PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL
PRODUCTION.
>> TEMPERATURES PLUNGE OUTSIDE,
BUT THINGS HEAT UP AT THE STATE
CAPITOL THIS WEEK, AS
REPUBLICANS WORK TO PASS A COVID
RELIEF BILL THAT GOVERNOR TONY
EVERS WILL SIGN, EVEN AS THEY'RE
FORCED TO PUNT ON STRIKING DOWN
A STATEWIDE MASK MANDATE.
>> I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," THE
POLITICAL BATTLE OVER THE STATE
COVID RELIEF BILL AND MASK
MANDATE.
ROBIN VOS IS HERE AS IS GORDON
HINTZ.
ANALYSIS OF THE POLITICAL
STANDOFFS IN WASHINGTON D.C.
AND WE GO TO KESHENA TO SEE HOW
VACCINATIONS ARE GOING FOR THE
MENOMINEE NATION.
IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR JANUARY
29.
>> FUNDING FOR SHOW SHE "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.
>> WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE
REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE'S MOVE TO
OVERTURN THE MASK MANDATE?
WELL, IT'S A LITTLE MESSY.
THE STATE SENATE THIS WEEK VOTED
TO END THE MASK ORDER BUT
DISCOVERED THAT WOULD RESULT IN
WISCONSIN LOSING NEARLY $50
MILLION A MILLION IN FOODSHARE
BENEFITS COMING FROM THE FEDS
FOR STATES THAT ENACT EMERGENCY
SAFETY ORDERS.
SO THEY TACKED AN AMENDMENT ON
THE RELIEF BILL THAT WOULD ALLOW
THE GOVERNOR TO DECLARE AN
EMERGENCY JUST FOR THE PURPOSE
OF GETTING THE FUNDING.
WHEN THE ASSEMBLY WAS SET TO
TAKE THIS UP, SPEAKER ROBIN VOS
PULLED BACK ON A VOTE SEEKING
TIME TO STUDY THE MATTER.
HE JOINS US NOW TO UNTANGLE ALL
OF THIS AND THANKS VERY MUCH FOR
BEING HERE.
>> GOOD EVENING.
>> SO WHY NOT VOTE ON THE
RESOLUTION IF THE SENATE
AMENDMENT FIXES THE FEDERAL
FUNDING PROBLEM?
>> WE SURE HOPE IT FIXES IT BUT
WE'RE NOT CERTAIN IT DOES AND
WHEN SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAPPENS
RIGHT BEFORE WE'RE GOING TO VOTE
ON A BILL, I DON'T WANT TO RUSH
SOMETHING AND DO SOMETHING THAT
WOULD BE A MISTAKE.
WE HAVE THE SUPPORT TO BE ABLE
TO SAY THAT THE GOVERNOR DOES
NOT HAVE UNILATERAL POWER.
HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH
US FOR MONTHS TO COME UP WITH
OTHER SOLUTIONS THAT COULD WORK.
WE KNOW AT THE END OF THE DAY
LOCAL PUBLIC HEALTH DEPARTMENTS
HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO WHAT THEY
I WILL.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT MASKS.
IT IS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE
GOVERNOR GETS TO FOLLOW THE LAW.
IT IS CRYSTAL CLEAR IN THE
STATUTES THAT YOU ONLY GET THE
CHANCE TO HAVE ONE EMERGENCY AND
THEN AFTER THAT IT HAS TO BE
REVIEWED BY THE LEGISLATURE.
SO I THINK THAT WE DON'T WANT TO
SACRIFICE THE $50 MILLION A
MONTH IN FAD -- FOODSHARE.
ASSUMING THAT'S THE ONLY
RAMIFICATION AND WE CAN FIX IT,
WE'LL MOVE AHEAD.
>> EIGHT A AT A TIME WHEN WE'RE BEING
TOLD TO DOUBLE MASK AND
BUSINESSES OBJECT TO ENDING THE
MASK ORDER, PEOPLE WANT TO
UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WANT TO GET
RID OF IT AT THIS TIME.
YOU SAY IT'S NOT ABOUT MASKS,
BUT IT IS ABOUT MASKS.
>> NOT FOR ME.
WHEN I LOOK AT WHAT HAS BEEN
HAPPENING IN OUR STATE, WHEN I
GO TO MASS, HARDWARE STORE OR
RESTAURANT, THE VAST MAJORITY OF
PEOPLE ARE WEARING A MASK.
