CHECK.
APPRECIATE IT.
>> YOU'RE WELCOME.
>> IN MILWAUKEE, IS IT A NEW DAY
FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT THERE?
THERE IS A NEW CHIEF OF POLICE
IN MILWAUKEE AND NEW RULES.
IN THE LAST YEAR, THE CITY'S
POLICE AND FIRE COMMISSION
BANNED THE USE OF POLICE
CHOKE-HOLDS NO-KNOCK WARRANTS.
AND REQUIRED COMMUNITY ORIENTED
POLICING.
TAKE THE STATS ON NO-KNOCK
WARRANTS IN MILWAUKEE.
THEIR NUMBERS HAVE GONE FROM 72%
OF WARRANTS BEING EXECUTED IN
2019 TO JUST 2% LAST YEAR.
THAT'S A MEASURABLE DIFFERENCE.
THE CITY ALSO HAS A NEW CHAIR OF
THE POLICE AND FIRE COMMISSION.
HE'S MA MARQUETTE UNIVERSITY LAW
PROFESSOR ED FALLONE.
HE JOINS US NOW AND THANKS VERY
MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> ALWAYS HAPPY TO SEE YOU,
FREDERICA.
>> IN A RECENT INTERVIEW, YOU
ARE QUOTED AS SAYING THAT WE
HAVE INSTITUTED THE GUARDIAN
MODEL OF POLICING VERSUS THE OLD
WARRIOR MODEL.
HOW DO THESE MODELS DIFFER?
>> WELL, THIS POLICY COMES FROM
OUR POLICE CHIEF, JEFF NORMAN,
AND IT'S ABOUT COLLABORATION
WITH THE COMMUNITY, OUTREACH TO
THE COMMUNITY, AND IMPROVING
PUBLIC SAFETY BY FORMING
PARTNERSHIPS WITH THE COMMUNITY.
AND SO THAT VIEWS POLICE
OFFICERS AS GUARDIANS OF THE
COMMUNITY.
AND I THINK WE HAVE A HISTORY,
RECENT HISTORY IN THIS COUNTRY
OF A DIFFERENT PHILOSOPHY, AND
THAT'S THE WARRIOR MENTALITY,
THAT THE POLICE ARE OUT THERE TO
CONFRONT THE BAD GUYS, AND THAT
THE PUBLIC SOMETIMES GETS CAUGHT
IN THE INTERACTIONS.
AND THAT SOMETIMES THE POLICE
HAVE VIEWED THE PUBLIC WITH
SUSPICION.
SO IT'S A HUGE CONTRAST, AND WE
THINK WE ARE MOVING FORWARD IN
THE RIGHT DIRECTION UNDER POLICE
CHIEF NORMAN.
>> SO WE'VE SHOWN THE NUMBER OF
NO-KNOCK WARRANTS BEING REDUCED
TO JUST 2% IN 2021.
WHAT HAVE BEEN THE EFFECTS OF
THAT ON THE ABILITY TO CAPTURE
SUSPECTS AND SOLVE CRIME IN THE
CITY?
>> WELL, WE'VE HAD A CONCERTED
EFFORT TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF
NO-KNOCK WARRANTS, AND AS YOU
INDICATED WITH YOUR STATISTICS,
THE EXCEPTION HAD BECOME THE
RULE.
70% OF THE WARRANTS SERVED HAVE
BEEN NO-KNOCK.
NO-KNOCKS WERE INTENDED TO BE
THE EXCEPTION AND TO BE USED IN
EXTREME CIRCUMSTANCES TO RECOVER
EVIDENCE OF CRIME OR TO OBTAIN A
SUSPECT WHEN THERE WAS NO OTHER
WAY TO DO SO.
AND SO UNDER CHIEF NORMAN, WE
HAVE A YEAR-LONG PROCESS OF
EXAMINING THE PROCEDURES, AND
SUCCESSIVE REDUCTION EVERY YEAR
OF THE NUMBER OF NO-KNOCK
WARRANTS EXECUTED IN MILWAUKEE
UNTIL THE CHIEF GOT IT DOWN TO
JUST SIX IN THE YEAR 2021.
AND AT THAT STAGE, THE FIRE AND
POLICE COMMISSION INTERACTED
WITH THE POLICE AND SAID, WE
WANT FACTS, WHAT WERE THE
SCENARIOS WHERE THESE SIX WERE
EXECUTED, AND IS IT POSSIBLE TO
GET FROM SIX TO ZERO?
