% >> Announcer: THE FOLLOWING
% PROGRAM IS A PBS WISCONSIN
% ORIGINAL PRODUCTION.
% >>> CERTAINLY OUR INVESTIGATION
% IS -- IS GONE VERY MUCH UNTIL
% WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE SHOOK,
% WHAT CRIMO'S PLAN WAS.
% INVESTIGATORS DID DEVELOP SOME
% INFORMATION THAT IT APPEARS WHEN
% HE DROVE TO MADISON HE WAS
% DRIVING AROUND.
% HOWEVER, HE DID SEE A
% CELEBRATION THAT WAS OCCURRING
% IN MADISON.
% AND HE SERIOUSLY CONTEMPLATED
% USING THE FIREARM HE HAD IN HIS
% VEHICLE TO COMMIT ANOTHER
% SHOOTING.
% IN MADISON.
% >> ANOTHER MASS SHOOTING
% DEVASTATES AN ILLINOIS
% COMMUNITY.%AND HITS CLOSE TO
HOME IN
% WISCONSIN.
% I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
% TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," AN
% EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN ON THE
% DAMAGE AN AR-15 STYLE RIFLE CAN
% DO TO THE HUMAN BODY.
% A DEFENSE ATTORNEY ON WHY THESE
% FIREARMS ARE STILL LEGAL.
% AND SPEAKING TO THE LAW
% ENFORCEMENT EMERGENCY RESPONSE.
% IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR JULY
% 8th.
% >>> THIS TIME THE SHOOTER
% WREAKED HAVOC IN HIGHLAND PARK
% AND DROVE TO MADISON.
% NEXT TIME, IT COULD BE ANYWHERE.
% ON HIS WAY HERE, HE DROVE PAST
% HUNDREDS OF COMMUNITIES,
% CELEBRATING THE FOURTH OF JULY.
% ALL OF US ARE AT RISK WHEN
% WEAPONS OF WAR ARE ON OUR
% STREETS.
% >> MADISON MAYOR SATYA RHODES
% CONWAY.
% IT'S DESCRIBED AS THE WEAPON OF
% VOICE FOR MASS SHOOTERS, AS IN
% HIGHLAND PARK, THE ARHI 15 STYLE
% RIFLE.
% OUR NEXT GUEST HAS A LOT OF
% THOUGHTS ON MASS SHOOTINGS AS A
% MILWAUKEE IMAGE ROOM PHYSICIAN.
% IN ADDITION TO EVENING AN E.R.
% FIGURES, DR. STEPHAN HARGARTEN
% IS FOUNDING DIRECTOR OF THE
% COMPREHENSIVE INJURY CENTER AT
% MEDICAL COLLEGE OF WISCONSIN.
% HE HAS THOUGHTS AND RESEARCH
% ABOUT THE MAIMING AND KILLING
% POTENTIAL OF ASSAULT RIFLES.
% HE JOINS US NOW.
% >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
% >> FIRST, WHEN YOU SAW THE
% HIGHLAND PARK SHOOTING, WHAT WAS
% YOUR MEET REACTION?
% >> WELL, WHAT I SAW WAS REALLY
% THROUGH THE MEDIA THAT WAS
% REPORTING ON IT.
% AND I IMMEDIATELY THOUGHT THERE
% MUST BE AN AR-STYLE RIFLE BEING
% USED TO INFLICT THE DEATHS AND
% INJURIES THAT WERE DONE IN SUCH
% A SHORED PER -- SHORT PERIOD OF
% TIME, AND THAT'S VERY
% CHARACTERISTIC OF THE SHOOTINGS%
IN OTHER SETTINGS.
% >> YOU DESCRIBED THE VELOCITY OF
% THE BULLET USED AS HAVING
% DEVASTATING WOUNDING POTENTIAL.
% HOW SO?
% >> WELL, BULLETS ARE -- RELEASED
% FROM IN THIS CASE FROM A RIFLE.
% THEY HAVE A VELOCITY THAT'S OVER
% TWO TO 3,000 FEET PER SECOND.
% AND KINETIC ENERGY, WHICH IS
% DEFINED BY THE MASS OF THE
% BULLET, BUT THE VELOCITY BULLET
% SQUARED QUANTITYIFIES THE AMOUNT
% OF -- QUANTIFIES THE AMOUNT OF
% ENERGY THAT'S DISPLACING TISSUE
% BOTH PRIMARILY FROM THE BULLET
% BUT FROM THE TEMPORARY CAVITY
% THAT'S FORMED BY THIS KINETIC
% RELEASE AND THAT TEARS THROUGH
% ORGANS SUCH AS -- THROUGH ORGANS
% AND RESULTS IN FRACTURES AND
% DEVASTATING INJURIES THAT YOU
% DON'T SEE WITH OTHER CALIBER
% GUNS -- BULLETS FROM LET'S SAY A
% HANDGUN.