IT'S NOT BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR
ORDERED IT BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN
NO ENFORCEMENT WHATSOEVER.
IT'S PEOPLE KNOW IT'S THE RIGHT
THING TO DO.
IT'S WHY I DID THAT COMMERCIAL
WITH MARK POCAN THAT SOME HAVE
GIVEN ME DERYFTION DERISION FOR BECAUSE I
DO SUPPORT WEARING MASKS.
THAT'S WHY IN THE ASSEMBLY WE'RE
EXEMPTED FROM WEARING A MASK.
YOU'LL SEE I THINK OF THE
MEMBERS ALL BUT A COUPLE WEAR A
MASK BECAUSE IT'S THE RIGHT
THING TO DO IN A LARGE GROUP.
SO I THINK THIS IS MUCH ADO
ABOUT DEMOCRATS TRYING TO MAKE
IT ABOUT MASKS, BUT THE REALITY
IS THIS IS ABOUT GOVERNOR EVERS
ISSUING AN ILLEGAL ORDER THAT
SHOULD HAVE BEEN STRUCK DOWN BY
THE COURTS.
THEY HAVEN'T ACTED YET.
>> LET'S LOOK AT THAT PSA THAT
YOU CUT WITH DEMOCRATIC
CONGRESSMAN MARK POCAN TELLING
PEOPLE TO WEAR A MASK.
HE SAYS IF YOUR OBJECTION IS
OVERREACH FROM THE GOVERNOR,
THEN THE LEGISLATURE SHOULD PASS
ITS ON MASK MANDATE.
WHY NOT PASS YOUR OWN?
>> BECAUSE, AGAIN, THERE'S NO
ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM.
>> SO POCAN ALSO SAYS IF THIS IS
SIMPLY ABOUT APPEALING TO
SCIENCE DENIERS FOR POLITICAL
PURPOSES, WE CANNOT AFFORD THIS
KIND OF RAW PARTISANSHIP.
HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?
>> WELL, IT'S NOT ABOUT THAT
BECAUSE AGAIN IT'S NOT ABOUT
MASKS.
YOU WILL SEE THAT ONCE WE PASS
THE REPEAL OF THE GOVERNOR'S
EMERGENCY AUTHORITY, PEOPLE
AROUND WISCONSIN ARE STILL GOING
TO WEAR MASKS BECAUSE THEY WANT
TO PROTECT THEIR KIDS OR THEIR
GRANDPARENTS.
THAT'S EXACTLY WHY I WEAR ONE.
SO I THINK THE DEMOCRATS AGAIN
TRYING TO OBFUSCATE AND DIRECT
AWAY FROM THE REAL ISSUE, THAT
GOVERNOR EVERS HAS AN INABILITY
TO WORK WITH OTHERS TO BE ABLE
TO GET THIS DONE.
IT'S ALL KIND OF A ONE SIZE FITS
ALL WRITTEN WHEN HE'S AT THE
MANSION BY HIMSELF INSTEAD OF
WORKING WITH THE LEGISLATURE TO
GET A DEAL DONE.
AT THE END OF THE DAY WE ARE
BEYOND THAT.
PUBLIC PRESSURE IS WHY PEOPLE
ARE WEARING A MASK.
>> THE LATEST VERSION OF THE
COVID RELIEF BILL GIVES THE
BUDGET COMMITTEE REVIEW OVER
FEDERAL DOLLARS TO FIGHT
CORONAVIRUS.
IS IT BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE HOW
GOVERNOR EVERS HAS MANAGED THAT
MONEY?
>> SOMEWHAT.
I THINK THAT'S TRUE.
BUT IT'S REALLY JUST SOMETHING
THAT'S NOT ALL THAT ABNORMAL.
WHEN JIM DOYLE WAS IN OFFICE AND
MARK POCAN WAS IN OFFICE.
THEY GOT A BUNCH OF MONEY UNDER
THE AMERICAN RECOVERY AND REVIN RECOVERY AND
REINVESTMENT ACT.
THEY SIGNED LEGISLATION SAYING
THEY WOULD HAVE LEGISLATIVE
OVERSIGHT.
IT SHOULD MEAN THAT THE
LEGISLATURE, THE ONES WHO ARE
SUPPOSED TO APPROPRIATE MONEY,
HAVE THE ABILITY TO OVERSEE IT
JUST LIKE WE DO WITH EVERY OTHER
DOLLAR THAT COMES INTO THE
TREASURY.
