% VERY MUCH.
% >> THANK YOU.
% >>> DESPITE THE DAMAGE THEY CAN
% DO, THE PURCHASE AND USE OF
% THESE WEAPONS IS STILL FULLY
% LEGAL AND ADAMANTLY SUPPORTED BY
% MANY SECOND AMENDMENT DEFENDERS.
% WE GO NOW TO ONE SUCH DEFENDER,
% TOM GRIEVE A CRIMINAL DEFENSE
% ATTORNEY.
% HE JOINS US NOW.
% THANKS FOR HAVING HERE.
% >> THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON.
% >> WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO THE
% CARNAGE OF THE FOURTH OF JULY
% PARADE AND THE NEWS THAT THE
% SHOOTER CAME TO MADISON AND
% CONDUMB PLATED A SIMILAR ACT IN
% THIS STATE?
% >> AWFUL PEOPLE AND SICK PEOPLE
% DO AWFUL AND SICK THINGS.
% MY HEART GOES OUT AS ALWAYS TO
% THOSE WHO WERE AFFECTED S. EVIL
% PEOPLE DOING EVIL THINGS.
% >> EVERY TIME THERE IS A MASS
% SHOOTING WITH AN AR15-STYLE
% RIFLE, THERE IS CALLS TO BAN
% THEM N. YOUR MIND, WHY SHOULDN'T
% THEY BE BANNED?
% >> WELL, AR-15s AND HANDGUNS
% BOAT REPRESENT THE PINNACLE OF
% SELF-DEFENSE PROTECTION.
% THE PINNACLE OF THE SECOND
% AMENDMENT, WHICH IS MORE THAN
% SIMPLY SELF-PROTECTION, THOUGH
% THAT'S CERTAINLY AT ITS CORE.
% THE SUPREME COURT HAS COTFIED
% OVER THE -- CODIFIED BACK TO
% 1939 THE FACT THAT ORDINARY
% MILITARY WEAPONS AND -- MILITARY
% WEAPONS AND ORDINARY WEAPONS ARE
% GUARANTEED CONSTITUTIONAL
% PROTECTIONS.%WHEN WE LOOK AT
THE BODY OF
% INJURIES FRIEWNDZ WHICH THESE --
% JURIS PRUDENCE WHICH THESE
% ARE -- HOW MANY FIREARMS,
% REGARDLESS OF THE STUDY, IN ANY
% GIVEN YEAR OR WHETHER OR NOT WE
% LOOK AT WHAT IS STATISTICALLY A
% VERY SMALL SUBSET OF INDIVIDUALS
% WHO ARE IMPACTED BY AR-15 AND
% AR-15-STYLE WEAPONS.
% IT'S -- IT'S -- IT'S GOING TO BE
% EXTRAORDINARILY DIFFICULT AND
% WHEN WE LOOK AT HOW GOOD THEY
% ARE AS FAR AS PROTECTING OUR
% RIGHTS, I THINK THAT'S A VERY
% DIFFICULT CASE TO MAKE.
% >> A STATISTICALLY SMALL NUMBER
% OF PEOPLE IMPACTED BY THESE
% WEAPONS, BUT WHEN THOSE MASS
% SHOOTINGS HAPPEN, AS YOU
% EXPRESSED, IT IS REALLY TRAGIC.
% BUT WHAT ARE SEMI-AUTOMATIC
% ASSAULT LIVES -- RIFLES USED FOR
% BY ORDINARY CIVILIANS WHEN THEY
% WERE DESIGNED FOR MILITARY USE?
% >> WELL, THEY'RE USED JUST LIKE
% ANY OTHER WEAPON.
% THEY'RE USED FOR FUN.
% THEY'RE USED FOR PERSONAL
% DEFENSE.%THEY CAN BE USED FOR
HUNTING.
% THE AR-15 IS AN EXTRA MODULAR
% PLATFORM, WHICH IS THE WEEKEND
% THERE'S 20 MILLION IN
% CIRCULATION AROUND THE
% UNITED STATES AND IT'S BEEN
% DUBBED AMERICA'S FAVORITE RIFLE.
