>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL
PRODUCTION. >> LOOK.
WE NEED TO MOVE ON. THE ELECTION IN 2024 SHOULD NOT
BE ABOUT WHAT OCCURRED IN 2020. >> REPUBLICANS DELIVER MIXED
MESSAGES AS CALLS CONTINUE FOR A TOP ELECTION OFFICIAL TO BE
IMPEACHED. AND OFF-YEAR ELECTIONS.
PLUS, A G.O.P. DEBATE FORESHADOW MORE OF WHAT'S TO COME IN 2024.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG. TONIGHT ON "HERE & NOW," THE
ELECTIONS COMMISSION CHAIR WITH HIS VIEWS ON THE POLITICAL
ATTACKS AGAINST THE COMMISSION'S ADMINISTRATOR. A REPORT ON
WISCONSIN FAMILIES WITH CLOSE CONNECTIONS TO THE
WAR IN GAZA. RESULTS FROM THE LATEST
MARQUETTE LAW SCHOOL POLL. AND THE NEXT FROM WISCONSIN IN
BLACK AND WHITE: HEALTH DIVIDES. IT'S "HERE & NOW" FOR NOVEMBER
10th. >> FUNDING FOR "HERE & NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS
FUND FORJOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PB SWISCONSIN.
? >> ASSEMBLY SPEAKER ROBIN VOS
SAYS WE SHOULD STOP OBSESSING
ABOUT MEAGAN WOLFE. THAT'S EVEN AS FELLOW
REPUBLICANS IN THE LEGISLATURE CONTINUE TO RAMP UP CALLS TO
IMPEACH HER. THE ELECTIONS COMMISSION CHAIR,
REPUBLICAN DON MILLIS, IS CALLING ALLEGATIONS AGAINST HER
A PACK OF LIES AND HE'S ANGRY THAT THEY ARE MAKING MONEY OFF
THOSE LIES. DON MILLIS JOINS US.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. >> MY PLEASURE.
>> LET'S HEAR A FEW SECONDS OF THAT AD.
IT'S FROM AN ELECTION DENIER WHO RAN AGAINST ROBIN VOS.
>> I AM VERY WORRIED ABOUT THE FAIRNESS AND SECURITY OF OUR
ELECTIONS IF MEAGAN WOLFE REMAINS IN CHARGE OF THEM.
>> SO THE AD HIGHLIGHTS WHAT IT SAYS WAS HER APPROVAL OF ILLEGAL
DROP BOXES, BALLOT HARVESTING AND SO CALLED ZUCKER-BUCKS.
MR. MILLIS, WHY DO YOU CALL THESE ALLEGATIONS OUT AS
DEMONSTRABLY FALSE? >> WELL, WITH RESPECT TO THE
FIRST TWO ITEMS, IT WASN'T HER CHOICE.
THE ELECTION COMMISSION, UNANIMOUS BIPARTISAN VOTE,
APPROVED THE UNSTAFFED DROP BOXES AND ALSO TO THE EXTENT
THAT BALLOT HARVESTING WAS PERMITTED, IT WAS PART OF THE
SAME THING. ADMINISTRATOR WOLFE WAS JUST
CARRYING OUT THOSE PLANS. WITH RESPECT TO THE SO CALLED
ZUCKER-BUCKS, THERE'S NOTHING THAT STATE GOVERNMENT COULD DO
BECAUSE THE COURTS HAVE SINCE DETERMINED THAT THE LOCAL
GOVERNMENTS ACCEPTING THOSE FUNDS WERE PERFECTLY LEGAL.
THERE WAS A LAWSUIT. THE COMMISSION PART OF MY --
BEING ON THE COMMISSION VOTED TO DISMISS THAT COMPLAINT AND THAT
WAS CONFIRMED. WE KNOW THAT BECAUSE THE
LEGISLATURE IS NOW TRYING TO AMEND THE CONSTITUTION TO
PROHIBIT THE USE OF SUCH PRIVATE FUNDS, AND I THINK THERE'S SOME
MERIT TO THAT, BUT BLAMING ADMINISTRATOR WOLFE MAKES NO
SENSE BECAUSE IT WASN'T HER CALL.