>> THAT MIGHT BE ONE OF THOSE
SO-CALLED POISON PILLS THAT
COULD RESULT IN AN EVERS' VETO
OF THIS COVID RELIEF PACKAGE.
THEN WHAT?
>> I SURE HOPE IT DIDN'T.
IF JIM DOYLE AND MARK POCAN CAN
STRIKE A DEAL WHEN DEMOCRATS ARE
IN CHARGE, I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU
WOULDN'T WANT IT WHEN YOU HAVE
DIVIDED GOVERNMENT.
IT'S A GOOD BILL.
IT'S GOT LOTS OF IDEAS, MONEY
FOR THE PANDEMIC, ABILITY FOR US
TO HAVE AN ESSENTIAL VISITOR
PROGRAM.
WE WORK ON VACCINATIONS.
THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD THINGS IN
THERE.
SO IT WOULD BE A REAL
DISAPPOINTMENT IF GOVERNOR EVERS
CHOSE TO PLAY POLITICS.
>> WELL HE WE'LL SEEVMENT SEE.
>> THE DEMOCRATS DECRIED
STRIKING DOWN THE MASK MANDATE
IN THE FIRST PLACE, BUT THEN
THAT IT WOULD TAKE FOOD FROM
PEOPLE IN NEED, THAT RAISED THE
ROOF.
THE ASSEMBLY SPEAKER CALLED OFF
THE VOTE TO STUDY HOW TO MAKE IT
WORK WITHOUT LOSING THAT MONEY.
TONIGHT WE ARE JOINED BY THE
OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE, WITH
DEMOCRATIC LEADER THE ASSEMBLY,
GMENT
GORDON HINTZ.
WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE TO THE
ORDER ALMOST BEING TURNED OVER?
>> THE IDEA THE FIRST ACT TO
PASS THE SENATE AND ASSEMBLY WAS
SOMETHING THAT MADE OUR COVID
PROBLEM WORST AT THE MOST
CRITICAL TIME WHERE WE'RE OVER
80% IN TERMS OF ICU BEDS FILLED,
HOSPITALIZATION RATE OVER 80%
AND WHERE WE KNOW THE VACCINE IS
GOING TO TAKE A WHILE TO MAKE A
DIFFERENCE, THE IDEA THAT WE'RE
GOING TO GO AGAINST THE WISHES
OF EVERY MAJOR HEALTH
ORGANIZATION IN THE STATE IS
CONTRARY TO WHAT OUR ROLE IN
GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE.
AND SO HAVING IT SCHEDULED AS
THE FIRST ACT WAS DISAPPOINTING.
BUT I CAN TELL YOU CERTAINLY
THERE ARE UNINTENDED
CONSEQUENCES, SUCH AS THE LOSS
OF FOODSHARE DOLLARS.
BUT THE REALITY IS THOUSANDS OF
WISCONSINITES CONTACTED US.
GROUPS WERE REGISTERING AGAINST.
I THINK THERE WASN'T 100%
SUPPORT IN THAT REPUBLICAN
CAUCUS OVER WHETHER THIS WAS A
GOOD IDEA OR NOT.
WE NEED TO KEEP THE PRESSURE ON
AND HOPEFULLY GET THEM TO NOT
REPEAL THE MANDATE.
>> SO WHAT'S YOUR POSITION ON
THE SENATE AMENDMENT THAT WOULD
PREVENT THE LOSS OF FEDERAL
FUNDS BY ALLOWING THE GOVERNOR
TO DECLARE AN EMERGENCY JUST FOR
THE PURPOSE OF GETTING THAT
FEDERAL MONEY WITHOUT THE MASK
PART OF THE ORDER?
>> WELL, LOOK.
IF THEY ARE REALLY GOING TO GO
THROUGH WITH DOING SOMETHING
THAT IS GOING TO INFECT MORE
PEOPLE, PROBABLY RESULT IN MORE
LIVES LOST IN WISCONSIN, MAKE
OUR RECOVERY SLOWER, I'M HOPEFUL
THAT WE CAN AT LEAST FIND A WAY
TO KEEP THE ADDITIONAL FUNDING
THAT WE GET FROM THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT IN FOODSHARE.
THAT'S A SECONDARY WORRY TO THE
FACT THAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY GOING
TO DO SOMETHING AGAIN THAT MAKES
COVID WORSE IN OUR STATE.
>> BUT SPEAKER VOS REGARDS, HE
SAYS, WEARING A MASK AS A SOCIAL
CONTRACT THAT SHOULD NOT IN FACT
BE A MANDATE.
