% >> TUESDAY'S PROTESTS IN MADISON
% IS SPARKING A DEEPER DEBATE
% ABOUT HOW FAR IS TOO FAR.
% DR. SAMI SCHALK IS AN ASSOCIATE
% PROFESSOR IN THE DEPARTMENT OF
% GENDER AND WOMEN'S STUDIES AT
% THE UW-MADISON.
% HER SPECIALTY IS THE
% INTERSECTION OF RACE, GENDER AND
% DISABILITY.
% SHE TALKED TO MARISA WOJCIK THIS
% WEEK.
% AS AN ACTIVIST HERSELF, SHE ALSO
% SPOKE TO WHAT LIKELY SPARKED
% THEM.
% >> IN RESPONSE TO THE PROTEST
% LAST NIGHT AT THE CAPITOL YOU
% TWEETED THIS MORNING PEOPLE IN
% MADISON CLUTCHING THEIR PEARLS
% AS IF FOLKS HAVEN'T BEEN
% PROTESTING AND MARCHING IN THE
% STREETS SHOUTING "NO JUSTICE, NO
% PEACE."
% YOU DON'T SEEM SURPRISED BY THE
% EVENTS LAST NIGHT, AND YOU SPOKE
% TO THIS A BIT.
% WHAT DO YOU KIND OF EXPECT GOING
% FORWARD?
% >> YEAH.
% SO, I MEAN, I ANTICIPATE THAT
% THERE WILL BE A WAVE OF
% REPRESSION, SO I ANTICIPATE --
% GOVERNOR EVERS ALREADY SAID THAT
% HE'S PREPARED TO PUT OUT THE
% NATIONAL GUARD.
% ANYTIME THE STATE KIND OF TRIES
% TO PUSH BACK, PEOPLE ARE GOING
% TO PUSH BACK MORE.
% SO RATHER THAN SAYING WE HEAR
% YOU AND WE'RE GOING TO DO
% SOMETHING TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM
% THAT YOU ARE SO UPSET ABOUT,
% THAT YOU HAVE BEEN SO HARMED BY,
% INSTEAD THERE'S THIS MASS
% SUPPRESSION.
% AND WHENEVER THAT HAPPENS,
% PEOPLE ARE GOING TO ACT OUT EVEN
% MORE.
% WHEN YOU PUT MORE VIOLENCE ON
% THE PEOPLE WHO ARE UPSET ABOUT
% VIOLENCE, YOU'RE GOING TO GET
% VIOLENCE BACK.
% AND I DON'T PERSONALLY BELIEVE
% THAT PROPERTY DESTRUCTION IS
% VIOLENCE.
% I THINK THAT IT IS A WAY THAT
% PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN
% DISEMPOWERED AND HAVE NO OTHER
% WAY TO EXPRESS THEIR POWER OTHER
% THAN TO TEAR SOMETHING DOWN
% EXPRESS THEIR POWER.
% RIGHT, THERE ARE THINGS THAT THE
% MAYOR AND THE GOVERNOR COULD BE
% DOING, BUT INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE,
% THESE LIKE 17 TO 25-YEAR-OLDS
% FOLKS OUT IN THE STREETS, WHAT
% POWER DO THEY HAVE BESIDES TO
% STREAM THE STREETS AND PULL DOWN
% A STATUE TO SAY WE'RE HERE AND
% YOU NEED TO LISTEN TO US.
% SO I ANTICIPATE THAT THAT'S
% GOING TO KEEP HAPPENING UNTIL
% THINGS SHIFT IN TERMS OF THE WAY
% THAT THE CITY RESPONDS AND THE
% CITY HAS REALLY BEEN RESPONDING
% WITH THESE PLACATING MEASURES
% AND THEN GOING BEHIND OUR BACK.
% THAT VIDEO THAT CAME OUT OF THE
% MAYOR SPEAKING TO THE POLICE, NO
% ONE TRUSTS HER NOW.
% NO ONE BELIEVES SHE'S ON OUR
% SIDE IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER.
% AND, SO, YEAH, THE TRUST HAS
% REALLY BEEN BROKEN BETWEEN FOLKS
% WHO REALLY WANTED TO BELIEVE IN
% THE LIBERAL PROGRESSIVE ETHOS OF
% MADISON THAT REALLY THINKS OF
% ITSELF AS THIS SPECIAL LITTLE
% GEM, SO DIFFERENT THAN THE REST
% OF WISCONSIN.
% AND WE SEE THAT IT'S ALL JUST A
% FACADE.
% SO FOLKS ARE REALLY FED UP.
% SO YEAH.
% I ANTICIPATE THAT WHAT WE SAW
% LAST NIGHT IS NOT THE END OF
% THAT.
% AND I THINK THAT THERE WILL BE
% MORE PUSHBACK FROM THE POLICE
% AND FROM THE NATIONAL GUARD.