>> SO WHEN YOU FIRST SAW THIS AD, WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION?
>> WELL, I WAS SURPRISED. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT AID
JOURNALIST, I DO HAVE A JOURNALISM DEGREE, BUT WHEN I
WAS IN JOURNALISM SCHOOL A LONG TIME AGO, NEWSPAPERS LIKE
MILWAUKEE JOURNAL, IT WAS CALLED THE JOURNAL THEN, WERE PARAGONS
OF VIRTUE. THEY NEVER WOULD HAVE ACCEPTED
ADS LIKE THIS. WE'VE SINCE SEEN THAT THE MEDIA,
WHEN WE HAVE ELECTION DENIERS AND WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS
MADE STATEMENTS THAT THE MEDIA BELIEVES ARE LIES, THEY WILL RUN
CHIRONS UNDER HIS SPEECHES, AND SO IT SEEMS TO BE VERY
HYPOCRITICAL THAT THE MEDIA WOULD ACCEPT MONEY AND IT'S
CERTAINLY IN THE CASE OF JOURNAL SENTINEL, RUN ADS THAT THEY KNOW
ARE FALSE BECAUSE A MONTH BEFORE THEY RAN THE AD, THEY HAD AN
ARTICLE THAT POINTED OUT THAT THE ALLEGATIONS CONTAINED IN
THAT AD WERE FALSE. >> HMM.
SO MEANWHILE, THE SAGA OF TRYING TO IMPEACH MEAGAN WOLFE ROLLS ON
AND RAMPS UP. DO YOU WANT HER TO LEAVE HER
POST?>> I THINK AT THIS POI NT, YOU
KNOW, WE'RE GETTING ON THE EVE OF A VERY IMPORTANT AND VERY
CONTESTED ELECTION. I THINK THAT SPEAKER VOS HAS IT
RIGHT THAT THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO BE DEBATING THESE ISSUES.
WE HAVE SO MANY MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES.
THE THING THAT'S FRUSTRATING TO ME IS TUESDAY, THE ASSEMBLY HAD
A VERY GOOD DAY. THEY VOTED ON A NUMBER OF THINGS
THAT WOULD APPEAL TO THE BASE, THAT WOULD APPEAL TO THE
INDEPENDENTS, AND THE HEADLINES WERE ABOUT IMPEACHING MEAGAN
WOLFE, WHEN THERE'S NO CLANS THAT THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN
BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THERE ARE ENOUGH VOTES IN EITHER HOUSE TO
ACCOMPLISH THAT. AND SO IT SEEMS TO ME IT'S A
FOOL'S ERRAND TO GO DOWN THAT ROAD BECAUSE THERE ARE SIMPLY
NOT THE VOTES TO DO THAT, IN MY OPINION. >> WOULD YOU REPLA
CE HER IF IT WERE NOT A FOOL'S ERRAND?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT -- POLITICS,
I KNOW THAT THERE ARE FOUR VOTES ON THE COMMISSION TO KEEP HER,
AND SO THE ONLY THING THAT THE COMMISSION COULD DO RIGHT NOW,
BASED ON THE COURT DECISIONS, IS THAT THE COMMISSION COULD VOTE
TO REMOVE HER. THERE ARE NOT FOUR VOTES TO DO
THAT. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO DO
THAT. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO CHANGE
AN ADMINISTRATOR AND GO SEARCHING FOR A NEW
ADMINISTRATOR WHEN, IN 362 DAYS OR 361 DAYS, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE
AN ELECTION THAT'S GOING TO BE PRETTY HOTLY CONTESTED IN
WISCONSIN.>> IF THAT VOTE WE RE TO COME TO
PASS ON THE COMMISSION, WOULD YOU VOTE?
WOULD YOU VOTE TO REPLACE HER? >> I WOULDN'T VOTE TO REPLACE
HER RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I DON'T THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO DO SO.
>> BUT YOU MIGHT IN THE FUTURE? >> WELL, YOU KNOW, I'VE HAD
DISCUSSIONS WITH ADMINISTRATOR WOLFE ABOUT A VARIETY OF THINGS.