% >> I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT HOW
% YOUR RESEARCH ZEROS IN ON THE
% FIREPOWER OF THESE AR-15-STYLE
% WEEKENDS.
% TO ASSAULT RIFLE BULLETS, HOW DO
% THEY TO OTHER AMMUNITION IN
% TERMS OF THIS FIRE HOUR?
% >> IN TERMS LET'S SAY A 9
% MILLIMETER FROM A HANDGUN, THIS
% IS RIFLE IS BULLET 9 TIMES
% GREATER IN TERMS OF ITS KINETIC
% ENERGY RELEASE AND TEMPORARY
% CAVITY FORMATIONS ABOUT THREE TO
% FOUR TIMES HIGHER.
% SO THERE'S A BIG VARIATION FROM
% CALIBER BULLETS FROM HANDGUNS
% AND SO WE SEE THE PREDICTABLE
% OUTCOMES OF HAVING DEVASTATING
% INJURIES BECAUSE THESE
% BLULETS -- BULLETS ARE TRAVELING
% SO FAST.
% >> DEVASTATING INJURIES AND
% ALMOST CERTAIN DEATH, CORRECT?
% >> WELL, IN THE CASE OF LET'S
% SAY SANDY HOOK, ALL 20 OF THOSE
% CHILDREN WHO WERE STRUCK BY THE
% BULLETS DIED.
% THIS WERE -- THERE WERE NO
% SURVIVORS IN THAT AGE GROUP.
% AND IT'S THE SAME I BELIEVE IN
% THIS UVALDE TRAGEDY IN TEXAS.
% THESE BULLETS RESULT IN
% DEVASTATING PREDICTABLE
% INJURIES.%AND I THINK THEY'R
E MORE SEVERE.
% WE DON'T HAVE THAT DATA.
% IT'S HARD TO DO.
% BUT IT'S CERTAINLY MORE SEVERE
% IN THE YOUNGER AGE GROUPS.
% THEY HAVE THERE IS RESERVE TO AT
% LEAST IMMEDIATELY SURVIVE THESE
% INJURIES AND GET TO HOSPITALS
% AND OUR EMERGENCY DEPARTMENTS
% AND TRAUMA CENTERS.
% >> YOU'VE WRITTEN ABOUT HOW THE
% SECOND PASSED -- SECOND
% AMENDMENT COULD NOT HAVE
% ANTICIPATED THE RIFLE AND BULLET
% TECHNOLOGY OF TODAY.
% WHAT'S YOUR EXAMPLE OF THAT?
% >> WELL, WHEN WE DID THE
% CALCULATIONS, THE ENERGY
% RELEASES AND -- RELEASED AND HOW
% MANY BULLETETS CAN BE -- BULLETS
% CAN BE RELEASED, THE SANDY
% SHOOTER RELEASED 154 BULLETS IN
% LESS THAN FOUR MINUTES.
% YOU CALCULATE A MILITIA PERSON
% IN THE 1780s WHEN THE SECOND
% AMENDMENT WAS FRAMED, THAT
% INDIVIDUAL RELEASED SO MANY MORE
% BULLETS OVER ONE MINUTE THAN A
% MILITIA PERSON COULD DO.
% AND THE ENERGY RELEASE OF THE
% BULLETS FROM THE AR-STEIFF 15
% RESULT VERSUS A MUSKET BALL, WE
% ESTIMATED THIS INDIVIDUAL
% REPRESENTED ABOUT 170 MILITIA
% ATTACKING SANDY HOOK SCHOOL.
% >> THERE IS PRESSION DIFFERENT
% FOR REGULATING THE -- PRECEDENT
% FOR REGULATING THE STYLE AND
% MECHANICS OF THE FOORMS SUCH AS
% THE 1934 RESTRICTIONS ON GUN
% GUNS.
% WERE NOT ON AR15 STYLE RIFLES
% AND THEIR AM US IN?
% >> SURE.
% IT'S A GO-AHEAD EXAM ABOUT --
% EXAMPLE ABOUT HOW THE FEDERAL
% LEVEL DISCUSSIONS CHANGED IN THE
% LATE '20s AND EARLY '30s
% FROM A SERIES OF GANGLAND-STYLE
% MASS SHOOTINGS THAT OCCURRED,
% THE SAINT VALENTINES DAY
% MASSACRE.
% THERE WAS ALSO AN ASSASSINATION
% ATTEMPT ON THEN-PRESIDENT
% ROOSEVELT, RESULTED IN 1934
% REGULATION -- REGULATION OF IN
% THIS CASE A THOMPSON MACHINE GUN
% WHICH FIRES A 4- -- .45 CALIBER
% BULLET.
