The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.
>> You're watching "Here& Now". 2024 Election Coverage.
Unremitting presidential narrowing focus to win over
Wisconsin voters. No matter what county they live in. I'm
Frederica Freyberg tonight on here. And now a look at where
the presidential candidates visited and why. And how
candidates intensified rhetoric on immigration falls short of
the facts. And finally, Marquette Law School poll
director Charles Franklin has the latest voter opinions. It's
"Here& Now" for October four. >> Funding for here and Now is
provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS
Wisconsin. >> The number of visits to
Wisconsin by the presidential candidates is dizzying. Kamala
Harris was back in the state last night, and Donald Trump was
in Wisconsin multiple times in the past week, with plans for
another visit Sunday "Here& Now". Reporter Steven Potter ran
to keep up. >> Hello, Wisconsin! It's great
to be back in this beautiful state with three campaign stops
in four days. >> Wisconsin has seen a lot of
Donald Trump this week. On Saturday, the Republican
presidential candidate was in Prairie du Chien, explaining his
latest plan to address immigration.
will stop the invasion immediately. We will begin the
largest deportation operation in the history of our country.
>> Then he was back in the state on Tuesday for two stops, one in
the village of Waunakee in Dane County. The other in the city of
Milwaukee. At these events, he laid out plans to address
economic issues, including reducing taxes for American
manufacturing companies. From 21 to 15% and bringing down the
cost of energy. >> My plan will cut energy
prices in half. Trump's visits this week was
their location. Former Republican Governor Tommy
Thompson encouraged Trump to visit the Madison and Milwaukee
areas very intentionally. >> But Dane County has the third
most Republican votes in the state of Wisconsin, and all we
have to do is increase them and that's up to us, ladies and
gentlemen, to carry Dane County up to 30%, not 26%, but 30%.
>> The importance that Wisconsin voters will have on this
presidential race resonated. >> Not to be outdone by Trump's
visits to the lion's den of Democrats, Vice President Kamala
Harris took her presidential campaign to the city of Ripon on
Thursday. in Ripon, not far as the
congresswoman mentioned, from a small building where the
Republican Party was born in 1854.
would address international conflicts like the war in
Ukraine. >> Democracy and freedom are not
only at stake here at home. They are also at stake around the
world. As president of the United States, I will
strengthen, not abdicate America's global leadership.
was joined by former Wyoming Republican Congresswoman Liz
Cheney, daughter of former Republican Vice President Dick
Cheney. Both Cheney and her father have endorsed Harris.
>> I tell you, I have never voted for a Democrat, but this
year I am proudly casting my vote for Vice President Kamala
Harris. appealing to their outnumbered
supporters in the Republican and Democratic strongholds of
Wisconsin will work for either candidate for now, is an
untested strategy. Reporting from Waunakee. For "Here& Now",
I'm Steven Potter. >> It's clear immigration is the
hot button issue for Republicans, as Donald Trump has
proposed increasingly drastic plans to deport undocumented
migrants. Kamala Harris has proposed reviving a bipartisan
border bill, which would add more immigration officers and
judges. The question is which plan are voters drawn to? Here
and now? Reporter Nathan Denzin has more.
>> Please rise for our national anthem. Republicans are ramping
up attacks on Democratic immigration policies as Election
Day draws closer. >> If you think about it, only a
mentally disabled person could have allowed this to happen to
our country. Anybody would know this.
>> Over 8.5 million people have been encountered at the southern
border since 2021, about 6 million more than during the
Trump administration. Republicans say those immigrants
are taking jobs, committing crime and bringing illicit drugs
into the country. A point Trump underscored at a campaign stop
in Prairie du Chien. >> They make our criminals look
like babies. These are stone cold killers. They walk into
your kitchen, they'll cut your throat. These people are
animals. Now they'll say, oh, that's a terrible thing for him
to say. No, no, these people are animals.
Not only to people at the border, but to immigrants that
are already here. >> Representative Chris Sinicki
represents South Milwaukee in the state Assembly, and is also
the party chair for the Milwaukee County Democrats.
>> When I watch the news and I see these families, these these
mothers with their children walking hundreds of miles to get
to the border, they're doing it for a reason.
>> The lives of people in many countries, like Venezuela,
Nicaragua. Their lives have become almost intolerable.
>> Benjamin Marquez is a political scientist at
UW-Madison with a focus on immigration and Latino
populations. has always reacted very
negatively to large numbers of immigrants coming to the United
States. point now where you're walking
down the street and you see people say, oh, you know, he's
got brown skin. I don't trust this man.
color. The threat is seen as as more intense, as more
consequential for the for the fate of the nation.
