>> I'm Frederica Freyberg.
Tonight on "Here and Now," a first look at the state budget,
which moved forward this week.
After that, a look ahead to the fall congressional session
with U.S. Representatives Moore and Gallagher.
Then a closer look at the widening field of Dems
running for governor.
Tonight Mike McCabe is here.
It's "Here and Now" for September 15.
>> Funding for "Here and Now" is provided, in part,
by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.
>> A first look tonight at the final flurry of the legislature
working in tandem to pass the $76 billion state budget
and the $3 billion Foxconn deal this week.
Even as four Republican senators held out on voting
in favor of the budget, with three of them making demands,
right down to the wire.
[Roll call vote]
>> The state senate went in today on the budget,
even with its majority leader
not sure late into the week that he had the votes to pass it.
Three Republican senators were demanding changes
in return for their votes.
Changes including raising the income limit for school choice
and banning the UW from spending money on diversity training.
>> To root out every area of waste and abuse.
>> That angered the Assembly Speaker,
who did not want to make substantive changes
at the last minute.
>> Wholesale changes where somebody says
"I've got all kinds of things throughout the process
and now I want one more thing to vote yes."
That's not how our process works.
And we're not going to be held hostage to individuals
who have some kind of a wish list that they want
after the process has continued.
>> The Assembly this week
passed the state budget on a 57-39 vote,
with five Republicans voting no
along with all Democrats.
Minority Leader Peter Barca bemoaned the document
for failing to find a funding source for roads and highways.
>> You can ask the various people
that are involved in this industry.
And every one of them will tell you
that this is an absolute catastrophe.
That the delays are going to be enormous.
It's going to hurt rural districts
and rural places around the state that are already beginning
to turn some of their asphalt roads into gravel.
>> You will not hear me say this again today,
but the Democrats have a point.
We have tried as hard as we could
to find a solution for transportation.
Now, we have taken a step backwards to say
this budget today ensures that
the problem does not get worse under our watch.
>> Now, the Assembly and Senate passed the $3 billion Foxconn
incentive package and it awaits the governor's signature.
Now the remaining work lies with the senate
which is on the floor right now
after some drama and deal-making today over whether
the majority leader had the votes to pass the budget.
WPR's Capitol Bureau Chief Shawn Johnson
is just outside the chambers tonight.
Thanks for joining us.
>> Hi Frederica.
>> Any idea whether those holdouts will in fact
vote in the affirmative on this budget?
>> So they've said that they would.
You had three Republican senators--
actually four Republican senators--
going into today saying that they were no votes.
We've now heard from three of them or from their offices
that they will vote for this budget.
Those senators were Steve Nass, Chris Kapenga and Duey Stroebel.
And they came to that conclusion
that they were going to be yes votes
after a discussion with the governor this morning
via phone while the governor was in South Korea.
>> So how did the Republican leader
and the governor get those holdouts to this yes vote?
Any ideas?
>> We don't know the specifics of that yet.
They've said that they're going to announce those details
after the budget vote.
So we've got a situation tonight where about 17 amendments
are going to be discussed in the Senate tonight.
They won't pass.
There will be changes made to the budget that we know.
But they're going to come after this is all said and done.
So we're going to hear about those details later.
But we know that the governor made some type of veto
assurances to these Republican senators that made them
feel comfortable enough that they could support the plan.
>> So how unusual is all of this?
To have the majority go this close over a major bill
like the budget and all of this right at the last moment?
In the midst of it?
>> So it's not unusual for a budget
to go up to the last minute.
It's just kind of when
they decide the last minute is going to be.
If you look at the big picture here,
Republicans have their largest majorities in the capitol
in decades.
And so for them to be two and a half months past deadline,
that in and of itself is unusual.
The way they're wrapping up is a bit unusual.
You don't usually hear veto assurances
discussed that morning in kind of a public way.
And then the details of those veto assurances
not come out until later that night.
So there are a lot of elements of this
that are not your typical budget.
But the fact that they're going up to the last minute
as they kind of set that clock, that's pretty typical.
>> Now, take us through what the budget does and doesn't do.
>> So, I mean, big picture, it's a $76 billion state budget
when you take state money and federal money.
The governor's big highlight he talks about at nearly every stop
when he talks about this budget is the increased school funding.
The $639 million worth of increased funding
for K-12 public schools.
It would phase out a property tax.
Reduce property taxes on businesses
and so those are kind of the high points for Republicans.
For Democrats there's been a lot of talk
about that education increase being too little too late.
They've really kind of sought to contrast what's in this budget
and what could have been in the budget with what Republicans
approved earlier this week,
which was a $3 billion incentive package for Foxconn
that came before the budget vote.