% AND THAT'S RESULTED IN PEOPLE
% OWNING THIS GUN BUT SEF A
% REGISTRATION REQUIREMENT AND
% MILD TAX, AND YET FOR 80 YEARS,
% THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A MASS
% SHOOTING WITH A THOMPSON MACHINE
% GUN.
% AND WE FEEL THAT PERHAPS THIS IS
% AN APPROACH FOR ASSAULT-STYLE
% RIVALS, TO CONSIDER THIS
% APPROACH -- RIFLES, TO CONSIDER
% THIS APPROACH FOR FOR COL --
% CONTROLLING THE FIREFIGHTER
% AVAILABILITY IN THE COMMUNITY
% BY, IF YOU WANT TO HAVE THIS
% FIREARM, THEN YOU REGISTER IT
% AND THERE'S A TAX SIMILAR TO
% WHAT THEY'RE DOING WITH
% 3-POINT -- THOMPSON MACHINE
% GUNS.
% >> WHAT MIGHT BE CONTEMPLATED AS
% PUBLIC HEALTH DOES NOT BAN OR
% SEIZING WEAPONS, WHICH THE
% POSSESSION OF WHICH IS ENSHRINED
% IN THE SECOND AMENDMENT?
% >> I'M NOT HERE TO DISCUSS --
% NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL EXPERT ON
% THE CONTINUING INTERPRETATION OF
% THIS.%BUT I FIND IT TO BE NO
TABLE THAT
% THE TECHNOLOGY HAS EMERGED AS IT
% HAS IN THIS CASE THIS PRODUCT,
% THAT'S EQUIVALENT TO OTHER
% FIREARMS THAT ARE REGULATED LIKE
% THE THOMPSON MACHINE GUN AND
% IT'S SO DIFFERENT THAN THE
% INTELLIGENCES BACK WHEN THE
% FRAMERS OF THE CONSTITUTION
% THOUGHT ABOUT HAVING A
% WELL-REGULATED MILITIA.
% SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO,
% ONE, WE HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS
% TO, BASE OUT A SCIENCE-ORIENTED,
% SCIENCE-INFORMED PLATFORM THAT
% HAS PEOPLE COMING TOGETHER TO
% DISCUSS WHAT IS APPROPRIATE FOR
% POSSESSION, FOR HUNTING, FOR
% SELF-PROTECTION, FOR SPORTING,
% AND WHAT PERHAPS IS SOMETHING
% ELSE THAT COULD BE OR SHOULD BE
% REGULATED IN A DIFFERENT
% FASHION.%>> WE LEAVE IT THERE
.
% DR. STEPHAN HARGARTEN, THANKS
% VERY MUCH.
% >> THANK YOU.
% >>> DESPITE THE DAMAGE THEY CAN
% DO, THE PURCHASE AND USE OF
% THESE WEAPONS IS STILL FULLY
% LEGAL AND ADAMANTLY SUPPORTED BY
% MANY SECOND AMENDMENT DEFENDERS.
% WE GO NOW TO ONE SUCH DEFENDER,
% TOM GRIEVE A CRIMINAL DEFENSE
% ATTORNEY.
% HE JOINS US NOW.
% THANKS FOR HAVING HERE.
% >> THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON.
% >> WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO THE
% CARNAGE OF THE FOURTH OF JULY
% PARADE AND THE NEWS THAT THE
% SHOOTER CAME TO MADISON AND
% CONDUMB PLATED A SIMILAR ACT IN
% THIS STATE?
% >> AWFUL PEOPLE AND SICK PEOPLE
% DO AWFUL AND SICK THINGS.
% MY HEART GOES OUT AS ALWAYS TO
% THOSE WHO WERE AFFECTED S. EVIL
% PEOPLE DOING EVIL THINGS.
% >> EVERY TIME THERE IS A MASS
% SHOOTING WITH AN AR15-STYLE
% RIFLE, THERE IS CALLS TO BAN
% THEM N. YOUR MIND, WHY SHOULDN'T
% THEY BE BANNED?
% >> WELL, AR-15s AND HANDGUNS
% BOAT REPRESENT THE PINNACLE OF
% SELF-DEFENSE PROTECTION.
% THE PINNACLE OF THE SECOND
% AMENDMENT, WHICH IS MORE THAN
% SIMPLY SELF-PROTECTION, THOUGH
% THAT'S CERTAINLY AT ITS CORE.
% THE SUPREME COURT HAS COTFIED
% OVER THE -- CODIFIED BACK TO
% 1939 THE FACT THAT ORDINARY
% MILITARY WEAPONS AND -- MILITARY
% WEAPONS AND ORDINARY WEAPONS ARE
% GUARANTEED CONSTITUTIONAL
% PROTECTIONS.%WHEN WE LOOK AT
THE BODY OF
% INJURIES FRIEWNDZ WHICH THESE --
% JURIS PRUDENCE WHICH THESE
% ARE -- HOW MANY FIREARMS,
% REGARDLESS OF THE STUDY, IN ANY
% GIVEN YEAR OR WHETHER OR NOT WE
% LOOK AT WHAT IS STATISTICALLY A
% VERY SMALL SUBSET OF INDIVIDUALS
% WHO ARE IMPACTED BY AR-15 AND
% AR-15-STYLE WEAPONS.
