>> The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original
production. 2024 Election Coverage Wisconsin
State motto is forward. Less than a month away from the
election, Democratic incumbent a tight race for U.S. Senate
against her Republican challenger, Eric Hovde. But both
candidates can still make appeals to voters in their first
and only televised debate. I'm Frederica Freyberg tonight on
"Here& Now" ahead of next week's debate between the Wisconsin
candidates for U.S. Senate. We get a preview of their
backgrounds and platforms and a look at the blurred lines
between political rhetoric and political violence. Then we
report on one group frequently left out of the conversation
about Medicaid expansion. And finally, the top issues for
Wisconsin's largest voting block people over 50. It's "Here& Now"
for October 11th. provided by the Focus Fund for
journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.
>> Candidates for the U.S. Senate in Wisconsin square off
in a statewide debate. A week from tonight, incumbent Democrat
Tammy Baldwin and Republican Eric Hovde appear on the
televised debate Friday, October 18th at 7 p.m. You can watch
that here. And then join right after for "Here& Now" for
highlights and analysis tonight. Reporter Steven Potter tells us
about the candidates and where they stand.
>> We need to put on the red, white and blue jersey. I love my
country and come together as Americans. I believe in this
country and what our Constitution stands for and what
it's provided the people of this country. And hey, Wisconsin,
it's really important to me that Wisconsin working families have
somebody fighting for them. >> And not just somebody in
there fighting for the rich and powerful. State motto is
forward. >> The top two candidates for
U.S. Senate were both born and raised in Madison, and both say
that their primary reason for running is to help their fellow
Wisconsinites and Americans. But that's where the similarities
end between Eric Hovde and Tammy Baldwin.
>> I will be a Senator for all of Wisconsin.
>> Baldwin, the Democrat, has spent more than three decades as
an elected official. Previously rising through the ranks from
city council to the state legislature and then to the U.S.
House of Representatives. She says what she's done and learned
over those years is what qualifies her now for a third
term in the U.S. Senate. >> The experience and the
seniority matters. Oftentimes, people criticize about the years
of experience, but I can tell you that it is a complicated
process, and the relationships that I have across the party
aisle have allowed me to do really big things for Wisconsin
and for the nation. >> Hovde, the Republican, says
his decades of success as a real estate developer and a bank
owner, as well as running a foundation to help children,
gives him the insight to help lead the country in a new
direction. real world. I've actually built
apartment complexes around our state and do land development
for single family housing, so I have a wealth of experiences
that can come to apply to, you know, Washington, D.C. Democrats
currently have a razor thin majority in the U.S. Senate.
>> The winner in Wisconsin could tip the balance, given that
there's also a presidential race this year. The issues dominating
the U.S. Senate race are driven by the top of the ticket, and
those are inflation and the economy, immigration and
abortion. On inflation and the economy, Hovde says Democrats
government spending is at fault. >> We've gone through one of the
worst bouts of inflation was all self-created by the excessive
spending. We're bankrupting our country. So the first thing you
have to do is pull down that spending back to pre-COVID
levels. That's the very first thing. And then you have to put
a long glide path of trying to reduce spending and trying to
get on top of this deficit spending.
pandemic is where inflation began, but says that's not
what's driving prices up today. >> We saw prices go up because
there were supply chain disruptions, and we saw prices
go up because there was a lot of demand and little supply. Now
that that has rectified, it is corporate greed that is causing
prices to stay high, even though their cost of production has
gone down dramatically. drastically different positions
immigration and the southern border.
>> So the southern border we need to restore order there and
there are clear things that need to happen, including Moore, US
Border Patrol officers fixing the system whereby people seek
asylum and don't have a case processed for years. It should
be months, not years. >> We have to close our southern
border, whether that is with a wall with greater security, it's
going to take a multitude of different things. We have to
change the laws to allow us to remove those people, but we also
have to fix legal immigration because we do have a lot of good
people that we want to come here to work in our farms, to work in
our factories, or look at our health care system.
>> And lastly, the issue of abortion has emerged as a
singular topic that's driving many voters around the country
and in Wisconsin to the polls. >> Life is a wonderful thing,
and I agree that there should be exceptions for rape, incest, and
the health of the mother. And I agree that early on in a woman's
pregnancy, she should have a right to choose.
>> I am the leader in the fight to restore Roe v Wade. It's
through a bill that I lead called the Women's Health
Protection Act. That bill would codify Roe v Wade at the federal
level, put it into our national laws.
>> Political scientists and pollsters around the state have
noted how difficult it will be for Eric Hovde to beat Tammy
Baldwin in November. The senator has strong name recognition and
support not only in Democratic strongholds of Madison and
Milwaukee, but also in some rural parts of the state.