>> I thought it was curious that the Assembly Speaker said
he would not vote again on this budget
to appease senate Republicans,
but if there are changes
he wouldn't have a choice, would he?
>> You would have had a pretty big game of chicken at
that point because you had the Assembly basically saying,
"We're not going to do--
we're not going to take up what you're voting on."
You would have had the Senate saying, "So what.
You're going to have to. We passed it."
They would have been at a standstill at that point.
So they've avoided that this time.
You're not going to get to see that game of chicken.
It looks like we're going to have budget tonight.
>> Shawn Johnson, thanks very much for joining us
and don't stay too late.
>> You're welcome.
>> We head to Washington now, where Congress hopes to get
some traction on legislature, including what to
do on the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals Program.
We caught up with Republican
U.S. Representative Mike Gallagher late in the week.
First I want to say thanks very much for joining us.
>> Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
>> So either President Trump made an agreement with Democrats
over DACA to protect dreamers from deportation or he didn't.
But what is your position on what should happen with DACA,
which the president rescinded last week?
>> Well, to your point, I think there's been conflicting stories
about whether there's an agreement,
whether there isn't an agreement.
Speaker Ryan, as I was talking in here,
was on TV suggesting there isn't yet an agreement.
I think the president was right to give Congress six months
in order to step up and take action.
And Congress needs to do its job.
And I think if we are simultaneously willing
to have a discussion about border security,
then we can begin a debate.
But we have to secure the border first and foremost.
It's not secure.
I even worked at the drug enforcement agency for a year
doing counter narcotics work.
I can tell you that firsthand.
So if we're going to be having the DACA discussion,
we need to have the border security discussion
at the same time.
>> Do you favor a fix that might include a pathway to citizenship
for the 7600 recipients of DACA in Wisconsin?
>> I'm certainly sympathetic to the dreamers who came here
through no fault of their own.
There's something out there now called the Enlist Act
that would allow for citizenship
for those who stepped up and served in our military.
I think there's proposals like that that should be considered.
But again if we don't secure the border first and foremost
and then do a Band-Aid fix
by creating a pathway to citizenship for the dreamers,
then we'll actually have made the problem worse
'cause you've incentivized the people to break the law.
That's really the problem with the system overall.
We have a fundamentally broken immigration system that punishes
people trying to do it the right way.
And helps people that are trying to break our laws.
So we have to have respect for the rule of law in this country.
I understand we're a nation of immigrants.
But we have to find a way
to restore some semblance of respect for the rule of law
and fix the immigration system more broadly.
Because there may be times when we want to have more people come
into this country.
And right now the immigration system makes us economically
uncompetitive and makes it a farce out of the law.
>> Let me just jump in on this
before we move onto another matter.
Would you want to protect dreamers from deportation?
>> Well, I think I support
the president's desire to find some fix.
There's about four proposals that are out there right now
that I'm reviewing.
My hope is that if the other side is willing to come to
the table on border security, then we can have a conversation.
And I'm certain that everyone wants to see
this problem resolved in a humane and just way.
>> All right. On this other matter.
It's a little confusing
and had to do with the president siding with Democratic leaders
for a short-term debt limit extension,
tying it to Hurricane Harvey relief.
And you voted no on this measure.
Why?
>> I voted yes for help for the victims of Hurricane Harvey
when it came up earlier in the week,
when it was a stand-alone bill.
It should be a stand-alone bill.
And then what the Senate did is attach it
to a continuing resolution and a debt ceiling increase.
So a debt ceiling increase absent meaningful reform
when it comes to driving up our debt
strikes me as entirely irresponsible.
We need to fix that broken process.
Continuing resolutions
are the epitome of why Washington is broken.
Since 2010 we spent about 1,000 days
of operating under a continuing resolution.
And as Secretary Mattis--
Secretary of Defense Mattis confirmed in a letter
to Senator McCain and Chairman Mac Thornberry this week,
continuing resolutions
are devastating for the U.S. military.
It's bad process. It's bad policy.
It doesn't help us fund the programs we need to fund.
It actually drives up costs.
And it's a perfect example of how and why
Washington D.C. is broken.
We have to find a way to restore regular order
and govern as we should be governing.
>> Let me ask what you think
of the president of your party
reaching across the aisle in these kinds of ways
making deals with the Democrats?
>> I think you should always be having a conversation.
I'm part a problem solvers caucus.
I'm a conservative.
I think you can be looking for principled compromise without
compromising your principles.
As a younger member of Congress, as one of three millennials in
Congress, I think it's apparent politics as usual isn't working.
I think there's a lot of appetite
for new ideas and new solutions.
What struck me for far early in my first term is how hard it is
to even carve out a space to have a civil conversation
about some of the more difficult issues,
like health care or tax reform,
let alone the drivers of our debt.