% IT'S -- IT'S -- IT'S GOING TO BE
% EXTRAORDINARILY DIFFICULT AND
% WHEN WE LOOK AT HOW GOOD THEY
% ARE AS FAR AS PROTECTING OUR
% RIGHTS, I THINK THAT'S A VERY
% DIFFICULT CASE TO MAKE.
% >> A STATISTICALLY SMALL NUMBER
% OF PEOPLE IMPACTED BY THESE
% WEAPONS, BUT WHEN THOSE MASS
% SHOOTINGS HAPPEN, AS YOU
% EXPRESSED, IT IS REALLY TRAGIC.
% BUT WHAT ARE SEMI-AUTOMATIC
% ASSAULT LIVES -- RIFLES USED FOR
% BY ORDINARY CIVILIANS WHEN THEY
% WERE DESIGNED FOR MILITARY USE?
% >> WELL, THEY'RE USED JUST LIKE
% ANY OTHER WEAPON.
% THEY'RE USED FOR FUN.
% THEY'RE USED FOR PERSONAL
% DEFENSE.%THEY CAN BE USED FOR
HUNTING.
% THE AR-15 IS AN EXTRA MODULAR
% PLATFORM, WHICH IS THE WEEKEND
% THERE'S 20 MILLION IN
% CIRCULATION AROUND THE
% UNITED STATES AND IT'S BEEN
% DUBBED AMERICA'S FAVORITE RIFLE.
% >> AND INDEED.
% SO YOU DESCRIBE YOURSELF AS A
% ZELL -- ZEALOUS SECOND AMENDMENT
% ADVOCATE.%HE SAID THE RIFLES
AREE
% POTENTIALLY MORE THAN DANGEROUS
% THAN MUSKETS USED DURING THE
% TIME THE SECOND AMENDMENT WAS
% WRITTEN.
% SO WHY SHOULD THESE BE TREATED
% THE SAME AS A HUNTING LIFE?
% >> SAME WAY THAT BROADCAST
% TELEVISION SUCH AS PBS OR A
% PRIVATE-BASED ORGANIZATION IS
% TREATED THE SAME AS THOUGH YOU
% KNOW, THE RIGHTS THAT WERE
% GUARANTEED BACK AT THE TIME OF
% THE FOUNDING FATHERS.
% THE TECHNOLOGIES HAVE SCALED BUT
% THE PROBLEMS AND THE VIRTUES
% THAT THEY ADDRESS AND THE VALUES
% THAT UNDERPIN THEM REMAIN THE
% SAME.
% >> PROBLEMS LIKE FOR
% SELF-DEFENSE, YOU MEAN?
% >> FOR SELF-YES, ABSOLUTELY.
% COULD REGULATING ASSAULT --
% >> WOULD REGULATING ASSAULT
% RIFLES LIKE THEY REGULATE
% MACHINE GUNS NOW BE TANTAMOUNT
% IN YOUR MIND TO KIND OF SEIZING
% PEOPLE'S WEAPONS OR VIOLATING
% THE SECOND AMENDMENT?
% >> WE DID SOMETHING EFFECTIVELY
% MOUNTING TO THAT DURING THE
% ASSAULT WEAPONS INSPECTION
% BACK -- BAN, WHICH WAS A
% 10-YEAR BAN.
% THERE WAS A STUDY THAT WAS
% COMMISSIONED TO FIGURE OUT
% BASICALLY HOW EFFECTIVE WAS
% THIS.%AND THE NATIONAL INSST
OOD OF
% JUSTICE RELEASED -- INSTITUTE OF
% JUSTICE RELEASED THERE'S NO-NO
% DISCERNIBLE LETHALITY AND
% INJURIOUS BECAUSE OF ASSAULT
% WEAPONS AND THEY TALKED ABOUT
% THE FACT THAT IT'S PREMATURE TO
% MAKE DEFINITIVE ASSESSMENTS ON
% THE BAN'S IMPACT.
% BUT EVEN IF IT WERE RENEWED, ANY
% SUCH MOVING OF THE NEEDLE WOULD
% BE SO SMALL IF IT EXISTS AT ALL
% THAT IT'S BASICALLY -- IT'S TOO
% SMALL TO BE MEASURED BY ANY
% RELIABLE INSTRUMENT, ACCORDING
% TO STATISTICAL STUDIES.
% IN OTHER WORDS, BOTTOM LINE THEY
% SAID IT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING.
