% >>> THIS TIME THE SHOOTER
% WREAKED HAVOC IN HIGHLAND PARK
% AND DROVE TO MADISON.
% NEXT TIME, IT COULD BE ANYWHERE.
% ON HIS WAY HERE, HE DROVE PAST
% HUNDREDS OF COMMUNITIES,
% CELEBRATING THE FOURTH OF JULY.
% ALL OF US ARE AT RISK WHEN
% WEAPONS OF WAR ARE ON OUR
% STREETS.
% >> MADISON MAYOR SATYA RHODES
% CONWAY.
% IT'S DESCRIBED AS THE WEAPON OF
% VOICE FOR MASS SHOOTERS, AS IN
% HIGHLAND PARK, THE ARHI 15 STYLE
% RIFLE.
% OUR NEXT GUEST HAS A LOT OF
% THOUGHTS ON MASS SHOOTINGS AS A
% MILWAUKEE IMAGE ROOM PHYSICIAN.
% IN ADDITION TO EVENING AN E.R.
% FIGURES, DR. STEPHAN HARGARTEN
% IS FOUNDING DIRECTOR OF THE
% COMPREHENSIVE INJURY CENTER AT
% MEDICAL COLLEGE OF WISCONSIN.
% HE HAS THOUGHTS AND RESEARCH
% ABOUT THE MAIMING AND KILLING
% POTENTIAL OF ASSAULT RIFLES.
% HE JOINS US NOW.
% >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
% >> FIRST, WHEN YOU SAW THE
% HIGHLAND PARK SHOOTING, WHAT WAS
% YOUR MEET REACTION?
% >> WELL, WHAT I SAW WAS REALLY
% THROUGH THE MEDIA THAT WAS
% REPORTING ON IT.
% AND I IMMEDIATELY THOUGHT THERE
% MUST BE AN AR-STYLE RIFLE BEING
% USED TO INFLICT THE DEATHS AND
% INJURIES THAT WERE DONE IN SUCH
% A SHORED PER -- SHORT PERIOD OF
% TIME, AND THAT'S VERY
% CHARACTERISTIC OF THE SHOOTINGS%
IN OTHER SETTINGS.
% >> YOU DESCRIBED THE VELOCITY OF
% THE BULLET USED AS HAVING
% DEVASTATING WOUNDING POTENTIAL.
% HOW SO?
% >> WELL, BULLETS ARE -- RELEASED
% FROM IN THIS CASE FROM A RIFLE.
% THEY HAVE A VELOCITY THAT'S OVER
% TWO TO 3,000 FEET PER SECOND.
% AND KINETIC ENERGY, WHICH IS
% DEFINED BY THE MASS OF THE
% BULLET, BUT THE VELOCITY BULLET
% SQUARED QUANTITYIFIES THE AMOUNT
% OF -- QUANTIFIES THE AMOUNT OF
% ENERGY THAT'S DISPLACING TISSUE
% BOTH PRIMARILY FROM THE BULLET
% BUT FROM THE TEMPORARY CAVITY
% THAT'S FORMED BY THIS KINETIC
% RELEASE AND THAT TEARS THROUGH
% ORGANS SUCH AS -- THROUGH ORGANS
% AND RESULTS IN FRACTURES AND
% DEVASTATING INJURIES THAT YOU
% DON'T SEE WITH OTHER CALIBER
% GUNS -- BULLETS FROM LET'S SAY A
% HANDGUN.
% >> I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT HOW
% YOUR RESEARCH ZEROS IN ON THE
% FIREPOWER OF THESE AR-15-STYLE
% WEEKENDS.
% TO ASSAULT RIFLE BULLETS, HOW DO
% THEY TO OTHER AMMUNITION IN
% TERMS OF THIS FIRE HOUR?
% >> IN TERMS LET'S SAY A 9
% MILLIMETER FROM A HANDGUN, THIS
% IS RIFLE IS BULLET 9 TIMES
% GREATER IN TERMS OF ITS KINETIC
% ENERGY RELEASE AND TEMPORARY
% CAVITY FORMATIONS ABOUT THREE TO
% FOUR TIMES HIGHER.
% SO THERE'S A BIG VARIATION FROM
% CALIBER BULLETS FROM HANDGUNS
% AND SO WE SEE THE PREDICTABLE
% OUTCOMES OF HAVING DEVASTATING
% INJURIES BECAUSE THESE
% BLULETS -- BULLETS ARE TRAVELING
% SO FAST.
% >> DEVASTATING INJURIES AND
% ALMOST CERTAIN DEATH, CORRECT?
% >> WELL, IN THE CASE OF LET'S
% SAY SANDY HOOK, ALL 20 OF THOSE
% CHILDREN WHO WERE STRUCK BY THE
% BULLETS DIED.
% THIS WERE -- THERE WERE NO
% SURVIVORS IN THAT AGE GROUP.
% AND IT'S THE SAME I BELIEVE IN
% THIS UVALDE TRAGEDY IN TEXAS.
% THESE BULLETS RESULT IN
% DEVASTATING PREDICTABLE
% INJURIES.%AND I THINK THEY'R
E MORE SEVERE.
% WE DON'T HAVE THAT DATA.
% IT'S HARD TO DO.
% BUT IT'S CERTAINLY MORE SEVERE
% IN THE YOUNGER AGE GROUPS.
% THEY HAVE THERE IS RESERVE TO AT
% LEAST IMMEDIATELY SURVIVE THESE
% INJURIES AND GET TO HOSPITALS
% AND OUR EMERGENCY DEPARTMENTS
% AND TRAUMA CENTERS.
% >> YOU'VE WRITTEN ABOUT HOW THE
% SECOND PASSED -- SECOND
% AMENDMENT COULD NOT HAVE
% ANTICIPATED THE RIFLE AND BULLET
% TECHNOLOGY OF TODAY.
% WHAT'S YOUR EXAMPLE OF THAT?
% >> WELL, WHEN WE DID THE
% CALCULATIONS, THE ENERGY
% RELEASES AND -- RELEASED AND HOW
% MANY BULLETETS CAN BE -- BULLETS
% CAN BE RELEASED, THE SANDY
% SHOOTER RELEASED 154 BULLETS IN
% LESS THAN FOUR MINUTES.
% YOU CALCULATE A MILITIA PERSON
% IN THE 1780s WHEN THE SECOND
% AMENDMENT WAS FRAMED, THAT
% INDIVIDUAL RELEASED SO MANY MORE
% BULLETS OVER ONE MINUTE THAN A
% MILITIA PERSON COULD DO.
% AND THE ENERGY RELEASE OF THE
% BULLETS FROM THE AR-STEIFF 15
% RESULT VERSUS A MUSKET BALL, WE
% ESTIMATED THIS INDIVIDUAL
% REPRESENTED ABOUT 170 MILITIA
% ATTACKING SANDY HOOK SCHOOL.
% >> THERE IS PRESSION DIFFERENT
% FOR REGULATING THE -- PRECEDENT
% FOR REGULATING THE STYLE AND
% MECHANICS OF THE FOORMS SUCH AS
% THE 1934 RESTRICTIONS ON GUN
% GUNS.
% WERE NOT ON AR15 STYLE RIFLES
% AND THEIR AM US IN?
% >> SURE.
% IT'S A GO-AHEAD EXAM ABOUT --
% EXAMPLE ABOUT HOW THE FEDERAL
% LEVEL DISCUSSIONS CHANGED IN THE
% LATE '20s AND EARLY '30s
% FROM A SERIES OF GANGLAND-STYLE
% MASS SHOOTINGS THAT OCCURRED,
% THE SAINT VALENTINES DAY
% MASSACRE.
% THERE WAS ALSO AN ASSASSINATION
% ATTEMPT ON THEN-PRESIDENT
% ROOSEVELT, RESULTED IN 1934
% REGULATION -- REGULATION OF IN
% THIS CASE A THOMPSON MACHINE GUN
% WHICH FIRES A 4- -- .45 CALIBER
% BULLET.
% AND THAT'S RESULTED IN PEOPLE
% OWNING THIS GUN BUT SEF A
% REGISTRATION REQUIREMENT AND
% MILD TAX, AND YET FOR 80 YEARS,
% THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A MASS
% SHOOTING WITH A THOMPSON MACHINE
% GUN.
% AND WE FEEL THAT PERHAPS THIS IS
% AN APPROACH FOR ASSAULT-STYLE
% RIVALS, TO CONSIDER THIS
% APPROACH -- RIFLES, TO CONSIDER
% THIS APPROACH FOR FOR COL --
% CONTROLLING THE FIREFIGHTER
% AVAILABILITY IN THE COMMUNITY
% BY, IF YOU WANT TO HAVE THIS
% FIREARM, THEN YOU REGISTER IT
% AND THERE'S A TAX SIMILAR TO
% WHAT THEY'RE DOING WITH
% 3-POINT -- THOMPSON MACHINE
% GUNS.
% >> WHAT MIGHT BE CONTEMPLATED AS
% PUBLIC HEALTH DOES NOT BAN OR
% SEIZING WEAPONS, WHICH THE
% POSSESSION OF WHICH IS ENSHRINED
% IN THE SECOND AMENDMENT?
% >> I'M NOT HERE TO DISCUSS --
% NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL EXPERT ON
% THE CONTINUING INTERPRETATION OF
% THIS.%BUT I FIND IT TO BE NO
TABLE THAT
% THE TECHNOLOGY HAS EMERGED AS IT
% HAS IN THIS CASE THIS PRODUCT,
% THAT'S EQUIVALENT TO OTHER
% FIREARMS THAT ARE REGULATED LIKE
% THE THOMPSON MACHINE GUN AND
% IT'S SO DIFFERENT THAN THE
% INTELLIGENCES BACK WHEN THE
% FRAMERS OF THE CONSTITUTION
% THOUGHT ABOUT HAVING A
% WELL-REGULATED MILITIA.
% SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO,
% ONE, WE HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS
% TO, BASE OUT A SCIENCE-ORIENTED,
% SCIENCE-INFORMED PLATFORM THAT
% HAS PEOPLE COMING TOGETHER TO
% DISCUSS WHAT IS APPROPRIATE FOR
% POSSESSION, FOR HUNTING, FOR
% SELF-PROTECTION, FOR SPORTING,
% AND WHAT PERHAPS IS SOMETHING
% ELSE THAT COULD BE OR SHOULD BE
% REGULATED IN A DIFFERENT
% FASHION.%>> WE LEAVE IT THERE
.
% DR. STEPHAN HARGARTEN, THANKS