So I think carving out a space where people from different
ideological perspectives can come together
and have an honest debate is always a good thing.
You might just learn something from that process.
>> You have expressed yourself against the president
on other occasions.
Naming in the wake of his suggesting quote many sides were
to blame in the Charlottesville white supremacists violence.
You said, "The president needs to be crystal clear
"that hatred has no place in our society
but he is currently failing at it."
He's now poised to sign a Congressional resolution
condemning the Charlottesville violence and white supremacy.
Do you think that will pull him into a passing grade
on this issue in your mind?
>> Well I think it's a step in the right direction.
Obviously I wish the White House would have been
clearer in condemning the neo-Nazis that we saw
and the racism, bigotry, and intolerance.
But this is a step in the right direction.
I think everyone in public office has a duty to make it
crystal clear that such hatred is not only unacceptable,
it's anti-American.
It's antithesis to our founding creed as a nation.
I'm happy that he's going to sign this resolution.
I know a lot of people of my party were upset or are upset
if I ever disagree with the president
but I don't work for the president.
I don't work for any party leader
or even a political party.
I represent 730,000 people in northeast Wisconsin.
I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution.
That's where my loyalty lies.
I'm just going to be honest about how I feel
about each issue as it comes up.
>> I know the tax plan involving cutting the corporate rates,
simplifying tax brackets and eliminating the estate tax
and the alternative minimum tax is in the work.
President Trump insists these would not be tax cuts
for the rich, but what if the tax cuts add to the deficit?
>> Well there's an argument that with tax cuts you could see
an uptick in economic growth.
And certainly it's my belief that if you allow people to keep
more of what they earn, they will be able to make better
decisions about how to spend that money rather
than having bureaucrats in Washington D.C. make decisions
about how to spend that money.
I think everyone understands
the importance of getting tax reform done.
I think done the right way.
If we keep it simple and transparent
and eliminate all these loopholes and deductions
that allow special interests and lobbyists to profit
at the expense of average hard working Wisconsin families.
I think we will see an uptick in economic activity.
I think we'll see a dramatic uptick in growth.
That will increase the revenue that
the government is able to collect.
So I'm hopeful that we will move forward on tax reform.
I talked to -- it's not just big companies.
It's every small business in northeast Wisconsin
that's struggling to survive every single day.
We need to think about them
when we think about simplifying the tax code.
And think about families.
They want to keep more of what they earn
and make those decisions in a prudential way.
>> I need to leave it there.
Representative Mike Gallagher, thanks very much for joining us.
>> Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
>> We spoke with Congressman Gallagher earlier.
On the other side of the aisle,
U.S. Representative Gwen Moore of Milwaukee
with her take on the issues.
Thanks very much for being here.
>> Always great to be with you.
>> Earlier this month as you know,
President Trump rescinded the DACA program.
Now it looks like he may be working with Democrats to
protect dreamers from deportation in return for what
he calls tough border security.
What is your reaction, though, to the president
and his words and deeds on DACA?
>> Well, Frederica, I can tell you
that DACA really makes sense.
It makes sense
from a humanitarian and moral standpoint.
But it also makes sense from an economic perspective.
We've invested in these kids.
800,000 of them.
Most of them have been educated
through our public school system.
They've gone on to college.
They've served in the military.
So apparently someone has gotten through to him through
this little window to say that he'll at least support
this legislatively.
It remains to be seen whether or not the Republican leadership,
Paul Ryan and McConnell, actually put this legislation
on the floor.
If they put it on the floor of the house,
I can guarantee you it would pass.
>> Now the dems apparently thought he agreed on a path
to citizenship.
He know says that's not the case.
I'm a little unclear what his position is at this moment.
But what is your position on that pathway to citizenship?
>> I think a pathway to citizenship
is absolutely necessary.
You know, there would be absolutely no point
in breaking up families.
Again, I think the security of the United States and the
economic security of the United States is really at stake.
And so hopefully this quote unquote deal will hold.
When you're dealing with Donald Trump, you just--
it's really like trying to grab hold of a bowl of jello.
>> Earlier this summer you called for the impeachment
of Donald Trump over his response
to the white supremacist violence in Charlottesville.
But now he has signed
this Congressional resolution denouncing white supremacy.
Are you still calling for his impeachment?
>> You know, by any means necessary he needs to go.
I think that he is mentally unstable.
I do think, I agree with Dr. Alvin Poussaint
the renowned Harvard University scholar and psychiatrist
that says racism is a mental illness.
And the extent to which Donald Trump has doubled down,
tripled down, quadrupled down as recently as yesterday to support
these white supremacists means that it is really part of a--
an indelible part of his character.
And I don't think he's fit.
One reason to represent all people in the United States.
I think that he is, you know,
you know, Charlottesville is just one issue.