>> That became particularly clear when Donald Trump falsely
claimed Haitian immigrants were eating pets in Springfield,
Ohio, during the presidential debate.
the people that live there. >> Even though these accusations
have no basis in fact, it it it flies politically.
hear directly from American citizens about the concerns that
they might have. Not whether it's true or not.
>> Hilario Deleon is the party chair for the Milwaukee County
Republicans. He says concerns over immigration come up
frequently when he is out in the community.
people are just making up or they're just, you know what? I'm
just going to roll out of bed and I'm going to just go out
there and just blast this entire group of people that are coming
in. >> Polls have shown that
Republicans are likely to be much more concerned about
immigration than Democrats. Deleon says he's heard concerns
in Milwaukee that undocumented people are receiving help before
local neighborhoods. >> These are people who live in
these neighborhoods that feel like that they're being
forgotten. They feel like that their voices aren't being heard
and they're being pushed aside. >> He says concerns include
illegal drugs like fentanyl coming in through the southern
border and undocumented people committing crime. But data has
shown that most smuggled drugs, including fentanyl, are brought
by American citizens through official ports of entry in their
vehicles versus by migrants crossing the border.
Undocumented migrants are also much less likely to commit crime
or end up in jail than natural U.S. Citizens.
>> They are not going to go out and commit serious crimes
because they are hoping to become legal citizens. If they
commit these serious crimes, they cannot become a citizen of
the United States. >> We're already dealing with
enough crime as it is with the general population. A general
citizen population here. Why would we want to add more crime
onto that problem already? >> The Trump plan, if elected,
hinges on a policy of mass deportation for the roughly 11
million undocumented migrants in America, the largest deportation
operation in the history of our country.
>> I don't think many people have given serious thought to
what it would take to deport 11 million people.
deported, Marquez says. Industries around the country
would be hurt. >> I mean, who's going to
process meat in this country? Who's who's going to work the
dairy farms? >> Studies have found that
immigrants often make up more than three quarters of labor on
dairy farms. the jobs that most people don't
want to do. They're they're working in the fields. They're
working in the kitchens, they're cleaning, you know, cleaning up
manure. >> There's all these American
citizens here that could use a job.
farm. I wouldn't I wouldn't last a couple days.
>> Odrcic Dav. Rohn Odrcic is an immigration attorney who works
on asylum cases. He says Republican rhetoric has been an
issue for some time. >> I'm seeing on one side this
intense hate. I don't know how else to put it.
>> But he also says he hasn't seen much action taken by
Democrats. electoral lens of we need to get
people excited. administration rule that would
allow noncitizen spouses and children to stay in America.
That policy was implemented in late August.
>> My question is to the Democrats is why did you enact
this in the summer of an election year? Why wasn't this
enacted within the first week of your administration?
>> He says there's a fundamental misunderstanding about how our
border and asylum process work, which leads to unproductive
political debates. truly realize that, that how
difficult it is to be granted asylum in order to be granted
asylum, you have to prove to a judge your situation fits a very
narrow definition of why you country.
>> In the interim, federal law allows asylum seekers a
temporary status to remain in the U.S. But even scheduling an
appointment with a judge takes years.
>> Earlier this week, I was at the Chicago Asylum office for an
interview. That application was filed in April of 2016, so eight
and a half years in January. >> A bipartisan border bill
proposed adding 4300 asylum officers and 100 immigration
judges to ease waits. But Trump came out in opposition to the
bill and it was never passed into law.
for that bill. It was so bad. >> The problem is that you're
looking at the numbers versus the resources that aren't
keeping up with the demand. >> On her campaign website, Vice
President Kamala Harris says she would bring back this bill if
elected. She also recently signaled support for keeping
even tougher asylum laws enacted by President Biden in June.
Since then, encounters have decreased by about 55%.
>> Democrats cannot afford to be branded as advocating an open
border. Just come on in and you're and you're and you're
home free. >> Only time will tell which
plan voters prefer and if the winner will actually improve
are there are many. >> As the presidential campaign
speeds toward the finish line, political rhetoric coming from
Donald Trump around immigration and immigrants is more and more
incendiary. What does that make them feel like? The president of
the company where Trump appeared Tuesday and Waunakee responded
to that question on behalf of his largely Hispanic workforce.
>> They're legal workers in this country. Some are citizens, some
are working on citizenship. But but legal. They don't like being
painted in that same brush for a look at the state as a whole and
its Hispanic workforce, we turn to Jorge Franco, CEO of the
Hispanic Chamber of Commerce of Wisconsin, and thanks very much
for being here. >> A pleasure to be with you,
Frederica. Thank you. >> So as to that question, what
is it like for Hispanic people in Wisconsin to hear Donald
Trump's call for mass deportation and how he refers to
immigrants? >> Well, you know, it's an
election season. And I think we've all grown accustomed,
especially when you've been around the block the way I have.