AND AFTER THAT YEAR-LONG
PROCESS, THE COMMISSION DECIDED,
YES, WE WOULD BAN THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT IN MILWAUKEE FROM
USING NO-KNOCKS.
WHEN YOU'RE DOWN TO THAT SMALL A
LEVEL, LESS THAN 2% OF ALL
WARRANTS EXECUTED, AT THAT
STAGE, THE BAN IS NOT GOING TO
HAVE ANY FURTHER IMPACT ON
POLICING.
>> WHAT ABOUT OFFICER SAFETY,
BECAUSE I KNOW THE POLICE UNION
WORRIES NOW THAT ITS OFFICERS
CAN'T SURPRISE SUSPECTS AND ARE
PUT IN GREATER DANGER.
>> WELL, WE'RE VERY CONCERNED
ABOUT OFFICER SAFETY.
AND REALLY, IN THIS ENTIRE
PROCESS OF EXAMINING NO-KNOCK
WARRANTS, IT WAS A MATTER OF
WEIGHING RISK TO THE SAFETY OF
OFFICERS VERSUS RISK TO THE
PUBLIC.
AND THERE'S NO WAY TO GET TO
ZERO RISK ON EITHER SIDE OF THAT
EQUATION.
AND I THINK WHAT YOUR VIEWERS
SHOULD UNDERSTAND IS THAT IN
MILWAUKEE, WE HAVE HIGH-DENSITY
RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS, HIGH
MULTI-FAMILY SITUATIONS INSIDE
EVEN DETACHED HOMES, WE HAVE
RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES WITH
MULTIPLE UNITS IN THEM, AND SO
ANY TIME THERE'S A SERVING OF A
NO-KNOCK WARRANT, THERE'S A LOT
OF PEOPLE NEARBY, A LOT OF
INNOCENT PEOPLE, NEXT DOOR
NEIGHBORS OR EVEN IN THE SAME
BUILDING.
AND SO WE'RE TRYING TO REDUCE
THE RISK TO OFFICERS, BUT WE'RE
ALSO TRYING TO REDUCE THE RISK
TO OTHER RESIDENTS NEARBY, IF
VIOLENCE BREAKS OUT.
AND THERE'S NO WAY TO GET TO
ZERO ON EITHER EQUATION, AND SO
WE FELT ULTIMATELY THAT THE
NO-KNOCKS CREATED AN
UNACCEPTABLE LEVEL OF RISK.
>> THE STATE SENATE THIS WEEK
PASSED A MEASURE TO PROHIBIT
CITIES FROM BANNING NO-KNOCK
WARRANTS.
WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?
>> WELL, I THINK IT'S A MISTAKE
TO TRY AND SET POLICING POLICY
FROM MADISON FOR THE ENTIRE
STATE, AND TO HAVE
REPRESENTATIVES OF SMALLER
COMMUNITIES IN OUR STATE TRY TO
DICTATE THE POLICING STRATEGIES
AND TACTICS IN OUR LARGER URBAN
AREAS.
I WANT TO RE-EMPHASIZE THAT THE
EFFORT TO REDUCE THE INCIDENCE
OF NO-KNOCK WARRANTS IN
MILWAUKEE BEGAN WITH OUR POLICE
CHIEF, WHO IS VERY CONCERNED
ABOUT REBUILDING COMMUNITY
TRUST, REBUILDING COMMUNITY
RELATIONSHIPS AFTER SEVERAL
YEARS, WHERE QUITE FRANKLY
WITNESSES STOPPED COOPERATING
WITH THE POLICE.
AND INFORMANTS STOPPED CALLING
THE POLICE.
AND IT BECAME MORE DIFFICULT TO
CLOSE OPEN CASES.
AND STEP ONE IN CHANGING THAT IS
REBUILDING TRUST.
AND SO REALLY, THIS IS PART OF
THAT PHILOSOPHY OF
RE-ESTABLISHING A CLOSER
COLLABORATIVE RELATIONSHIP
BETWEEN RESIDENTS AND THE POLICE
AND REDUCING CRIME.
IT WORKS FOR OUR CITY, AND IT'S,
I THINK, BETTER TO LEAVE THIS TO
LOCAL CONTROL.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE LEAVE IT THERE, ED FALLONE,
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR TALKING
WITH US ABOUT THIS.