HE EVEN CUT THAT PUBLIC SERVICE
ANNOUNCEMENT ENCOURAGING IT.
WHAT ABOUT THE IDEA OF SIMPLY
APPEALING TO PEOPLE'S KIND OF
CIVIC DUTY TO WEAR A MASK AS
OPPOSED TO AN ORDER?
>> WELL, I THINK THE SUCCESS OF
IT IS GOING TO BE GETTING PEOPLE
TO UNDERSTAND THAT WEARING A
MASK IS ABOUT LOOKING OUT FOR
OTHERS.
IT'S ABOUT LOOKING OUT FOR EACH
OTHER.
AND WE REALLY NEED THAT
COLLECTIVE RALLY.
THAT WAS CERTAINLY A LOST
OPPORTUNITY WITH OUR PRESIDENT
SENDING THE OPPOSITE MESSAGE TO
PEOPLE.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, MASK
MANDATES WORK.
THERE'S ENOUGH EVIDENCE BETWEEN
COUNTIES THAT HAVE DONE IT AND
COUNTIES THAT HAVEN'T.
39 OTHER STATES IN THE COUNTRY
HAVE A MASK MANDATE, INCLUDING
REPUBLICAN STATES.
SO THEY DO IT BECAUSE IT WORKS.
THIS IS A POLITICAL OR
IDEOLOGICAL STANCE THAT IS
CONTRARY TO THE HEALTH OR
WELL-BEING OF OUR STATE.
>> AS TO OTHER CHANGES TO THE
COVID RELIEF BILL THAT THE
GOVERNOR HAD AGREED ON BEFORE
ASSEMBLY REVISIONS, HOW DO YOU
THINK THE GOVERNOR WOULD REGARD
THE PART OF IT THAT REQUIRES A
LEGISLATIVE REVIEW OF ANY
FEDERAL CORONAVIRUS FUNDING?
>> I THINK HE'LL VETO IT
IMMEDIATELY.
IT'S NONSTARTER.
SINCE NEEFERS GOVERNOR EVERS WAS
ELECTED, THE SPEAKER AND THE
LEGISLATURE SEEM TO WANT TO BE
GOVERNOR, TOOK AWAY HIS POWER,
SUED HIM.
THERE IS AN EXECUTIVE BRANCH AND
THEY ARE CHARGED WITH THIS EXACT
TASK OF MANAGING SOMETHING LIKE
THE PANDEMIC.
THE IDEA THAT WE WOULD GIVE
PEOPLE THAT CAN'T EVEN CATCH $50
MILLION MONTHLY LOSS IN
FOODSHARE OR $25 MILLION LOSS BY
DELAYING UNEMPLOYMENT ONE WEEK
REPEAL IN CHARGE OF MANAGING
FEDERAL AID IS RIDICULOUS.
THIS IS THESE GUYS TRYING TO
MICROMANAGE AND CONTINUE TO TRY
TO DO GOVERNOR EVERS' JOB FOR
HIM AND THAT'S A NONSTARTER.
>> SO IT GETS A VETO IN YOUR
EXPECTATION FROM THE GOVERNOR.
WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE THE STATE
THEN WITH ANY KIND OF COVID
RELIEF LEGISLATION?
>> NOWHERE.
I MEAN, AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
THE DECISION MADE BY THE
ASSEMBLY THE OTHER DAY WAS
ESSENTIALLY TO KEEP DOING
NOTHING.
THEY PASSED SOMETHING THAT THEY
KNEW WAS GOING TO DELAY OR
DISRUPT THE AID THAT DEMOCRATS
HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR SINCE LAST
SUMMER.
IT'S BEEN OVER 290 DAYS NOW
SINCE WE'VE ACTED.
AND THE DECISION THE OTHER DAY
WAS TO DELAY.
BETWEEN THAT AND THE MASK
MANDATE, IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THAT
OUR HEALTH, WELL-BEING, ECONOMIC
HEALTH, IN-PERSON SCHOOL FOR OUR
KIDS IS SIMPLY NOT A PRIORITY
RIGHT NOW FOR REPUBLICANS.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE LEAVE IT THERE.
REPRESENTATIVE GORDON HINTZ,
THANKS JOIFNING US.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>> TO THE NATIONAL CAPITOL WHERE
ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT WERE
DELIVERED FRIDAY NIGHT.