You're all accustomed to the rhetoric that that comes out at
these times. You know, some some take it over the top and, you
know, when we think back on and the first time he entered the
race, he of course he entered with a bang. If you remember the
escalator, visit and I think many were, were, you know,
thoughtful about what was heard at the time. And, and border
security is very important to all of us. You know, we as
Hispanics are our concerns are very similar to many others.
Economy. You know, who doesn't want a, you know, a good
economy. That's a big focus for us. But but we it's interesting.
We've grown accustomed to what we hear and it comes from both
sides really. But and in our case with the chamber, I should
say we're a friend to everybody. We don't pick one or the other
or but we do. We do have our opinions and we and we're smart
about what's going on in the economy. And we know how to
navigate these things. >> What is your message to
Wisconsin about the importance of our immigrant workforce,
especially in dairy and agriculture?
economy. If immigrants were to be gone tomorrow, just in no
sectors. And we're not saying that's the only sectors they
work in. They're in manufacturing. They're in many
aspects of the many, many sectors of the state economy.
But just in those two alone, if they were gone tomorrow, our
economy would tank. We're so dependent on the workforce. And
just look at the numbers in the last, you know, over the past
year, I think we've been as high as 10 million vacancies in in
America. And of course, you know, we're not the immigration
cops at the Hispanic chamber. And that's not of concern to us.
We help anyone and everybody who walks through the door, even
non-Hispanics. But the point is, if the Hispanic immigrants
working in those two industries alone were to be gone tomorrow,
our economy in Wisconsin would tank. We're so dependent on
dairy and agriculture. >> Are these workers in
Wisconsin undocumented? undocumented. We refer to them
as unauthorized. But the answer to that question is yes, there
are there are many. And that's not just in the United States.
And then there are immigrants who are authorized. They're
refugees. And so it's a complexity of issues that emerge
and come up. But the big issue is whether or not, you know,
someone's taking somebody's job away and that, you know, that
those kinds of things under most effective public policy can be
addressed because we need the human capital. It's just
statistically what's going on in in the US economy and certainly
in the Wisconsin economy. And our GDP would take a big hit
absent that human capital today that some call undocumented,
what we call unauthorized immigrants. The big issue is
workforce. It's where are we going to find workers. And of
course, the Hispanic population on average is youthful, 9 to 10
years younger on average than the white population in America.
And many people don't realize that the unauthorized
population, immigrant population pays taxes.
ultimate entrepreneurial act to leave your country in search of
work. How so? >> Absolutely. If you think
about it for a moment, you know, we the Hispanic culture is
highly entrepreneurial and we have employers coming to us
every day asking us to send them Hispanic workers because of the
Hispanic work ethic. And we remind them, wait a minute, you
understand we can't and you can't decide on whether you hire
somebody or not based on race, religion, creed, color, whatever
it may be. And you have to be careful with that too. However,
if you are interested in us helping solve your workforce
development issues, we can and do do that. But it has to be
done properly and in a regulatory compliant manner.
to the issue, you know, we're we're we're talking about it.
There are just the good news is that there are solutions that
could be implemented today. And regardless of who wins the
election, we hope to work with those parties to get something
put in place that works for everybody.
much. much. Bye bye.
>> Leading up to November, a number of bipartisan groups have
been holding events across the state to preemptively quell
concerns about potential voter fraud. One bipartisan group of
Wisconsin's former Republican and Democratic members of
Congress held one such event in La Crosse this week to discuss
and answer questions about election integrity and security.
>> I will tell you, the last place on earth any illegal
immigrant wants to be is at a government operation where they
might be captured and deported. They are not voting now. You
talked about non-citizens, but there are legal immigrants that
are non-citizens. And that's where you typically have the
disconnect where they have to track it. But the idea that
someone who came through the border six months ago is going
in to vote is to me. I look at it and think, that is like the
most absurd idea and one out of just not understanding how these
undocumented workers that are moving about this underground
economy in the US operate. They do not want to be caught.
They're not coming in to vote. They just aren't.
>> In the latest Marquette Law School poll, Democratic
candidates Harris and Baldwin are up on their Republican
challengers. We get the numbers now from poll director Charles
Franklin. And Charles, thanks very much for being here. Good
to be here. So as we headlined Kamala Harris polls, 52% to 48%
for Donald Trump. Now these are the same numbers as last month.
So nothing's moving the needle. >> Not much in the near term.
Back in July, after Harris first got in the race, it was Trump by
one point with registered voters, Harris by one point with
likely voters. That has moved to a four point Harris lead, which
is then repeated in this latest poll. You know, remember we were
off by four points in 2020. So if you subtract that four
points, we could be dead tied. If we're has have as big an
error as we did in 2020. Of course, I hope that our poll is
more accurate this time. >> So in the US Senate race,
incumbent Tammy Baldwin is at 53% to Eric Hovde, 46%. How does
this compare to your last poll? >> This is an increase. It was a
four point Baldwin lead in early September. 7% now over the whole
course of the campaign, we've seen earlier polls as close as
four or as wide as seven. And we did have one result with likely
voters. That was 50 over 50, though that was early in the
campaign, and we haven't seen a similarly close race there.