% I ANTICIPATE THERE WILL PROBABLY
% BE GASSING OCCURRING AGAIN AND
% RUBBER BULLETS, BECAUSE THIS IS
% THE WAY THEY RESPOND TO PEOPLE
% EXERCISING THE LITTLE BIT OF
% POWER THAT THEY HAVE.
% >> YOU ARE HOPING FOR REAL,
% SUBSTANTIVE, LONG-TERM CHANGE AS
% AN OUTCOME OF ALL OF THIS.
% WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE
% SPECIFICALLY TO YOU?
% >> YEP.
% THAT LOOKS LIKE GETTING COPS OUT
% OF SCHOOLS IMMEDIATELY.
% THAT'S AN IMMEDIATE THING THAT
% WE CAN DO.
% IT'S SUMMER.
% BEFORE THE SCHOOL YEAR STARTS,
% WE FIND NO COPS, ABSOLUTELY NO
% COPS IN SCHOOLS.
% IT MEANS DEFUNDING THE POLICE IN
% THIS CITY AND REDIRECTING THOSE
% RESOURCES TO OTHER AREAS TO
% PROVIDE THE KINDS OF SUPPORT
% THAT WE NEED.
% WE UNDERSTAND IN THE MOVEMENT
% THAT SOME OF THE JOBS THAT COPS
% DO ARE NECESSARY, RIGHT?
% LIKE WE NEED PEOPLE WHO CAN
% BLOCK TRAFFIC SOMETIMES WHEN
% THINGS ARE HAPPENING.
% THAT DOESN'T NEED TO BE A POLICE
% OFFICER WITH A GUN.
% THERE'S NO REASON FOR IT.
% WE'RE DOING IT OURSELVES WITH
% OUR CARS.
% IT'S FINE.
% RIGHT?
% SO WE UNDERSTAND THAT THOSE
% RESOURCES, SOME OF THOSE
% RESOURCES NEED TO BE REDIRECTED
% INTO SAFETY AND TO MAKING SURE
% THAT THERE ARE THINGS TO HELP
% FOLKS WHO ARE HAVING MENTAL
% HEALTH CRISES.
% ALL OF THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN, BUT
% IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE POLICING
% WITH GUNS AND THEY HAVE WAY TOO
% MUCH POWER AND CONTROL.
% THERE NEEDS TO BE A DEFUNDING OF
% POLICE AND REDIRECTING THOSE
% RESOURCES INTO THE SPACES WE
% ACTUALLY NEED TO MAKE THIS CITY
% SAFE AND USABLE FOR A WHOLE LOT
% OF FOLKS.
% SO THOSE ARE THE MAIN THINGS.
% AND THEN COMMUNITY CONTROL.
% THAT EVEN WHEN WE DEVELOP THOSE
% SAFETY COMMITTEES TO CREATE
% SAFETY, IT HAS TO BE UNDER
% COMMUNITY CONTROL, MEANING THAT
% INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE, NOT PAID
% MEMBERS WHO ARE LIKE WORKING FOR
% THE STATE, BUT INDIVIDUAL
% MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY ARE
% ABLE TO SAY WE FIRE YOU OR WE
% REPRIMAND YOU OR WHATEVER, THAT
% THEY HAVE TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO
% THE COMMUNITY, NOT TO
% THEMSELVES.
% WITH THE POLICE UNION, THE ONLY
% PEOPLE THAT CAN REPRIMAND POLICE
% ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE POLICE.
% THAT MAKES NO SENSE, MAKES NO
% SENSE FOR THEM TO BE THE ONES
% THAT ARE SO-CALLED KEEPING
% THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE.
% THIS IS NO WAY TO HOLD PEOPLE
% ACCOUNTABLE WHEN THEY'RE JUST
% DOING IT WITHIN A GROUP.
% SO THERE NEEDS TO BE COMMUNITY
% CONTROL OF POLICE.
% THEY NEED TO BE OUT OF SCHOOLS.
% AND THEY NEED TO BE DEFUNDED.
% THAT'S OUR FIRST KIND OF MAJOR
% THING.
% BUT OF COURSE THERE ARE ALL
% KINDS OF OTHER THINGS THAT WE
% WOULD LIKE TO SEE TO MAKE SURE
% THAT WE LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE
% PEOPLE, ALL PEOPLE, INCLUDING
% MIGHT WHITE FOLKS, INCLUDING
% STRAIGHT FOLKS LIKE Y'ALL, WE
% WANT Y'ALL TO BE OKAY, TOO.
% BUT IN ORDER FOR THAT TO HAPPEN,
% WE HAVE TO BE OKAY.
% THAT'S WHY WE STRESS FOLKS WHO
% ARE MOST MARGINALIZED AND
% OPPRESSED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT