TO AN
INSIDE
LOOK
% AT
THE
POLARIZED POLITICS
A
T
THE
% STATE
LEGISLATURE.
% THE
GOOD
OLE
DAYS,
BOTH
SIDES
% COULD WORK
TOGETHER
AND
SOLVE
% PROBLEMS.
% A
NEW
STUDY
LOOKS AT
THAT.
% UW GREEN BAY
POLITICAL
SCIENTIST% AARON WEINSCHENK JOINS
US
FROM% GREEN BAY.
% THANKS FOR
JOINING
US.
% >>
THANKS
FOR
HAVING
ME.% >>
IT
TURNS
OUT
THE
GOOD
OLE
% DAYS WERE
BETTER.
% YOUR STUDY
LOOKS
AT
ROLL
CALL
% VOTES ON
THE
FLOOR TO
SEE
HOW
% OFTEN MEMBERS VOTE
WITH
THE
% OPPOSITE PARTY AND
WHAT
DOES
IT
% SHOW?%>>
YEAH.
% LEGISLATORS IN
WISCONSIN
ARE
% VERY
DIVIDED ON
THE
BASIS
OF
% POLITICAL IDEOLOGY.
% THEY'RE
FURTHER
APART
NOW
THAN
% THEY EVER HAVE BEEN IN
THE
DATA
% THAT WE
HAVE.% >>
AND
HOW
FAR
BACK
DID
YOU
% LOOK?
% WHEN
DOES
THIS
TREND
START?
% >> WE
HAVE
DATA
GOING BACK
TO
% THE
MID
TO
LATE
1990s
AND
THEN
% EVERY YEAR
SINCE
THEN UP T
O
% 2016.
% SO WE
HAVE A
PRETTY
LONG
TIME
% SERIES
WHERE WE
CAN
LOOK
AT
THE
% IDEOLOGICAL DIVIDE AND
IT'S BEEN
% GROWING EVERY
YEAR
IN
WISCONSIN.% >>
YOU
LOOKED
AT
THE
REST OF
THE
% MIDWEST.
% HOW
DOES
WISCONSIN
COMPARE
TO
% STATES SURROUNDING
US?
% >> I
WAS
ABLE
TO
LOOK
AT
THE
% DISTANCE
BETWEEN
THE
PARTIES
IN
% OUR
NEIGHBORING
STATES.
% THERE
AGAIN,
WE'RE
ONE OF
THE
% MOST
POLARIZED
STATES.
% THERE'S
ONLY
ONE
STATE
THAT'S
% MORE
POLARIZED THAN
US,
PYSH
% BEGAN.
% WE'RE
SANDWICHED
IN
BETWEEN
% MINNESOTA AND
MICHIGAN.
% >> WITH
THE
LOOK
AT
THE
ROLL
% CALL
VOTES, IS THAT THE BEST% WAY?
% DO
POLITICIANS
THEMSELVES AGREE
% THAT'S A
FAIR
WAY
TO
JUDGE
% POLARIZATION?%>>
YEAH.
% THAT'S A PRETTY STANDARD
WAY
OF
% MEASURING IT
IN
POLITICAL
% SCIENCE.
% THAT'S WHAT
WE'VE
DONE
IN
THE
% U.S.
CONGRESS,
WHICH A
LOT
OF
% PEOPLE HEAR ABOUT
AND
I
S
% FREQUENTLY REPORTED ON
IN
THE
% NATIONAL
NEWS.
% IT'S A PRETTY BASIC
WAY
OF
% CAPTURING
IDEOLOGY
OF
% POLITICIANS.
% >> FOR
INSTANCE,
IN
WISCONSIN W
E
% JUST
HAD
THE
BUDGET
VOTE
AND
THE
% DEMOCRATS IN
THE
LEGISLATURE ALL
% VOTED
AGAINST
THE
BUDGET THAT% WAS
PASSED
AND
YET
THEY
STOOD
% BEHIND GOVERNOR EVERS
WHEN
HE
% SIGNED
HIS
PARTIALLY
VETOED
% VERSION
OF
IT
AND
REPUBLICANS
% ARE
CRITICIZING THEM
SAYING
YOU
% VOTED AGAINST
THIS
BUDGET,
NOW
% YOU'RE
STANDING BEHIND
IT.
% HOW
WOULD
THAT
VOTE
INFLUENCE
% THEIR
ROLL
CALL
VOTES?
% SHOW
ONING
MORE
!
SHOWING
MORE
POLARIZATION.% >>
I
THINK
THAT'S A
PICTURE OF
% THE
LEGISLATORS
BEING
PRETTY
% DIVIDED, BUT
MAYBE A
GESTURE
BY% GOVERNOR EVERS THAT
HE'S
WILLING
% TO WORK
WITH
REPUBLICANS.
% I'M
SURE
THAT'S
NOT
HIS
IDEAL
% BUDGET.
% REPUBLICANS
GOT A
LOT OUT OF
IT.
% MAYBE
THAT'S HIM
SAYING
I'M
% TRYING
TO
WORK WITH
YOU.
% BUT
I
THINK
THAT
ALMOST
% IMMEDIATELY
AFTERWARDS THERE
WAS
% MOTION
OR
PROPOSAL PUT
FORWARD
% BY
REPUBLICANS
TO
CURTAIL SOME% OF
THE
GOVERNOR'S POWER AND
I
% THINK
THAT'S
POLARIZATION
% REARING
ITS
HEAD
AGAIN
WHERE
% IT'S SORT OF
TRYING T
O
CHANGE
% THE
RULES
OR
LIMIT
THE
POWER
OF
% SOMEBODY
IN AN
INSTITUTION
WHO
% YOU
MAYBE
DISAGREE
WITH.% >>
IN
MANY
CASES
IN
WISCONSIN
% GERRYMANDERING HAS
CREATED
% LOCKED
DISTRICTS, WHERE
ONLY
ONE
% PARTY
CAN WIN
ND A
THE PRIMARY
% IS
THE
REAL
RACE.