>> Do you have any idea what might explain her pulling ahead
like this? >> Well, she's been strong all
year as Democrats quite unified behind her, but also doing well
with independents. In the last two polls, though, she's
increased her advantage with independents. I think that's
helping explain how we've gotten to a four or now a seven point
lead. Hovde on the other hand, is unifying Republicans so
there's less of a crossover vote than there was way back in the
early spring. interesting question about
to each other about politics. And 46% said they had. Now, you
note that this is higher than in the past two election cycles.
Does this surprise you, though, given the rhetoric out there?
>> Not given the rhetoric you would expect. We're more
polarized by a whole lot of measures, but we've asked this.
We originally asked it just before the gubernatorial recall
in 2012 and then in 16 and in 20. And those three times we've
asked have been 34, 35 and 36% stop talking. So a ten point
increase this year, I think, does tell us a little bit about
a more polarized, more personalized politics.
>> So on enthusiasm to vote, which is a super important
measure. The overall enthusiasm to vote is very high at 67%,
with Democrats even more so at 71%. And it has jumped the most
for independents, 50% of whom in this latest poll say they are
enthusiastic to vote. >> Yeah, independents had been
lagging in the 30 seconds all year. This is the first time
we've seen a big bump up with them. I think that means, in
part, that they're beginning to tune into the race. Unlike
Partizans, they're not sitting rooting for a candidate since
January and are now getting more engaged. But early in the year,
Republican enthusiasm was well higher than Democratic
enthusiasm. With the change of candidates, Democrats moved up
almost catching Republicans in July, and moved ahead in early
September. Now, Republicans have moved up as well and closed that
gap. A very small Democratic advantage. But now both parties
look as mobilized as they were in 2020. That suggests we'll see
a similarly high turnout in November, as we did in 2020.
>> Talking about the independent vote, when you consider that 61%
of independents say they support Harris, compared to 39% for
Trump, is that an important measure?
measure. There are only about 12% of voters that call
themselves independents that aren't closer to either party.
Independents had favored Trump through the spring, and still
favored Trump by a little bit in July, when Harris was first in
the race. But we now have two polls in a row with independent
support, around 60% for Harris. You always worry with
independents because they can change their mind. They're a
fickle group that because they don't have party loyalties, they
may shift and now could shift again. But seeing two polls in a
row with that significant uptick and strong Harris support, I
think is important and it helps account for why Harris is up by
four points instead of two points or one point.
>> So on the issues Trump wins again on immigration, the
Israel-hamas war and the economy, while Harris wins on
fair and accurate elections, Medicare and Social Security,
abortion policy and health care. And yet the economy, of course,
remains the singular most important issue to voters. But
is the economy as ruinous as the GOP is telling us it is right
now? >> The economy is pretty good.
We've we've seen good job reports and the dockworkers
strike just settled. So there are positive economic
indicators. But the negativity about the economy is still
pretty high. We're getting I think it's about 30% in this
poll, say the economy is doing poorly. Only 38% say it's
excellent or good. So that's a pretty poor picture of the
economy. The fact that people still say the economy is the
most important issue, and that Trump has about an eight point
advantage on that issue, is why this race is still close and why
Donald Trump could still win this race on the most important
issue, even though Harris has advantages on abortion and on
personal traits, she's seen as having the right temperament to
be president. And Trump is not. So it's we've got conflicting
forces here. The economy being a real strength for Trump.
>> Lastly, with less than a minute left, you did another
question about property taxes versus school spending. 56% of
respondents say reducing property taxes is more important
than increasing funding for schools, which sits at 44%. Big
shift. longer period of time. In 2018,
those numbers were almost exactly the opposite. High 50s
favoring schools, low 40s or even 39% saying property taxes
was more important. And those numbers have moved steadily over
these last six years until they've completely reversed. So
this and I would say that was after support for schools built
from 2012 through 2018. So we've really ridden this cycle up with
support for schools. We've now written it down and concern for
property taxes now higher levels than what we saw in 2012, 2013.
>> All right. We'll leave it there. Charles Franklin, thanks
very much. Thank you for more on this and other issues facing
Wisconsin, visit our web site at PBS Wisconsin. Org and then
click on the news tab to see all of our election coverage. Visit
Wisconsin Vote.org. That's our program for tonight I'm
Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.
>> Funding for "Here& Now" is provided by the Focus Fund for
Journalism and Friends of PBS
Wisconsin.