% >> AND INDEED.
% SO YOU DESCRIBE YOURSELF AS A
% ZELL -- ZEALOUS SECOND AMENDMENT
% ADVOCATE.%HE SAID THE RIFLES
AREE
% POTENTIALLY MORE THAN DANGEROUS
% THAN MUSKETS USED DURING THE
% TIME THE SECOND AMENDMENT WAS
% WRITTEN.
% SO WHY SHOULD THESE BE TREATED
% THE SAME AS A HUNTING LIFE?
% >> SAME WAY THAT BROADCAST
% TELEVISION SUCH AS PBS OR A
% PRIVATE-BASED ORGANIZATION IS
% TREATED THE SAME AS THOUGH YOU
% KNOW, THE RIGHTS THAT WERE
% GUARANTEED BACK AT THE TIME OF
% THE FOUNDING FATHERS.
% THE TECHNOLOGIES HAVE SCALED BUT
% THE PROBLEMS AND THE VIRTUES
% THAT THEY ADDRESS AND THE VALUES
% THAT UNDERPIN THEM REMAIN THE
% SAME.
% >> PROBLEMS LIKE FOR
% SELF-DEFENSE, YOU MEAN?
% >> FOR SELF-YES, ABSOLUTELY.
% COULD REGULATING ASSAULT --
% >> WOULD REGULATING ASSAULT
% RIFLES LIKE THEY REGULATE
% MACHINE GUNS NOW BE TANTAMOUNT
% IN YOUR MIND TO KIND OF SEIZING
% PEOPLE'S WEAPONS OR VIOLATING
% THE SECOND AMENDMENT?
% >> WE DID SOMETHING EFFECTIVELY
% MOUNTING TO THAT DURING THE
% ASSAULT WEAPONS INSPECTION
% BACK -- BAN, WHICH WAS A
% 10-YEAR BAN.
% THERE WAS A STUDY THAT WAS
% COMMISSIONED TO FIGURE OUT
% BASICALLY HOW EFFECTIVE WAS
% THIS.%AND THE NATIONAL INSST
OOD OF
% JUSTICE RELEASED -- INSTITUTE OF
% JUSTICE RELEASED THERE'S NO-NO
% DISCERNIBLE LETHALITY AND
% INJURIOUS BECAUSE OF ASSAULT
% WEAPONS AND THEY TALKED ABOUT
% THE FACT THAT IT'S PREMATURE TO
% MAKE DEFINITIVE ASSESSMENTS ON
% THE BAN'S IMPACT.
% BUT EVEN IF IT WERE RENEWED, ANY
% SUCH MOVING OF THE NEEDLE WOULD
% BE SO SMALL IF IT EXISTS AT ALL
% THAT IT'S BASICALLY -- IT'S TOO
% SMALL TO BE MEASURED BY ANY
% RELIABLE INSTRUMENT, ACCORDING
% TO STATISTICAL STUDIES.
% IN OTHER WORDS, BOTTOM LINE THEY
% SAID IT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING.
% >> WHAT'S YOUR INFORMATION ON
% UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS AS
% HAS BEEN CALLED FOR?
% >> I DON'T SEE THEM SOLVING
% ANYTHING.%AS I WOULD NOTE IN
A 2016 SURVEY
% OF PRISON INMATES, 90% OF THEM
% SAID THEY DIDN'T PURCHASE THEIR
% FIREARMS FROM ANY KIND OF RETAIL
% STORE OR BACKGROUND.
% AS SOMEBODY WHO'S FORM BOTH A
% FORMER STATE PROSECUTOR AS WELL
% AS THE LEADER OF THE LARGEST
% CRIMINAL DEFENSE CENTER FIRM IN
% WISCONSIN, I'VE HAD AN
% OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE ANY NUMBER
% OF CONVERSATIONS WITH FOLKS WITH
% SOME CHECKERED HISTORIES, LET'S
% SAY.
% THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT UNIVERSAL
% BACKGROUND CHECKS.
% >> TOM GRIEVE, THANKS VERY MUCH.