FIVE REPUBLICANS JOINED
DEMOCRATS IN A VOTE THAT
REJECTED THE IDEA THAT PRESIDENT
TRUMP'S IMPEACHMENT WAS
UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
U.S. SENATOR RON JOHNSON WAS NOT
AMONG THEM.
>> WILL A TRIAL OF A FORMER
PRESIDENT, A PRIVATE CITIZEN,
WILL IT HEAL, WILL IT UNIFY?
I THINK THE ANSWER IS CLEARLY IT
WILL NOT.
>> WE TAKE UP THE IMPEACHMENT
EFFORTS IN THE SENATE AS WELL AS
THE MOUNTING POWER STRUGGLES
THERE WITH MICHAEL WAGNER,
PROFESSOR OF JOURNALISM AT
UW-MADISON ADD EXPERT ON
AMERICAN POLITICS AND POLITICAL
BEHAVIOR.
THE SENATE WILL NOT VOTE TO
CONVICT PRESIDENT TRUMP.
CAN MOST REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS
SIMPLY PUT WHAT HAPPENED JANUARY
6 IN THE REAR VIEW, DO YOU
THINK?
>> I THINK THAT'S THEIR GOAL AND
I THINK THAT'S THEIR HOPE.
WHETHER VOTERS CONTINUE TO HAVE
A LONG MEMORY ABOUT THE COUP
ATTEMPT, WHICH IS WHAT THE
UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS IS NOW
CALLING IT, REMAINS TO BE SEEN.
SO THERE MAY BE A PRICE TO PAY
WITH VOTERS, BUT IT DOES NOT
APPEAR THAT THERE ARE ENOUGH
REPUBLICANS TO CONVICT THE
PRESIDENT IN THE SENATE.
>> HOW FORMIDABLE IS DONALD
TRUMP POLITICALLY, EVEN AFTER
HIS SUPPORTERS VIOLENTLY
ATTACKED THE CAPITOL?
>> WELL, HE DOES NOT SEEM TO
HAVE THE EXACT SAME PULL THAT HE
HAD ON THE PARTY WHILE HE WAS
PRESIDENT AND LONGER HE IS OUT
OF THE LIMELIGHT AND ES PECIAL
LIVE THE LONGER THAT HE'S OFF OF
SOCIAL IMMEDIATE YARKS THE HARD
-- IMMEDIATE YARKS THE MEDIA, THE HARDER IT IS FOR
HIM TO GAIN A FOOTHOLD.
THERE ARE PLENTY OF REPUBLICANS
WHO DON'T WANT TO CROSS HIM
BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO UPSET
THE CORE BASE OF SUPPORTERS THAT
THE FORMER PRESIDENT CONTINUES
TO CARRY WITH HIM.
SO IT'S AN OPEN QUESTION.
I WOULD SAY THE -- WOULDN'T SAY THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY IS IN A CIVIL
WAR, BUT IN A STRUGGLE FOR THEIR
FUTURE.
>> AS TO CON CON CONSPIRACY THEORIES
LIESK QANON, ARE THEY QUIETED
NOW OR JUST REGROUPING, DIEWFNG?
>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
OFTENTIMES WHEN A CONSPIRACY
GROUP HAS THE THING THEY SAID
WAS GOING TO HAPPEN FAIL, OFTEN
YOU WOULD THINK, WELL, THAT'S
GOT TO BE THE END OF THE
CONSPIRACY.
BUT USUALLY THE CONSPIREORS FIND
A WAY TO BELIEVE THERE'S SOME
OTHER REASON FOR WHY THE THING
THEY PREDICTED DIDN'T HAPPEN AND
SOMETIMES REDOUBLE THEIR EFFORTS
TO CONTINUE THE BEHAVIORS THEY
WERE ENBANDAGED IN BEFORE.
SO THEY'RE REGROUPING AND
THEY'RE CERTAINLY IN DISARRAY,
BUT WE SHOULDN'T BE CONFIDENT
THAT IT'S OVER.
>> ALARMINGLY, THE FBI IS NOW
WARNING ABOUT THE CONTINUING
THREAT OF DOMESTIC TERROR
GROUPS.
HAS ALL OF THIS BEEN BUBBLING
UNDER THE SURFACE UNTIL IT JUST
BLEW INTO THE OPEN?
>> WELL, IT'S BEEN BUBBLING
UNDER THE SURFACE FOR A VERY
LONG TIME AND IT'S BEEN
EXPLODING OVER THE SURFACE FOR
THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS IN A LOT
OF RESPECTS.
AND SO I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WAS
SURPRISING THAT IT HAPPENED.
I THINK THAT PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE
BEEN CAUGHT OFF GUARD THAT IT
WAS SO EASY TO STORM THE CAPITOL
ON THE DAY THAT THE HOUSE AND
THE SENATE WERE CONVENING TO
CERTIFY THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE
VOTES.
AND IT'S STRIKING HOW IN DANGER
MANY OF OUR LEADERS, INCLUDING
THE VICE PRESIDENT AND SPEAKER
OF THE HOUSE, WERE IN.
THAT'S ALL DEEPLY DISTRESSING.
AND THESE CONVERSATIONS AREN'T
GOING TO BE GOING AWAY.
PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS FIND A
PLATFORM ON WHICH TO HAVE THESE,
ALTHOUGH DEPLATFORMING DOES MAKE
IT HARDER FOR THEM TO ORGANIZE.
>> HOW INSIDIOUS IS THE
CONTINUING BELIEF ON THE PART OF
SOME THAT THERE WAS WIDESPREAD
ELECTION FRAUD?
>> IT IS AN ABSOLUTE STAB IN THE
HEART OF A DEMOCRACY TO CONTINUE
TO MAKE THESE FALSE ALLEGATIONS.
IT'S A DECENTRALIZED ELECTION,
WHICH MAKES IT HARD TO ENGAGE IN
FRAUD WHEN SO MANY LOCALITIES
ARE IN CHARGE OF THE BALLOT
PRINTING AND COUNTING.
THERE WAS A COUNTING AND
RECOUNT.
THERE WERE MORE THAN 60
LAWSUITS, ALL OF WHICH TOLD US
THAT JOE BIDEN WON THE ELECTION
IN A FREE AND FAIR WAY.
ANYBODY WHO CAN'T SAY THAT IS
NOT INTERESTED IN THE PRACTICE
OF DEMOCRACY, BUT INTERESTED IN
THEIR OWN POWERS FOR THEIR OWN
REASONS.
>> JUST BRIEFLY, IS PRESIDENT
BIDEN'S CALL FOR UNITY IN THE
MIDST OF ALL OF THIS NAIVE?
>> IT DEPENDS WHAT WE MEAN BY
UNITY.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO HOLD HANDS
AND SING A SONG OF PEACE.
BUT IF WE CAN COME AROUND SIMPLE
FACTS, ELECTIONS MATTER, IF YOU
LOSE, YOU TRY AGAIN THE NEXT
TIME, NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT THE
RESULT AND PRETEND THAT IT
WASN'T REEFL, REAL, THEN THERE COULD BE
SOME HEALING.
>> ALL RIGHT.
MICHAEL WAGNER, THANKS FOR
JOINING US.
>> YOU BET.
>> NOW TO COVID NEWS AND TO
KESHENA, WHERE THE MENOMINEE
NATION IN THE MIDST OF A
VACCINATION PROGRAM.
ONE TRIBE SWITCHED TO THE
FEDERAL INDIAN SERVICE.
OTHERS INCLUDING THE MENOMINEE
CONTINUED TO WORK WITH STATE
GOVERNMENT FOR VACCINE
ALLOCATION.
WE CHECK IN NOW WITH THE TRIBAL
PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICER, DR. AMY
SLAGLE.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.
>> THANK YOU.
>> HOW MANY VACCINATIONS DO YOU
NEED TO GI AND HOW MANY BE GIVEN
TO DATE?
>> WE PLAN TO GIVE AROUND 9,000
IF WE MEET OUR GOALS.
AND SO FAR WE'VE GIVEN A LITTLE
OVER 700.
>> WOW.
SO --
>> AS OF THIS MORNING.
>> WE KNOW THAT THE STATE HEALTH
DEPARTMENT REPORTS HAVING
TROUBLE GETTING ENOUGH VACCINE.
WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH
AVAILABILITY FOR YOU?
>> WELL, IT'S BEEN -- I WOULD
CALL IT -- THE BEST WAY TO
DESCRIBE IT IS VARIABLE.
WE HAVE GOTTEN AS MANY AS 200
VACCINE IN A WEEK AND WE HAVE
HAD AS LITTLE AS ONE VIAL IN A
WEEK, WHICH WAS LAST WEEK, TEN
DOSES.
SO IT'S BEEN A LITTLE BIT ALL
OVER THE MAP.
BUT IN GENERAL WHAT WE'RE
EXPECTING NOW IS TO GET 200 TO
300 A WEEK, INCLUDING OUR SECOND
DOSES.
SO IT'S BEEN A LITTLE
ANXIETY-PROVOKING BECAUSE WE
DON'T KNOW WHICH DAY IT'S COMING
AND HOW MUCH WE'RE GETTING UNTIL
THE LAST MINUTE, MAKING IT VERY
DIFFICULT TO SCHEDULE PEOPLE
AHEAD OF TIME.
>> YEAH.
ABSOLUTELY.
BUT PRESUMABLY, YOU, LIKE
OTHERS, WOULD LIKE TO SEE JUST A
LOT MORE OF IT COMING YOUR WAY.
>> WE SURE WOULD.
WE WOULD LIKE TO GET OUR VERY
HIGH-RISK POPULATION VACCINATED
AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.
WE HAVE SOME ADVANTAGES.
THE STATE HAS ALLOWED US SOME
LEEWAY WITH SOVEREIGNTY ISSUES.
SO WE ARE A LITTLE AHEAD OF
PHASE 1B COMPARED TO OTHER
AREAS.
WE'RE VACCINATING 70 AND OLDER
RIGHT NOW AND WE ARE WELL INTO
OUR ESSENTIAL WORKERS.
SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE 710 PLUS
VACCINES IN WITH ALREADY ALL OUR
HEALTH CARE DONE, FIRST
RESPONDERS AND MANY ELDERS.
BUT WE'VE GOT A LARGE GROUP OF
PEOPLE 40 TO 65 YEARS OLD WITH
MULTIPLE HEALTH PROBLEMS THAT
ARE QUITE VULNERABLE AND AT RISK
FOR COVID AND WE'D LIKE TO GET
THEM VACCINATED AS SOON AS
POSSIBLE.
>> DID YOU HAVE TO OVERCOME
MISTRUST OF THE VACCINE?
>> THERE ARE ISSUES PARTICULAR
TO THE MENOMINEE TRIBE THAT DO
BRING MISTRUST INTO THE
EQUATION.
IT MAY BE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT
WE'RE SEEING NATIONALLY.
IT HAS TO DO WITH HISTORICAL
PROBLEMS WITH SMALLPOX AND
BROKEN TREATIES AND FAILURES OF
THE GOVERNMENT TO COME THROUGH
FOR NATIVE AMERICANS AND OTHER
PUBLIC HEALTH CALAMITIES.
SO THE POLITICAL ISSUES ARE NOT
REALLY PART OF OUR PROBLEM.
IT'S CONVINCING PEOPLE THAT THE
GOVERNMENT REALLY DOES MEAN TO
DELIVER THE GOOD THING AND THE
RIGHT THING AND THE LIFE-SAVING
THING HERE.
SO THE HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE IS
REALLY IMPORTANT HERE.
>> YEAH.
AND VERY REAL.
SO I KNOW THAT YOU JUST SPOKE TO
THE FACT THAT YOU HAD A
HIGH-RISK POPULATION EVEN AMONG
THE YOUNGER AGE GROUPS.
HOW HAS COVID-19 IMPACTED THE
COMMUNITY WHERE YOU PRACTICE?
>> WELL, WE'VE HAD ABOUT 30
DEATHS TOTAL.
HALF OF THOSE ARE MENOMINEES ON
THE RESERVATION.
HALF LIVE OFF THE RESERVATION
EITHER IN CONTIGUOUS AREAS OR A
FEW REMOTELY IN THE STATE.
WE'VE HAD 950 COVID CASES, WHICH
DOESN'T SOUND A LOT COMPARED TO
MENOMINEE OR MADISON, BUT WHEN
YOU LOOK AT THAT ON A PER CAPITA
BASIS, MENOMINEE HAS HAD THE
GREATEST CASE BURDEN PER CAPITA
UP UNTIL A FEW WEEKS AGO AND WE
HAD THAT SPOT FOR MANY MONTHS.
SO PER CAPITA, WE'VE HAD A VERY
HIGH BURDEN OF COVID AND WE'VE
HAD PLENTY OF DEATHS.
>> ARE PEOPLE HEEDING SAFETY
GUIDANCE AROUND DISTANCING AND
MASKING?
>> PUBLICLY AND IN WORKPLACES,
IT'S VERY GOOD.
I THINK PEOPLE TAKE THE
RECOMMENDATIONS SERIOUSLY.