% >> WHAT'S YOUR INFORMATION ON
% UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS AS
% HAS BEEN CALLED FOR?
% >> I DON'T SEE THEM SOLVING
% ANYTHING.%AS I WOULD NOTE IN
A 2016 SURVEY
% OF PRISON INMATES, 90% OF THEM
% SAID THEY DIDN'T PURCHASE THEIR
% FIREARMS FROM ANY KIND OF RETAIL
% STORE OR BACKGROUND.
% AS SOMEBODY WHO'S FORM BOTH A
% FORMER STATE PROSECUTOR AS WELL
% AS THE LEADER OF THE LARGEST
% CRIMINAL DEFENSE CENTER FIRM IN
% WISCONSIN, I'VE HAD AN
% OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE ANY NUMBER
% OF CONVERSATIONS WITH FOLKS WITH
% SOME CHECKERED HISTORIES, LET'S
% SAY.
% THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT UNIVERSAL
% BACKGROUND CHECKS.
% >> TOM GRIEVE, THANKS VERY MUCH.
% >> THANK YOU.
% >>> NATIONAL POLICING EXPERT
% CONSULTANT AND FORMER CHIEF OF
% MADISON POLICE NOBLE RAY SAYS
% THE ESCALATION OF MASS SHOOTINGS
% AND THE USE OF ASTALL- --
% ASSAULT-STYLE RIFLES IS
% FRIGHTENING.
% WE TALKED ABOUT HOW THE HIGHLAND
% PARK SHOOTER THREAT CAME CLOSE
% TO HOME, ALTHOUGH POLICE ARE NOT
% SAYING WHICH CELEBRATION THE
% SUSPECT HAD HIS EYES ON.
% >> CHIEF RAY, THANKS VERY MUCH
% FOR JOINING US.
% >> ON THE FOURTH OF JULY WHEN
% YOU SAW WHAT HAPPENED IN
% HIGHLAND PARK, ILLINOIS, AS A
% FORMER POLICE OFFICER, POLICE
% CHIEF, AND CITIZEN, WHAT WAS
% YOUR REACTION?
% >> MY REACTION WAS, JUST UTTER
% TEST PAY FORMAN -- DESPAIR FOR
% THE PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE.
% YOU DON'T EXPECT FROM A LAW
% ENFORCEMENT STANDPOINT AND
% CITIZEN STANDPOINT OR SOMETHING
% LIKE THAT TO HAPPEN AT A PARADE.
% YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT AN URBAN
% CENTER, ALTHOUGH IT'S ADJACENT
% TO CHICAGO, YOU DON'T EXPECT
% THAT.
% AND I THINK PARENTS AND PEOPLE
% WERE JUST IN SHOCK.
% >> AND SO WE ALL KIND OF
% POTENTIAL TARGETS THEN AT ANY
% TIME FOR A MASS SHOOTER?
% >> YEAH, YOU KNOW.
% WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT
% PARADES, GROCERY STORES,
% ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS, YOU JUST
% NEVER KNOW WHERE THIS IS GOING
% TO HAPPEN.
% SO THAT IS WHY I KNOW THAT
% CONGRESS PASSED MAJOR
% LEGISLATION A FEW WEEKS AGO ON
% YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE COMPLEX
% ISSUE OF GUNS AND GUN SAFETY AND
% MASS SHOOTINGS.
% BUT I DON'T THINK WE'RE FINISHED
% WITH THIS.
% NOT -- NOT BY A LONG SHOT.
% THERE'S TREMENDOUS FEAR AND THIS
% TREMENDOUS FEAR CUTS ACROSS ALL
% KIND OF BOUNDARIES, RACIAL
% BOUNDARIES, RELIGIOUS
% BOUNDARIES, AGE, YOU KNOW,
% WHERE -- AS A PARENT, AS A GRAN
% PARENT, YOU KNOW -- GRANDPARENT,
% BECAUSE I THINK EVERY AMERICAN
% WHEN THEY LOOK AT THAT, THEY
% THINK OF THEMSELVES AND WHAT
% THEY WOULD DO.
% THEY CAN RELATE TO THAT BECAUSE
% IT'S HAPPENING IN COMMON PLACES.
% >> SO IF WE'RE NOT FINISHED,
% WHAT'S TO BE DONE?
% >> WHAT'S TO BE DONE IS -- I
% TEND TO GO TO GRAVITATE TO THE
% PEOPLE THAT TALK ABOUT THIS AS A
% MULTI-FACETED APPROACH.
% I THINK SPLITTING IT INTO A
% DICHOTOMY SAYING IT'S GUNS OR
% IT'S MENTAL HEALTH, DOES THE --
% THAT'S NOT -- DOES NOT HELP THE
% DIALOGUE ANY GOOD AT ALL,
% BECAUSE IT'S COMPLEX.
% HUNDREDS OF RED FLAG -- HOW DOES
% A RED FLAG LAW WORK.
% EVEN WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO -- AND
% THIS -- THIS PARTICULAR
% SITUATION IS STILL EVOLVING.
% BUT WE EXPECT A LOT FROM PARENTS
% AND RELATIVES TO BE THE ONES
% THAT WOULD CONTACT LAW
% ENFORCEMENT AND SAY, HEY, LOOK,
% MY CHILD WAS DOING THIS.
% THIS LOOKS OUT OF PLACE.
% BUT THEY ALSO HAVE A LOVING
% RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT CHILD.
% AND SO IT'S A VERY COMPLEX.
% NO ONE WANTS TO SEE THEIR KIDS
% IN HANDCUFFS, BUT THE QUESTION
% IS NO ONE DOES NOT WANT TO SEE
% THEIR KIDS HARM SOMEONE OR END
% UP IN PRISON FOR LIFE OR EVEN
% WORSE.
% >> MEANWHILE, WE LEARNED AFTER
% THE FACT THAT THE SUSPECT IN
% THIS HIGHLAND PARK MASS SHOOTING
% MADE HIS WAY TO WISCONSIN AND
% MADISON POTENTIALLY WITH SOME
% IDEA OF DOING SOMETHING SIMILAR
% HERE.
% WHEN YOU HEARD THAT, WHAT DID
% YOU THINK?
% >> WELL, AGAIN, IT GETS CLOSER,
% CLOSER TO HOME.
% SO IT BECOMES PERSONAL.
% AND SO WHAT I THOUGHT WAS A
% NUMBER OF THINGS IN MY -- FROM A
% PERSONAL STANDPOINT, I STARTED
% TO THINK ABOUT WHERE WE WERE,
% WHERE MY SONS WERE, WHERE MY
% GRANDKIDS WERE THAT DAY AND WHAT
% WE WERE DOING.
% DO THEY COULD INTO HARM'S PLACE.
% FROM A LAW ENFORCEMENT
% STANDPOINT, IT WAS -- YOU KNOW,
% HOW ARE THEY RESPONDING.
% WHAT ARE SOME OF THE TECHNIQUES
% THAT THEY'RE USING TO RESPOND?
% BECAUSE IT'S NOT COMMON FOR A
% MASS SHOOTER TO LEAVE THE SCENE.
% OR TYPICALLY THERE'S ARRESTED OR
% THERE'S A QUOTE/UNQUOTE SUICIDE
% BY COP OR THEY'RE ARRESTED
% PRETTY CLOSE TO THE SCENE.
% SO FOR SOMEONE WHO LEAVE A MASS
% SHOOTING WITH THAT MUCH
% DEVASTATION MAY GET NOT ONLY
% ACROSS STATE LINES TO ANOTHER
% CITY.%THAT'S RARE.
% AND THANK GOD IT'S RARE.
% BUT IT WAS -- IT WAS REALLY A
% TENSE MOMENT I THINK, FOR A
% COUPLE OF PEOPLE IN THE AREA.
% >> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT
% WHETHER OR NOT THE POPULATION --
% FOR A NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE
% AREA.%>> WHAT DO YOU THINK W
ERE THE
% POPULACE HERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN
% WARNED ABOUT THAT?
% >> I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING
% THAT I BELIEVE LAW ENFORCEMENT,
% THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES
% SHOULD GET TOGETHER AND DISCUSS
% THAT, HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN.
% WHO -- WHO NOTIFIES THE PUBLIC,
% WHAT INFORMATION SOME COME OUT?
% BECAUSE THERE IS A BALANCE.
% YOU KNOW, I THINK EVERYONE
% UNDERSTANDS WHAT YOU DO WHEN
% YOU'RE NOTIFIED OF AN AMBER
% ALERT, BUT WHO INFORMATION COMES
% OUT WHEN YOU HAVE A MASS
% SHOOTING AND YOU'RE NOTIFYING
% THE PUBLIC, YOU DON'T WANT THE
% PUBLIC TO GET TOO UPSET AND
% WHERE THEY'RE PARALYZED AND
% ACTING.%BUT IN THIS PARTICUL
AR CASE, YOU
% WANT PEOPLE TO TAKE THE PROPER
% PRECAUTIONS.%WHAT WERE THE PR
OPER PRECAUTIONS
% UNDER THE SCENARIO.
% >> WHAT IS YOUR OPINION AS
% FORMER LAW ENFORCEMENT OF THESE
% MILITARY-STYLE ASSAULT RIFLES IN
% THE HANDS OF CIVILIANS?
% >> THEY HAVE NO PLACE, NOT IN A
% DOMESTIC SETTING.
% THAT'S NOT EVEN IN -- AN
% ARGUMENT OR DEBATE.
% YOU -- HIGH CAPACITY, THE
% ABILITY FOR HUMAN DESTRUCTION ON
% THE BODY, I UNDERSTAND THE
% SECOND AMENDMENT.
% I SUPPORT THE SECOND AMENDMENT.
% I UNDERSTAND THAT SO MANY WAYS.
% AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE
% HOLD NEAR AND DEAR TO -- IT IS A
% CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT.
% BUT I -- I READ THE CONSTITUTION
% ALL THE TIME.
% AND I'VE YET TO SEE A
% CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO AN AC14.
% >> -- AK-47.
% >> AS A POLICE OFFICER, DO THEY
% SCARE YOU?
% >> YES, ESPECIALLY WHERE THE
% TRENDS ARE GOING RIGHT NOW.
% THE LAST THREE TO FOUR YEARS,
% MORE GUN PURCHASES, MORE PEOPLE
% WEARING -- POSSESSING THEM IN
% PUBLIC PLACES AND PUBLIC SPACES.
% AND HERE'S THE DOWNSIDE OF WHERE
% THIS IS GONNA GO.
% IF YOU ARE, BASED UPON SOME OF
% THE RECENT SUPREME RULINGS --
% SUPREME COURT RULINGS, WHERE
% YOU'RE MORE ABLE TO OPEN CARRY
% OR CONCEALED CARRY, THAT MEANS
% THE INTERACTION BETWEEN A POLICE
% OFFICER AND THE CITIZEN, THAT
% COULD CHANGE THE DYNAMIC OF WHAT
% TAKES PLACE.
% WE HAVE RELIED ON OUR ABILITY TO
% COMMUNICATE WITH CITIZENS.
% THE ABILITY TO BUILD A
% PREPOUR -- RAPPORT, BUILD TRUST,
% AND IF THE FIRST THING YOU'RE
% THINKING ABOUT IS IS THIS PERSON
% ARMED ALL THE TIME, THEN WHAT DO
% YOU DO?
% >> ON ANOTHER MATTER, THE ARREST
% OF THE SUSPECT IN THE HIGHLAND
% PARK SHOOTING WAS DESCRIBED AS
% WITHOUT INCIDENT.
% PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT KIND OF
% THE STARK DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
% THAT ARREST OF A SUSPECT IN A
% MASS MURDER, ESSENTIALLY, AND
% THE ARREST OF A YOUNG BLACK MAN
% IN AKRON, OHIO, WHO WAS GUNNED
% DOWN DURING A TRAFFIC STOP.
% >> UH-HUH.
% >> WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?
% >> I DO THINK HISTORICALLY, ASK
% CURRENTLY, WITH TODAY -- AND
% CURRENTLY WITH TODAY'S SOCIAL
% CONTEXT, AND WHAT
% AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN PARTICULAR
% BELIEVE, THERE'S A QUESTION IN
% TERMS OF YOU KNOW, HOW DO I
% RESPOND TO POLICE WHEN I'M ASKED
% TO STOP AT A TRAFFIC STOP OR
% WHEN I'M TOLD TO COMPLY.
% IT SHOULD BE EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER
% THE LAW.
% AND EVERYONE SHOULD BE TREATED
% THE SAME.
% I THINK THAT IS THE ISSUE.
% BUT HISTORICALLY, AND WITH
% TODAY'S SOCIAL CONTEXT, I
% PERSONALLY AND I HAVE RELATIVES,
% I HAVE FRIENDS -- THERE IS A BIT
% OF CONFUSION, A BIT OF FEAR THAT
% IF I COMPLY, WHAT WILL HAPPEN.
% IF I DON'T COMPLY, WHAT WILL
% HAPPEN.
% AND AGAIN, THAT IS A DIALOGUE
% THAT NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE,
% SERIOUSLY NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE
% BETWEEN THE POLICE AND MANY
% COMMUNITIES THAT THEY SERVE.
% >> ALL RIGHT.
% THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
% >> THANK YOU.
% >>> TURNING TO ELECTION NEWS,
% ABSENTEE BALLOT DROP BOXES USED
% ACROSS THE STATE DURING THE
% COVID-19 PANDEMIC ARE NOW
% ILLEGAL AFTER A WISCONSIN
% SUPREME COURT DECISION THAT WAS
% RELEASED TODAY.
% SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER
% ZAC SCHULTZ JOINS US WITH MORE
% FROM THE CAPITOL.
% HEY, ZACH.
% >> HELLO, FRED.
% THESE WERE WIDELY USED.
% DROP BOXES WEREN'T IN PART OF
% THE OLD STATE HISTORY AND THEY
% WEREN'T PART OF STATE LAW, WHICH
% IS WHAT CREATED THE LEGAL
% UNCERTAINTY OF WHAT HAPPENED TO
% THEM.