I THINK SHE'S GENERALLY DOING A GOOD JOB.
I THINK THE THINGS THAT SHE HAS DONE ARE THE THINGS THAT HAVE
BEEN SAID ABOUT HER ARE TOTALLY FALSE, BUT I'M NOT GOING TO
PREDICT HOW THINGS GO IN THE FUTURE.A LOT OF THIS HAS TO
DO WITH PERSONAL DECISIONS THAT SHE HAS
TO MAKE AND THE FUTURE OF THE STAFF AND HOW DO WE BUILD IN A
SUCCESSOR.I THINK IT IS IMPO RTANT THAT IN
ANY AGENCY, LIKE THIS THAT YOU HAVE A PLAN FOR SUCCESSION.
I'VE HAD SOME PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS WITH HER ABOUT
THAT. I'M NOT GOING TO DIVULGE THOSE,
BUT RIGHT NOW, IT MAKES NO SENSE TO TALK ABOUT REPLACING HER.
>> VERY BRIEFLY, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT DONALD TRUMP REPORTEDLY
PRESSURING ROBIN VOS TO IMPEACH MEAGAN WOLFE?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE MISLED.
IF YOU REALLY THINK THAT MEAGAN WOLFE WAS THE REASON WHY DONALD
TRUMP LOST WISCONSIN, THEN THAT'S JUST -- THAT'S JUST --
IT'S JUST FALSE. THAT'S NOT THE REASON WHY HE
DIDN'T PREVAIL HERE. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HER.
AND SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT. I THINK MY GUESS IS THAT HE'S
TRYING TO APPEAL TO A BASE SO THAT HE CAN CONTINUE TO BE IN
THE NEWS. >> DON MILLIS, THANKS VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU. >> JUST OVER A MONTH SINCE THE
HAMAS TERRORIST ATTACK ON ISRAEL, GOVERNOR TONY EVERS
CALLED ON CONGRESS TO INCREASE FUNDS FOR SECURING PLACES OF
WORSHIP AS THREATS SURGE AGAINST JEWISH AND MUSLIM COMMUNITIES.
AS "HERE & NOW" REPORTER ADITI DEBNATH TELLS US, THE WAR IS
PERSONAL AND PAINFUL FOR THE WISCONSIN FAMILIES YOU'RE ABOUT
TO HEAR FROM. >> EVERY DAY THEY'RE RUNNING
INTO THE BOMB SHELTER. >> THEY SEND US A TEXT MESSAGE,
"WE'RE STILL ALIVE," AND THAT'S PRETTY MUCH -- THAT'S ALL WE CAN
ASK FOR AT THIS POINT. >> THESE WISCONSIN FAMILIES HAVE
CLOSE CONNECTIONS TO THE WAR. LIKE MIRYAM ROSENZWEIG, WHOSE
PREGNANT SISTER AND NIECE LIVE IN ISRAEL.
I ASKED HER, HOW IS THE 2-YEAR-OLD DOING IS THIS SHE
HEARS A SIREN. SHE KNOWS THEY'RE GOING INTO THE
BOMB SHELTER. >> YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THE NEWS
EVERY DAY. HASHIM ZAIBAK FOLLOWS THE NEWS
EVERY DAY. AS A NATIVE OF GAZA, HOME TO
HAMAS, HE HAS TO MAKE SURE HIS SISTER AND OTHER FAMILY ARE
THERE ALIVE. ZAIBAK OWNS HYATT PHARMACY IN
MILWAUKEE AND FEARING ANTIPALESTINIAN BACKLASH, HIRED
A SECURITY GUARD TO PATROL HIS BUSINESS.
FOR ROSEN DWEEG, WHERE THE OF THE MILWAUKEE JEWISH FEDERATION,
THE VITRIOL CUTS BOTH WAYS. >> THE HATE THAT HAS BEEN SPEWED
IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS TOWARDS JEWISH COMMUNITY, BOTH AS A
COMMUNITY, INDIVIDUAL, IN OUR SCHOOLS, ON OUR CAMPUSES HAS
BEEN HORRIFIC TO WATCH. AND THE SILENCE OF THE
CONDEMNATION OF IT IS DEAFENING. >> HAMAS RAINED DOWN HORROR ON
ISRAELIS BUT STILL, ROSENZWEIG SAYS SUPPORT FOR PALESTINIAN
CIVILIANS IS CLEAR AMONG MEMBERS OF HER ORGANIZATION.