>> My way of approaching both the job as senator as well as
the campaigns, is to try to travel everywhere. I possibly
can in the state of Wisconsin and meet people where they are,
listen to their concerns and their aspirations, and have that
inform the work that I do and the campaign that I run.
>> Still, Eric Hovde says his experience outside of politics
makes him the better candidate, and he thinks he's got a chance
at winning. >> If you want this country to
go in a better direction and have somebody who is doing it
because he loves his country, he realizes the country is failing
economically and we have to get people who understand our
globalized, financialized understands real life
experiences for "Here& Now". >> I'm Steven Potter.
>> We've all heard the hateful political rhetoric. Much of it
these days, directed at migrants coming over the southern U.S.
Border. Is it bluster, as some apologists would say, or
dangerously tipping toward political violence? We turn to
UW-Madison political scientist Nathan Kalmoe, author of The
book Radical American Hostility and thanks for Being
here. >> So in your book, you discuss
what you call moral disengagement that is vilifying
outgroups, hyping the morality of in-groups, minimizing harms
and righteous ends that justify aggressive means. Is that what's
happening here? >> It is. Yeah. The language
that we're hearing that's targeting migrants is
dehumanizing. Dehumanization is And what's dangerous about
dehumanizing rhetoric is that it? It creates excuses for
people to harm groups that they dislike. And so we see this
historically. We see this cross-nationally that
they're targeted with dehumanizing language, are more
subject to various kinds of harms, including violence
against the community. >> In your book, you say that
hyper political polarization doesn't diagnose the problem. It
disguises it. What do you mean by that?
>> Yeah, doctor. Lily Mason and I feel like the polarization
framework that we often hear so much about is really
inappropriate when it's applied to these kinds of contexts,
because the problem here isn't that we're divided. It's what
we're divided over. And in particular, that one position in
this case is, is a kind of racist hostility towards
migrants, towards people of color more broadly. And that's
just not a one side versus the other side. It's something that
goes against some of the fundamental values of equality
and freedom in our country. And so when we focus on
polarization, it creates this false moral equivalence. Saying
that, or at least implying that both sides should find some
middle ground and really, we shouldn't be compromising on
matters that are about the equality and the humanity of
other people. >> So we've all heard of the
so-called replacement theory, whereby current minority
populations will replace the majority white status holders in
the U.S. Is this the genesis of potential violent hostility?
>> Yes. This this false and racist conspiracy theory is
quite dangerous because it creates a sense of existential
threat in people who have more of an us versus them mentality
and, and feel like diversity, instead of being a strength for
our country, is a threat to them personally. And this kind of
conspiracy theory pushes people towards more extreme actions.
And again, it forms a kind of vilification that that justifies
in their minds, that rationalizes harming these
groups, including sometimes engaging in violent threats or
violent actions, as we're seeing in Ohio. Right now.
>> What cues are there from history about how ordinary
citizens can be swept up in this?
>> Yeah, this kind of thinking, these kinds of actions are
unfortunately, historically common. This is the same kind of
thinking and rhetoric that that justified and perpetuated
United States. It's the same kind of thinking of white
supremacy that justified ethnic cleansing of Native Americans,
of excluding and discriminating against Catholic immigrants and
Asian immigrants throughout our history. And so the, the danger
is that on the one hand, it gets people to support policies of
government that are really harmful and discriminatory
against people who should be treated with humanity and
equality. And it can also mobilize people, especially when
they feel like they don't have the kinds of outcomes that they
want through the political system to turn to violence, and
that violence can be perpetuated with or without the support of
the broader government. >> In the current kind of
political electoral scape. In terms of partisans, you say that
partisans of both stripes have this kind of feeling of the
other as evil? >> Yeah. So in our our public
opinion surveys, we measured extreme hostility. We felt that
that prior previous scholarship had not fully mapped the levels
of extreme hostility. And so we asked about a number of forms of
moral disengagement, including feeling like the other side is
evil. Basically, what we found starting in 2017 was about 40%
of Democrats and Republicans had that view of their political
opponents. That number has rise, at least among Republicans in
the years since last year. Our survey showed about 60% of
Republicans were endorsing this view that Democrats are evil.
Still, about 40 to 45% of Democrats were saying the same
thing. I think that's a worrisome level of political
hostility. But I think it's important to keep in mind the
distinction between thinking of people as evil and thinking of
actions and ideas as evil, and the distinction there is that
while it's probably inappropriate to see people as
as being wholly evil, they're certainly actions, including
racist violence that that could fairly be characterized as evil
and that that should be condemned in, in pretty strong
terms. If not evil. >> All right.
>> Very interesting. Nathan Kalmoe, thank you so much.
>> Thanks so much for having me. >> For years, the debate to
expand Medicaid in Wisconsin has been shut down by Republicans
refusing to consider it, even as a new report from the Wisconsin
policy Forum says it could save the state $1.7 billion. 1
population that Medicaid serves, but often feels left out of the
conversation. Are people with disabilities, many of whom are
pitted between earning a fair wage and keeping their Medicaid
benefits. In a collaboration with Wisconsin Public Radio's
"America Amplified" project, here and Now's, Aditi Debnath is
reporting on questions voters are asking this election. This
is the third story in that series.
>> This is part of their day. This is part of their routine.
They enjoy that paycheck. At the end of every two weeks, Laura
Paepke runs a job skills building program for people with
developmental disabilities. We are there day service provider.
So if there are days that there is not work available, we'll do
some vocational workshops. >> Paepke program called T
industries, is one of 49 employers in the state with a
special certification known as 14 C. It allows her to pay
workers with disabilities based on their productivity, even if
that comes out to less than the state minimum wage of 725 an
hour. That pay arrangement, however, doesn't sit well with
advocates like Beth Swedeen, executive director of the
Wisconsin Board for people with Developmental Disabilities.
>> Our position is that people with disabilities should be
working at similar jobs to other people based on their interests,
and that they should get compensated at market rates.
>> Paying workers with disabilities less than the
minimum wage has induced controversy across the country,
causing 13 states to eliminate those kinds of private employers
altogether. >> So my brother's name is
Matthew, and he is 46 years old. He's been at T industries for at
least 20 years. >> Kristina Miller lives with
her brother Matthew, who enjoys his work at T. She says that
even if he earned minimum wage, he wouldn't be able to get
ahead. amount of money, his SSI
benefits automatically get reduced and he then is also
subject to losing his Medicaid benefits.
>> She's found the debate over 14 C employment programs for
disabled workers to be frustrating, since everything
has started with trying to eliminate the 14 C
certification. organizations putting more
restrictions managed care organizations are the decision
makers for how Medicaid dollars are spent, which includes
funding for T industries. >> In 2014, federal regulations
forced Wisconsin to increase the age requirement to participate
in 14 C programs from 18 to 25. This change was aimed at getting
younger adults to seek standard jobs before turning to sheltered
workshop employment. >> Like any complex social
problem, there's no silver bullet solution, Swedeen says.
>> Medicaid expansion could improve these programs.
>> That money could be invested back into wages, benefits and
other supports. >> This would eliminate one of
Kristina Miller's main reasons for favoring Subminimum wage
work for her brother. Fear of losing his Medicaid benefits.
>> We should be fighting for there for no caps on their
Social Security benefits, you know, for not having caps for
their Medicaid benefits so they can get these community jobs and
work and not worry about losing their benefits and having, you
know, those cut or reduced because now they're making too
much money. >> That's not true. There's a
lot of benefits counseling out there that can help people
understand how much they can earn and still retain their
health insurance and other public benefits.
mean added supports for personal care and employment, skills for
people with disabilities, and not having to choose between
fair wages and disability benefits.
learning how to, you know, manage money or learn about cell
phone etiquette or anything. >> Mary Swifka is Noah's mother.
He has Down's syndrome. >> The idea is to give him the
independence that he deserves. >> Swifka is an advocate for
Medicaid expansion, but she feels people with disabilities
are often left out of the conversation at the state level.
>> What I've heard from state legislative leaders, they think
that all Medicaid does is provide medical insurance for
people who are lower income and frail elderly, but Medicaid does
so much more than that. Medicaid dollars pay for Noah to be
independent in his community. They pay for job coaching,
Medicaid pays for people with disabilities who have
to have at home care. >> Swedeen says that regular
jobs are most valuable for people with developmental
disabilities, both in wages and experiences, but that she
recognizes the value in sheltered workshop programs and
Medicaid expansion would give people that choice.
>> There's still a place for some people who are older,
maybe, or have have worked or have gotten those vocational
supports for many years where we're not advocating the erasure
of providers, but we are advocating that it's important
for people, whenever possible, to get their supports in the
community and at a fair market wage.
>> Paepke says a statewide elimination of programs like T
would be difficult for her clients.
vocational services, we have day activities, and that's really
what the clients should be, their choice to decide not, you
know, a government entity making that choice.
Aditi Debnath for "Here& Now". >> A lot of attention is paid to
the youth vote, especially. Will they or won't they cast a
ballot? But the senior vote is much more assured. And in
Wisconsin, people over the age of 50 are the largest voting
bloc. That's according to AARP Wisconsin. Out with a recent
election poll heading into November five. Jim Flaherty of
AARP Wisconsin joins us now. And thanks for being here.
>> Oh, thanks for having me. >> So when we say that the
senior vote in Wisconsin is more assured, what does your poll say
about their enthusiasm to vote? >> Well, our poll, which came
out after the last presidential debate. So fresh in people's
minds, shows that those aged 50 and over are the most motivated
demographic of any voters in Wisconsin. More than nine out of
ten voters over age 50 Hepp were polled said that they are
extremely motivated to vote in this election, which should be a
wake up call for candidates to say, hey, you got to start
listening to what these 50 plus voters are saying.
>> So as with other polls, the candidates in the presidential
and U.S. Senate race here are neck and neck. Apart from the
horse race of it, though. What issues are especially salient
for people over 50? Well, 77% of voters aged 50 and older are
saying that candidates position on social Security are very,
very important to them. >> That's followed by obviously
Medicare. Same. Just about as high. 69% are helping people to
remain living in their homes as long as possible. We call those
family caregivers 63%. Cost of prescription drugs and their
medications is still very much top of mind. Four out of five.
So 79% of Wisconsin voters prefer a member of Congress who
wants Medicare to continue to negotiate for lower drug prices.
So, you know, these are these are pocketbook issues. You know,
can I afford to pay for my monthly medications while also
paying rent and food? A lot of people have to cut their pills
in half just to be able to get by. There's a lot of people
struggling across Wisconsin, and it's it really is time for
candidates to pay attention to that. If I may, for just a
second. Family caregivers, there's about 600,000 of them in
Wisconsin. These are folks who are raising their own families.
They have their own jobs, and they're helping out loved ones.
So that they can remain living in their own homes and
communities as long as possible. We call these the unsung heroes
of Wisconsin. They do things like helping loved ones with
meal preparation and medication management, bill paying,
transportation, bathing, sometimes driving, driving them
to church, into the grocery store. Without these family
caregivers, which we refer to as the backbone of Wisconsin's long
term care system, it would the whole system would fall apart.
Obviously, there will always be a need for assisted living and
for nursing homes, but family caregivers are the heroes of
Wisconsin. And as the state gets older, AARP believes that the
state should do more to support this group.
>> What kind of supports for allowing people to live
independently at home would get older? People's vote.
>> That's a great question, and at the state level, we AARP is
advancing an idea called a caregiver tax credit. The
governor has had it in his last two budgets, but it's been
removed later in the process by the Joint Finance Committee.
This would be a $500 income tax credit that would go to family
caregivers, and it could help offset some of the costs that
they incur while providing this care. Family caregivers spend
about $7,000 a year out of their own pocket to help their loved
ones remain in their homes. This tax credit can help them with
costs such as, you know, putting in a handicap ramp or a Schauer
bar, or any costs that they incur while providing care for a
loved one. They could write this off to a up to $500, and we
think that this is something the state legislature really needs
to look at. >> So meanwhile, heading into
Election Day, how are seniors faring in Wisconsin right now?
>> Well, like I say, some, you know, many, many are struggling
wi, AARP Wisconsin, we're the state office of a huge national
office and we go all over the state. So we go to we host
events at fairs. We are at the Iowa Car Show we've been at in
La Crosse, Madison, Kenosha. And folks are telling us, you know,
they're struggling. They really want candidates to listen to
their concerns and a lot of most of them are pocketbook issues.
They are concerned about the economy, utility rates rising
without them having a say in it. They want to be able to have
somebody who has their back. And that's what these candidates can
provide is saying, you know, we understand the struggles that
you are going through as an older wisconsinite and we've got
your back and you know, you don't have to talk to AARP. You
can talk to anyone on the street to know that Wisconsin is
getting older. More and more baby boomers are retiring every
going to have an older state and we've got to do things to
support them. Some things like making sure we have high speed
internet in every community across the state, that is no
longer a luxury. It is a requirement. Folks who aren't
close to hospital systems or clinics, they rely on
telehealth. So that's how they're that's how they can
communicate with their doctors. It it mitigates social isolation
so that these folks can talk to loved ones. Broadband expansion
is huge for Wisconsin seniors, and it's something that needs to
be addressed. >> All right. We leave it there.
Jim Flaherty, AARP Wisconsin. Thank you. Thank you for more on
this and other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our web site at
PBS Wisconsin Dot org. And then click on the news tab to see all
of our election coverage. Visit Wisconsin Vote.org. That's our
program for tonight. I'm Frederica Freyberg. Have a good
weekend.
>> Funding for "Here& Now" is provided by the Focus Fund for
Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.