:26:31,925 and current borrowers are all wondering. There's 482 00:26:31,992 --> 00:26:34,995 already been several years of a lot of 483 00:26:35,062 --> 00:26:37,064 miscommunication, confusion and misunderstanding about 484 00:26:37,130 --> 00:26:39,800 the student loan system. And I'm worried, especially 485 00:26:39,867 --> 00:26:43,270 as the federal government of Education has laid off 486 00:26:43,337 --> 00:26:45,873 at least 50% of staff at the Department of Education. 487 00:26:45,939 --> 00:26:47,941 I'm very concerned about how this will be 488 00:26:48,008 --> 00:26:50,177 implemented and how well it will be implemented. 489 00:26:50,244 --> 00:26:53,013 >> Well, we will be watching a professor Nick 490 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,084 Hillman. Thanks very much. >> Of course. Thank you. 491 00:26:57,150 --> 00:26:59,119 >> For more on this and other issues facing 492 00:26:59,186 --> 00:27:02,489 Wisconsin, visit our website at PBS Wisconsin 493 00:27:02,556 --> 00:27:05,292 and then click on the news tab. That's our program for 494 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,961 tonight I'm Frederica Freyberg. Have a good 495 00:27:08,028 --> 00:27:09,696 weekend. [MUSIC] 496 00:27:19,039 --> 00:27:21,608 . >> Funding for "Here& Now" 497 00:27:28,182 --> 00:27:30,517 is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and 498 00:27:30,584 --> 00:27:33,053 Friends of PBS Wisconsin.