>> OVERWHELMINGLY, THEY BELIEVE IN THE RIGHT OF PALESTINIAN
SELF-DETERMINATION.WHAT PEO PLE ARE MISUNDERSTANDING
IS THAT THE FIGHT ISN'T WITH THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.
THIS WAR IS ABOUT NEUTRALIZING HAMAS.
>> BUT IT'S ABOUT MORE THAN THAT, SAYS UW-MADISON PROFESSOR
SAMER. >> IT'S AGAINST THE PALESTINIANS
THAT IS GENOCIDAL. >> HE IS A GEOPOLITICAL EXPERT
OF THE REGION AND A NATIVE OF PALESTINE.
>> AND IT'S ABOUT ETHNIC CLEANSING AND TEASE ABOUT
STEALING LAND. >> HE SAYS MASS MEDIA
PERPETUATES THE IDEA THAT THE CONFLICT IS ABOUT RELIGION
INSTEAD OF ABOUT THE LAND, AND THAT IDEA HAS DANGEROUS ECHOES
IN HISTORY. >> THE MEDIA SOMETIMES PORTRAYS
PALESTINIANS AS THE BAD GUYS. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS TO
THE JEWS BEFORE WORLD WAR II. >> ZAIBAK IS NOT THE FIRST ONE
TO LIKEN THE SITUATION TO WORLD WAR II.
AS SHE VISITS THE HISTORY MUSEUM, EID UP-T IDIE PUMP SAYSE
CONFLICT IS NOT ABOUT RELIGIOUS DIFFERENCES.AS A HOLOCAUST S
URVIVOR, SHE REMEMBERS HER FAMILY HIDING IN
UZBEKISTAN.>> IT WAS A MUSL IM COMMUNITY AND
THEY WERE PROTECTIVE OF THE JEWS.I HAD A MUSLIM MIDWIFE
DELIVERED ME.
WHEN I WAS SICK, A MUSLIM MIDWIFE TOOK CARE OF ME, AND
THEY PROTECTED MY PARENTS. >> STILL, THE HAMAS CHARTER,
WRITTEN IN 1988, CALLS FOR THE END OF ISRAEL AND ITS JEWISH
POPULATION.PUMP COMPARES TH E TERROR OF
HAMAS TO NAZI GERMANY. >> JUST LIKE WHAT HAPPENED IN
THE HOLOCAUST. >> Reporter: HAMAS IS
DESIGNATED BY THE U.S. AS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION AND
GOVERNS OVER THE GAZA STRIP. INNOCENT PALESTINIANS ARE CAUGHT
IN THE CROSSFIRE. >> IS HAMAS PALESTINE?
NO. BUT IS THE P.N.A., THE PALESTINE
AUTHORITY PALESTINE? NO.>> IT'S A COMPLEX HISTOR
Y INFLAMED BY CURRENT BLOODSHED,
AND ACCORDING TO MIRYAM ROSENZWEIG, SOCIAL MEDIA CAN
DISTORT THE TRUTH. >> PEOPLE SHOULD STOP GETTING
THEIR INFORMATION FROM SOCIAL MEDIA.IF YOU COULD FIT IN A
TEXT OR POST, IT'S NOT A THOUGHTFUL
ARGUMENT.>> BUT ZAIBAK SAYS HE THINKS
SOCIAL MEDIA CAN HELP KEEP PEOPLE UP TO DATE AND IT'S OFTEN
YOUNGER PEOPLE DISSEMINATING IT. >> I FEEL IT'S A DIFFERENT
GENERATION.I FEEL THAT THE GEN Zers HERE
IN THE UNITED STATES ARE VERY EMPATHETIC WITH THE PALESTINIAN
CAUSE. >> EDUCATION IS THE KEY.
LEARN ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON. LEARN ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES
BETWEEN PEOPLE AND ACCEPT PEOPLE'S DIFFERENCES.