% THE
ONLY
WAY AN
INCUMBENT
CAN
% LOSE
IS
THEY
DON'T
FOLLOW
THE
% PARTY LINE.
% HOW MUCH
DOES
THAT
HAVE
TO
DO
% WITH
POLARIZATION?% >>
I
THINK
THAT'S A BIG PART
OF
% IT.
% THESE
DAYS
PARTIES
WANT
TO
% CONTROL WHO RUNS FOR
OFFICE.
% WE
HEAR
ABOUT
PARTIES
% CHALLENGING A PERSON
WHO'S A
% MEMBER
OF
THEIR
PARTY
WHO% DOESN'T D
O
EXACTLY
WHAT
THEY
% WANT OR
SPENDING A
LOT
OF
MONEY
% TO PUT
UP AN
OPPONENT.
% SO THAT
DEFINITELY
IS AN
EFFECT
% OF
POLARIZATION.% >>
EVEN IF
THE
NEXT
ROUND
OF
% REDISTRICTING RESULTS IN
MORE
% COMPETITIVE THERE
ARE
MORE
% FACTORS OUT
THERE,
INCREASE
IN
% SPECIAL
INTEREST
MONEY
IN
% ELECTIONS.
% SO IN
SHORT,
DOESN'T
LOOK
LIKE
% POLARIZATION IS IT
GOING
AWAY
% ANYTIME
SOON.
% >>
NO.
% DEFINITELY NOT.
% THERE'S A LIMIT.
% MATHEMATICALLY
THERE'S A POINT
% WHERE
WE
CAN'T
GET
ANY
MORE
% POLARIZED IF
EVERY
SINGLE
PERSON
% HAS AN
EXTREME
IDEOLOGICAL
% POSITION.
% WE'RE
NOT
THERE
YET,
BUT
WE'RE
% GETTING PRETTY CLOSE.
% THERE
AREN'T MANY
MODERATES
LEFT
% IN
CONGRESS
OR
STATE
% LEGISLATURES.%>>
THE
STRUCTURE OF
THE
AMERICAN
% POLITICAL SYSTEM
FORCES
TWO
% PARTIES
TO
EXIST
AND
DOESN'T
% LEAVE ROOM
FOR A THIRD PARTY.
% BUT IF
THE
PARTIES KEEP
DRIFTING
% TO THE
RIGHT
AND
THE
LEFT,
DOES
% THAT
OPEN
UP
ROOM
IN
THE
MIDDLE
% FOR A
CONSISTENT THIRD PARTY TO
% ACTUALLY REALIZE
POWER AS
% OPPOSED
TO
JUST
BEING
PERHAPS A
% SPOILER IN
SOME
ELECTIONS?% >> YEAH.
% I
THINK
IT'S
GOING TO
BE
PRETTY
% DIFFICULT
FOR A THIRD
PARTY
TO
% EMERGE
IN
AMERICAN POLITICS
% GIVEN THE WAY
THAT
WE
OPERATE
% OUR
ELECTIONS.
% I
THINK
THAT
IT
DOES
GENERATE A
% LOT
OF
DISSATISFACTION
AND
THAT
% MAY
BE
WHY
PEOPLE
ARE
LOOKING
% TOWARDS
UNCONVENTIONAL
% POLITICIANS OR
OCCASIONALLY% THIRD PARTIES.
% BUT
I
THINK
IT'S
GOING TO BE
% DIFFICULT
FOR A THIRD PARTY
TO
% WIN
ELECTIONS AT
THE
NATIONAL
% LEVEL.%>>
DOES
THIS
JUST
CREATE
MORE
% CYNICISM
FOR
VOTERS
WHO MAY
BE
% IN ONE
OF
THOSE
DISTRICTS WHERE
% THEY DON'T AGREE
WITH
THE
% POLITICIAN IN
POWER,
BUT THEY
% HAVE
NO
WAY TO
GET
THEM
OUT?
% VOTERS ARE
THE
ONLY
ONES
THAT
% CAN CHANGE
THIS,
RIGHT?
% >> THAT'S RIGHT.
% IT
IS A
SELF-REINFORCING CYCLE.
% VOTERS
SOMETIMES
WITHDRAW
WHEN
% THEY
THINK
THAT
THINGS
ARE
% GRIDLOCKED
AND
THERE'S
NOTHING
% THEY
CAN
DO
ABOUT
IT.
% WHEN
YOU
ASK
PEOPLE
WHO
SAY
THEY
% DON'T
LIKE
LEGISLATORS
OR
% CONGRESS
WHAT IT I
S
THEY
DON'T
% LIKE, MORE
THAN
50%
WILL
TELL
% YOU
SOMETHING
RELATED
T
O
% GRIDLOCK OR
BEING
STUCK
OR
BEING
% TOO
DIVIDED.
% SO
IT
DEFINITELY MAKES
ITS
WAY
% INTO
HOW
THE
PUBLIC
SEES THESE
% INSTITUTIONS.%>> ALL
RIGHT.
% AARON
WEINSCHENK
IN
GREEN
WAY,% THANK YOU FOR