THE TRIBE HAS HAD EMERGENCY
ORDERS IN PLACE WHICH
FORTUNATELY WE'RE ABLE TO
SUPERSEDE WHATEVER THE
GOVERNMENT IS CURRENTLY DOING
WITH APPROVING OR DISAPPROVING
THOSE.
BUT THE TRIBE TAKES IT VERY
SERIOUSLY AND THEY WANT TO
PROTECT EACH OTHER AND THEY HAVE
BEEN STRONG WITH THAT MESSAGE.
THE PROBLEM WHERE WE'VE SEEN THE
SAFETY COME IS -- OR PROBLEMS
WITH IT IS IN HOMES, WHERE IT'S
MULTIGENERATIONAL.
THAT'S ONE OF THE BEAUTIFUL
THINGS ABOUT THE MENOMINEE, IS
THEIR LOVE FOR FAMILY AND THEIR
CONNECTIONS.
SO THERE'S LOTS OF VISITING AND
THERE'S OVER-CROWDING IN HOMES
AND THAT'S WHERE WE'VE SEEN A
LOT OF SPREAD.
THE OTHER PLACE WE'VE SEEN IS
PEOPLE WHO WORK OUTSIDE THE
AREA, WHERE SAFETY MEASURES
AREN'T ENFORCED AND THEY BRING
IT HOME BECAUSE THEY WORK IN A
PLACE WHERE MASKS WEREN'T
ENFORCED.
>> DOCTOR, WE WISH YOU WELL WITH
THIS AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO
CHECK IN.
DR. AMY SLAGLE, THANK YOU VERY
MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.
>> MORE THAN HALF OF WISCONSIN'S
20,000 PRISON INMATES HAVE
CONTRACTED COVID-19 AND 25 OF
THEM HAVE DIED FROM THE DISEASE.
THE AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES
UNION OF WISCONSIN HAS CALLED
THE STATE'S RESPONSE TO
OUTBREAKS IN PRISON A FAILURE
AND HAS CALLED FOR
DECARCERATION.
MARISA WOJCIK SAT DOWN WITH
DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS
SECRETARY KEVIN CARR EARLIER
THIS WEEK FOR HIS TAKE ON
COVID-19 SPREADING AMONG THOSE
INCARCERATED.
>> LET'S SAY WE'VE GOT 20,000
FOLKS IN CUSTODY AND WE WANT TO
ACCOMPLISH SOCIAL DISTANCING.
THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT WE
WOULD HAVE TO RELEASE FROM
PRISON IN ORDER TO JUST ACHIEVE
THAT OBJECTIVE, I DON'T EVEN
KNOW WHAT IT IS, BUT I SPECULATE
THAT IT WOULD BE HALF.
YOU GOT TO REMEMBER THAT OUR
FACILITIES WERE DESIGNED AND
INTENDED TO BE CONGREGATE LIVING
SETTINGS WHERE TWO PEOPLE LIVED
IN ONE CELL AND THAT DORMITORIES
WERE, YOU KNOW, USED AS THE
ROUTINE WAY TO HOUSE
INDIVIDUALS.
THOSE TYPES OF SITUATIONS ARE
NOT CONDUCIVE TO MITIGATION
STRATEGIES UNLESS YOU HAVE AN
EXTREMELY LOW POPULATION.
SO I'VE TALKED TO THE GOVERNOR
ABOUT A NUMBER OF THESE THINGS,
AND NO OPTION IS OFF THE TABLE.
THERE HAS BEEN NO DECISIONS MADE
ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
BUT I CAN CERTAINLY TELL YOU
THAT WE HEAR THE ACLU AND THE
ADVOCATES ABOUT REDUCING THE
OVERALL PRISON POPULATION.
BUT, AGAIN, I'D LIKE TO REMIND
THOSE FOLKS AND YOUR VIEWERS
THAT WE'VE REDUCED OUR
POPULATION IN OUR SYSTEM BY OVER
3500 FOLKS SINCE THE BEGINNING
OF THIS PANDEMIC.
AND WE LOOK TO DO MORE.
>> THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH
SERVICES ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK
THAT PRISONERS ARE SET TO BE
PART OF THE NEXT PHASE OF THE
COVID-19 VACCINE ROLL-OUT ALONG
WITH TEACHERS, CHILD CARE
WORKERS, TRANSIT DRIVERS, FOOD
WORKERS.
THAT STARTS IN MARCH.
YOU CAN WATCH THE FULL INTERVIEW
WITH SECRETARY CARR ON OUR
WEBSITE AT pbswisconsin.org.
THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.