>> THROUGH IT ALL, HASHIM ZAIBAK AWAITS A DAILY TEXT MESSAGE FROM
HIS FAMILY TELLING HIM THEY'RE ALIVE AND MIRYAM
'S NIECE RUNS TO THE BOMB SHELTER.
I'M ADITI DEBNATH FOR "HERE &
NOW.">> IT'S A YEAR OUT FRO M THE 2024
GENERAL ELECTIONS AND WISCONSIN REPUBLICAN VOTERS ARE SHOWING
SIGNS OF INCREASED SUPPORT FOR DONALD TRUMP, BUT ALSO FOR NIKKI
HALEY. THE LATEST MARQUETTE UNIVERSITY
POLL TOOK THE POLITICAL PULSE OF THE STATE ELECTORATE.
CHARLES FRANKLIN IS HERE TO TELL US ABOUT THE NUMBERS.
WITH THIS WEEK'S REPUBLICAN DEBATE AND DONALD TRUMP'S HIGHLY
VISIBLE COURT CASES, VOTERS HAVE THEIR EYES ON THE PRESIDENTIAL
RACE.IN YOUR POLL THAT WAS IN THE
FIELD LAST WEEK, IT SHOWS THAT BIDEN TOPS TRUMP BY TWO POINTS
RIGHT NOW IN WISCONSIN, BUT IF TRUMP WERE OUT OF THE MIX,
INTERESTINGLY, IT SHOWS THAT RON DeSANTIS TOPS JOE BIDEN BY 2
POINTS AND THEN EVEN MORE INTERESTINGLY, IT SHOWS THAT
NIKKI HALEY TOPS BIDEN BY NINE POINTS.SO WHAT IS THAT ABOU
T IN A STATE AND IN ALL THE STATES WHERE
TRUMP HAS THIS HUGE LEAD AGAINST BOTH THOSE PEOPLE?
>> WELL, IN THE PRIMARY, TRUMP'S LEAD IS HUGE, IT'S 20 POINTS IN
OUR POLL THIS TIME FOR REPUBLICANS, BUT THE TWO-POINT
MARGINS FOR TRUMP OR FOR DESCENDANTS, MARGIN OF ERROR IS
FOUR POINTS, SO THOSE ARE TOSS-UPS, BUT YOU CAN SAY
DESCENDANTS IS DOING A LITTLE BETTER THAN TRUMP DOES WHEN
PAIRED AGAINST BIDEN. WHAT'S INTERESTING, AS YOU SAY,
IS THE NIKKI HALEY PERFORMANCE, PLUS NINE LEAD FOR HER, THAT'S
PHENOMENAL AND NOT REALISTIC IF WE WERE IN A GENERAL ELECTION.
BUT WHAT WE SEE IN THE DATA IS, FIRST, ABOUT A THIRD OF THE
PUBLIC SAY THEY DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT NIKKI HALEY.
AND WHEN SHE'S PAIRED AGAINST BIDEN, I THINK THAT LACK OF
KNOWLEDGE AND THE FACT THAT SHE'S IN THE CLOSELY IDENTIFIED
WITH THE TRUMP WING OF THE PARTY, ALLOWS INDEPENDENTS AND
SOME DEMOCRATS WHO HAVE RESERVATIONS ABOUT BIDEN FOR
VARIOUS REASONS, THE ECONOMY, HIS AGE AND SO ON, IT ALLOWS
THEM TO SAY THAT THEY WOULD VOTE FOR THAT REPUBLICAN WHO IS NOT
FROM THE TRUMP-Y WING OF THE PARTY.
CONVERSELY, PEOPLE'S OPINIONS OF TRUMP AND BIDEN ARE SO SET IN
STONE THAT WE "DUP" WITH THIS NEAR TIE THERE AND, INDEED,
INDEPENDENTS SPLIT EVENLY BETWEEN TRUMP AND BIDEN, BUT
INDEPENDENTS GIVE 58% OF THEIR VOTE TO NIKKI HALEY.
>> SO COULD YOU HAVE CONCEIVED A RACE WHERE THE FRONTRUNNER, THAT
BEING DONALD TRUMP, JUST DOESN'T DO DEBATES, NOT TO MENTION HE'S
UNDER INDICTMENT AND IS STILL GAINING IN THE POLLS?
>> YEAH. HIS HOLD ON THE PARTY IS VERY
STRONG TO BEGIN WITH, BUT NOT AS STRONG AS MAYBE MYTH WOULD HAVE
IT. WE FIND ABOUT 70% OF REPUBLICANS
WITH A FAVORABLE VIEW OF TRUMP AND ABOUT 30 WITH AN UNFAVORABLE
VIEW OF HIM AMONG REPUBLICANS. THAT 30% ALMOST NONE OF THEM
SUPPORT TRUMP IN THE PRIMARY, BUT THEY HAVEN'T COALESCED
AROUND ANYBODY ELSE. AT THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR,
DESCENDANTS WAS ACTUALLY DRAWING ABOUT 30% OF THE VOTE AMONG
PEOPLE WHO LIKED TRUMP, AMONG REPUBLICANS WHO LIKED TRUMP, BUT
THAT HAS PLUMMETED SINCE THEN. SO THE PRO-TRUMP WING OF THE
PARTY REALLY HAS COALESCED AROUND HIM AND ABANDONED
THINKING ABOUT DESCENDANTS, BUT NONE OF THE OTHER CANDIDATES
HAVE REALLY COALESCED THAT 30% OR SO THAT DON'T LIKE TRUMP, AND
SO IT'S SCATTERED BETWEEN DESCENDANTS AND HAYLEY AND VERY
SMALL PERCENTAGES FOR EVERYBODY ELSE.
>> LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT YOUR SURVEY FOUND IN THE STATE
OF WISCONSIN. POLL SHOWS THAT TONY EVERS IS
RIGHT SIDE UP WITH APPROVAL RATINGS WHILE THE LEGISLATURE IS
WAY UPSIDE DOWN, AND THE STATE SUPREME COURT IS ALSO ENJOYING
SOME FIRM APPROVAL. WHAT DO THESE NUMBERS TELL YOU?
>> TONY EVERS FELL JUST BELOW 50% APPROVAL BEFORE HE WAS
RE-ELECTED LAST NOVEMBER. HE BUMPED UP IN JUNE AND HAS
COME DOWN ABOUT THREE POINTS NOW, BUT HE'S A NET POSITIVE.
THE LEGISLATURE, ON THE OTHER HAND, WHEN WE LAST ASKED, WHICH
WAS BACK IN 2022, HAD BEEN PRETTY CLOSE TO EVEN, SO THEY
SEEMED TO HAVE SLIPPED CONSIDERABLY IN THE MEANTIME AND
WE HAVEN'T ASKED ABOUT THE STATE SUPREME COURT BEFORE, THIS IS
OUR FIRST TIME, THEY'RE AT 51% APPROVAL, WHICH IS FINE, BUT,
YOU KNOW, THE COURT WILL BE IN THE NEWS IN COMING MONTHS AND
WE'LL SEE HOW THE PUBLIC REACTS TO THAT AS THE COURT BECOMES
MORE VISIBLE IN THE NEWS. >> I FOUND YOUR SURVEY RESULTS
ON THE REDISTRICTING INTERESTING.YOUR POLL SHOWS
THAT 51% WANT TO KEEP THE CURRENT MAPS UNTIL
2031. NOW, THOSE MAPS ARE THE OBJECT
OF SO MUCH VOCAL DISFAVOR. WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THESE
RESULTS? >> TWO THINGS.
FIRST, WE DID NOT MENTION GERRYMANDERING OR PARTISAN
DISTRICTING IN THE QUESTION. THAT WAS DELIBERATE.
WE WANT TO KNOW, IF YOU JUST DESCRIBE THE SITUATION BEFORE
THE COURT AND WHAT THE OPTION OF PUTTING OFF REDISTRICTING UNTIL
2031 IS, WHAT DO PEOPLE RESPOND TO THAT?
HOW DO THEY KNOW THAT? WHEN WE'VE PREVIOUSLY ASKED
ABOUT NON-PARTISAN SAN REDISTRICTING A COUPLE OF YEARS
AGO, IT WAS VERY POPULAR, AND SO THE POINT HERE IS REPUBLICANS,
ABOUT 75%, SAY THEY DON'T WANT TO REDISTRICT.
ABOUT 72% OF DEMOCRATS SAY THEY DO.
INDEPENDENTS, A LITTLE MORE DON'T.BUT THE MESSAGING ON
REDISTRICTING SIMPLY HAS NOT PENETRATED TO THE PUBLIC SO THAT
WITH A NEUTRAL QUESTION, THEY AUTOMATICALLY THINK OF IT IN
TERMS OF PARTISANSHIP AND GERRYMANDERING. IF THEY DI
D, WE'D PROBABLY SEE MORE REPUBLICAN OPPOSED, BUT
WE'D ALSO SEE MORE DEMOCRATS AND INDEPENDENTS OPPOSED.
THAT MESSAGING JUST HASN'T GOTTEN THROUGH YET.
>> WE HAVE LESS THAN A MINUTE WITH A BIG TOPIC THAT IS
ABORTION. DOES THIS TOPIC CONTINUE TO SAY
RESONANT?>> I THINK IT DOES .
WHAT WE SEE IS ABOUT 57% FAVOR ABORTION RIGHTS, ABOUT 35
OPPOSED. THAT'S THE DEEP PARTISAN DIVIDE
AND ALSO THE PARTY DIVIDE IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE LEGISLATURE.
>> ALL RIGHT. CHARLES FRANKLIN, THANKS VERY
MUCH.>> THANK YOU. >> WE TURN NOW TO OUR SERIES OF
SPECIAL REPORTS ON RACE WITH WISCONSIN IN BLACK AND WHITE, IN
PARTNERSHIP WITH THE NEHEMIAH CENTER FOR URBAN LEADERSHIP
DEVELOPMENT. LAST WEEK, REPORTER NATHAN
DENZIN EXAMINED WHY THERE IS A LARGE GAP IN MATERNAL AND INFANT
HEALTH. TONIGHT, WE TAKE A LOOK AT BLACK
MEN'S HEALTH AND ONE MAN'S JOURNEY TO IMPROVE OUTCOMES FOR
AS MANY PEOPLE AS HE CAN. HERE'S THE NEXT INSTALLMENT OF
WISCONSIN IN BLACK AND WHITE: HEALTH DIVIDES.
- Nathan: In the summer of 2004,
Aaron Perry watched an Ironman competition in Madison
and it changed his life.
- I remember looking and watching
and I thought, you know,
"I wish I wasn't diabetic," 'cause I wanted to do it.
- Nathan: Perry has diabetes,
something that he shares with about 13% of Black Americans.
In fact, Black Americans are 60% more likely
to be diagnosed with diabetes than white Americans.
Black men are nearly twice as likely to die from diabetes
than white men, and are two and a half times
more likely to be hospitalized.
But diabetes isn't the only health issue facing Black men.
- You know, we face 'em from A to Z.
We're everywhere in that, you know, hypertension,
diabetes, heart disease, stroke.
We're starting to see a lot of lung cancer
and prostate cancer.
- Nathan: Black men also have the
second-lowest life expectancy of any group in America,
at about 67 years.
To take back control of his own health,
Perry found a running group to help him train
for the grueling race, which includes a 2.4-mile swim,
112-mile bicycle ride, and a marathon 26-mile run.
- Aaron: And one of my mentors, Dino Lucas,
said to me, he said, "Aaron, join our running club.
We'll get you to the finish line."
- Nathan: By the time race day had come,
Perry felt better than ever.
- I remember thinking as I'm getting ready
to get in the water, "Aaron, you have taken yourself
"from poor control of your diabetes
"and within 360-plus days, you've transformed yourself
into one of the fittest athletes in the world."
- Nathan: Just over 16 and a half hours later,
Perry became the first African-American diabetic
to complete an Ironman.
After the race,
he started to get questions from diabetics around the world
asking for health advice.
That's when Perry started to get serious
about his peers' health
and founded the Rebalanced-Life Wellness Association.
- When I started doing this work here
in Madison and Dane County,
the average age of death was 51 years of age for Black men,
and if that's not a crisis, I don't know what it is.