% CLERKS ARE AROUND THE STATE SAID
% THEY'RE NOT BARRED AND WE'RE
% GOING TO USE THEM.
% AND THERE WERE NOW LAWSUITS AT
% THAT TIME.
% AND SINCE THEM THERE HAVE BEEN
% LAWSUITS AND THE SUPREME COURT
% FINISHED THEIR 4-THERE A A
% DIS -- 4-3 DECISION, THEY SAY
% THAT BECAUSE OF SOME OF THE
% LANGUAGE IN STATE STATUTES
% DEALING WITH ABSENTEE BALLOTS,
% DROP BOXES ARE ILLEGAL IN
% WISCONSIN.%>> SO WHAT DO VOTE
RS DO NOW?
% >> WELL, I HAVE MY ABSENTEE
% BALLOT RIGHT HERE.
% WE'RE ABOUT A MONTH AWAY FROM
% THE AUGUST PRIMARY ELECTION.
% AND I COULD EITHER PUT THIS IN A
% PAIL BOX IN MY MAILBOX OR ONE OF
% THE OFFICIAL FEDERAL MAILBOXES
% THAT LOOKS LIKE A DROP BOX BUT
% IS NOT.
% THE BIG DISTINCT, ACCORDING TO
% WISCONSIN LAW.
% OR I COULD BRING IT TO THE
% MUNICIPAL CLERK WHERE I WOULD
% VOTE AND HAPPENED IT IN THERE,
% OR I CAN BRING TO IT THE POLL ON
% VOTING DAY.
% I CAN'T GIVE IT TO SOMEONE ELSE
% TO BRING IT IN.
% THAT'S NOW ILLEGAL.
% AND I ALSO CANNOT PUT IT IN THE
% DROP BOX.
% SO I HAVE TO THINK A LITTLE MORE
% WHERE I WANT TO PUT IT.
% AND FOR VOTERS WHO WAIT UNTIL
% MUCH CLOSER TO THE ELECTION,
% EITHER MAKE YOUR VOTE AND GET
% THEIR BALLOT AND RECEIVE IT.
% IF THEY DON'T TRUST THE FEDERAL
% MAIL IS GOING TO GET IT BACK
% WHICH IS A BIG QUESTION WITH THE
% SLOW MAIL RETURNS DURING THE
% PANDEMIC, OR IF THEY'RE NOT ABLE
% TO TRAVEL IN, HOW DO THEY MAKE
% THEIR VOTE COUNT PHYSICAL
% THEY'RE VOTING ABSENTEE?
% >> WHAT WAS THE REASON FOR
% BANNING THESE OR PROHIBITING
% THESE BOXES?
% >> THERE ISINGING IN IN STATE --
% THERE IS NOTHING SOME STATE
% LAW -- IN STATE LAW ABOUT DROP
% BOXES.%VOTE BE ANTE PUB -- VO
TING BY
% ABSENTEE.
% WHAT THE STATE ANNOUNCED IS
% BECAUSE THE LANGUAGE SAID IT HAS
% TO BE DELIVERED TO THE MUNICIPAL
% CLERK, THAT THEY MEANT
% PERSONALLY HANDED TO THEM.
% IT CAN'T BE PUT IN AN UNMANNED
% DROP BOX WHICH WAS WHAT DROP
% BOXES WOULD HAVE BEEN.
% >> SO THE DISSENTING LIBERAL
% JUSTICES HAD SOMETHING TO SAY
% ABOUT THIS.
% >> YEAH.
% THEY BELIEVED THIS IS JUST
% FURTHER ENCUMBERING VOTING%RI
GHTS IN WISCONSIN.
% THEY SAID IT WAS UNNECESSARY,
% THAT IT PLAYS INTO CONSPIRACY
% THEORIES BEING PUSHED BY
% CONSERVATIVES.%TRUMP SUED SAY
ING IT WAS DROP
% BOXES IN DANA, MILWAUKEE COUNTY,
% THAT WERE FILLED WITH FORT
% LAUDERDALE.%THERE'S NO BASIS
FOR THAT
% WHATSOEVER.
% SO SOME OF THE LIBERALS SAY THIS
% DOESN'T HELP WITH PEOPLE'S
% BELIEF IN THE SECURITY OF OUR
% ELECTIONS.
% >> WE LEAVE IT THERE.
% WE KNOW YOU HAVE SOME GOOD
% ONLINE REPORTING ON THIS.
% THANKS VERY MUCH.
% >> THANK YOU.
% >>> FOR MORE ON THIS STORY AND
% OTHER ELECTION-RELATED NEWS IN
% WISCONSIN, VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT
% WPTV.COM.
% -- PBSWISCONSIN.ORG AND CLICK
% ON THE "NEWS" TAB.
% LOOK FOR A SERIES OF U.S.
% CANDIDATE INTERVIEWS.
% I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
% HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.