- Nathan: Around 2009, Perry had the idea
to put free health clinics in Black barbershops
to catch men for a quick screening as they came
and went for their cuts.
- Aaron: I did the research and back in the early 1900s,
the barbershop was everything.
The barbershop was where the pharmacist was at.
That was where the doctor was at,
and so I looked at that and I thought,
"How can we bring that full circle?"
- Nathan: Perry says cancellation rates
for barbershop appointments is less than 1%,
a far cry from the high cancellation rates
clinics see from Black men.
- The fact that we're not treated the same
when we go to the doctor,
we don't receive the same level of care.
- Nathan: Reggie Jackson educates people about diversity.
He says that Black men can be reluctant to see a doctor
because of experiences where medical professionals
didn't take their concerns seriously.
- A lot of doctors assume that, well,
if I give this Black person a specific protocol to follow
because of this condition they have, well,
they're not gonna follow it anyway,
so I'm not gonna even put them into that space.
- Nathan: A barbershop, on the other hand.
- Aaron: All of these guys, they trust their barbers.
They trust them with their life,
they trust them with their kids' lives.
- Nathan: So he started writing grants
to the state government,
asking for seed money to jumpstart the idea,
but that idea took time to catch on.
- Keep in mind, I'm a former cop.
I came into the barbershop saying,
"I want to help you get healthy."
You know, that was not well-received.
It took me quite a few years.
- Nathan: Then in 2016,
after being denied another round of state grants,
SSM Health decided to give Perry's idea a shot.
The first barbershop to get a clinic:
JP Hair Design in Madison.
His idea was simple.
In the extra office space JP had available,
Perry would set up and catch men as they finished their haircut.
Guys could get blood pressure screenings, flu shots,
diabetes, glucose, and cholesterol testing,
all for free.
- Aaron: So we literally have changed the culture
in the barbershops on how the conversations go.
It's no longer sports and politics;
it's health, sports, and politics.
- Nathan: Perry now has clinics
in four Madison-area barbershops,
which he says reaches about 30% of the Black men
in Dane County.
- Erin Hall: The initiative that we're working on
is to try to bring health care to as many people as possible.
- Nathan: Erin Hall owns Resilient Hair Designs
and says he's dedicated to Perry's vision for health care.
- It's bringing health care back into the community.
We're taking it away from the clinic and hospital walls,
and we're bringing it back into the community where it belongs.
- Nathan: Along with the barbershops,
Perry started his own health center next to JP Hair Design
that can do more for patients than a small clinic could.
- Thank you. - Thank you.
Appreciate it.
- Nathan: The clinic's trained nurses
work with men to get them healthy.
- What we tell them right up front, as of today,
whatever's going on with you, we're gonna stabilize you.
You will not get worse.
You're going to get better from this point on.
If it's a concern with housing, we wanna help them have housing.
If a concern with, you know, whether it's you know,
relationships, we are gonna have them connected
with a mental health counselor.
- Nathan: Even with the clinics and barbershops
and his standalone health center,
Perry wants to take his idea further.
The next step, opening a clinic
in Madison's Second Baptist Church.
- Aaron: The culture with the Black community, you know,
we are naturally, you know, a faith-based people, you know,
and the majority go to church.
- Nathan: The clinic opens in the fall of 2023
to serve the community on Sundays,
though Perry says more days may be added as needed.
- We want these neighborhoods to be health villages.
We want them to be places
where low income and uninsured people
can still have access to care,
and by bringing this back into the community
such as churches, barbershops, and free clinics,
that is what we're hoping to achieve.
- Nathan: By combining all three,
Perry is launching what he calls Brother Care Health,
a health care model designed to operate
in underserved neighborhoods.
- When you walk out your front door,
you should be able to walk out your front door
and see health in your community.
- Nathan: While Perry is working on seeing health
in Dane County communities,
he says he's given advice to people all over the country,
including places like Maryland, California,
and Washington, D.C.
- This model has been replicated
all across the United States, you know,
and it started right here, so we're proud of that.
- Nathan: For Here & Now, I'm Nathan Denzin.
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