And when you look at the situation in North Korea
and his saber-rattling there, his support of Vladimir Putin,
who is trying to destroy all of our democratic institutions,
interfere in our elections, discredit the mainstream media,
I think he is a dangerous person.
And so I support impeachment.
I support censorship and I certainly support removing him
through the 25th Amendment of the Constitution.
I don't think that we can bear four years of Donald Trump.
>> Congressional Republicans
are now working on a tax cut package.
The president says it is not a tax cut for the rich.
What do you make of their tax changes and whether simplifying
the code, for example, would help your constituents?
>> Well, let me tell you.
We are long due for tax reform.
I think everybody would agree we need to do that.
But it all depends on what your definition of tax reform is.
And tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans
is certainly not tax reform.
We've spent 30 years having every corporate interest
march up to Washington D.C. and get their special interests
sewn into our tax code, so we now have
a very asymmetric tax code with various incentives.
And it really is not helping
the middle class or the poor at all.
Certainly this is Paul Ryan's tax reform plan.
And I've been on the budget committee with Paul Ryan
when he was the budget committee chair.
So I know very, very well that his idea of tax reform,
you know, involves taxes, corporate taxes,
providing tax breaks to the wealthy.
Right now one of the reasons the Republicans were so serious
about so-called health care reform is because they wanted to
take almost a trillion dollars out of health care
so they could use it for tax cuts.
So if that's the kind of tax reform, I call tax deform,
Frederica, that they want to do, I'm not on board with that.
But certainly -- go on, Frederica.
>> Here at home the Foxconn incentive package
is on its way to the governor, having passed the legislature.
Have you in favor of that Foxconn deal?
>> Well, Frederica, I'm going to have to admit that I didn't take
a deep dive into all of the details.
But from what I can gather, it has some very perverse items.
It seems like we want to socialize the cost
and privatize the profits, if you ask me.
There's no guarantee
that all these jobs are going to be created.
But it's going to cost a lot -- taxpayers are going to have to
pay a great deal for this quote unquote deal.
Foxconn doesn't have a great reputation in terms of other
things that they've done, and so this is very, very frightening.
>> What about the-- with just about 30 seconds left,
what about the appeal of certain number of jobs, up to 13,000,
according to state officials?
>> Sure wish he had done this with Talgo.
We needed those jobs in Milwaukee.
It was a much better deal than Foxconn is.
I think this is all political to drive Donald Trump's agenda.
Again I think it's a corporatist package.
I hope to be wrong, but I don't think it's going to provide
the yield that we expect.
>> All right. We need to leave it there.
U.S. Representative Gwendolynne Moore out of Washington.
Thanks for joining us.
>> Thank you. Be well, Frederica.
>> Thank you.
Now back to state politics and the next in our series
of interviews with candidates running for governor.
Tonight, the former executive director of the Wisconsin
Democracy Campaign and founder of Blue Jean Nation,
Democratic Mike McCabe,
who announced his candidacy on Tuesday.
Thanks very much for being here. >> My pleasure.
>> So what sets you apart from the other Democrats running
in this crowded field?
>> Well, there's going to be a lot of candidates.
It's going to be a crowded field indeed.
They're all very accomplished people.
They come from different backgrounds.
They've got different experience.
But they all have at least one thing in common.
They seem very, very comfortable operating
within the political system as it currently functions.
And I'm not.
They all seem at peace with the political culture as it is.
And I'm not comfortable with the culture.
I think it's been poisoned.
And I think the system is working really,
really well for a very wealthy and well-connected,
privileged few, but it's leaving an awful lot of people behind.
It's failing a lot of us.
>> So it's been poisoned by?
>> By the influence of huge donations
that go to elected officials, who then return the favor
with actions that benefit those big donors.
And it's done at everyone else's expense.
It's a government that works for a few
and leaves everybody else behind.
>> Meanwhile, as you launch this campaign
in this way with this message,
I saw this week that Republicans are criticizing you
for being a hypocrite for taking money from George Soros.
What about that?
>> There is so much
that's misleading and untruthful about all of that
we'd probably need two shows to straighten it all out.
It's a sign they must be spooked by my candidacy.
But when I ran the Wisconsin Democracy Campaign,
we got a grant from the Open Society Institute,
which is a charitable foundation that is prohibited
by federal law from doing anything to influence elections.
They now try to equate that foundation
with these dark money groups that try to influence elections
and conceal who's doing the funding.
So, you know, I think it's because
they've drenched themselves in so much dark money,
tens of millions of dollars, to try to buy elections
and now they want to muddy the waters and equate
what a nonprofit group gets from a charitable foundation
with that operation.
>> Let's move along to the issues.
What do you think is the single-most important thing
that Wisconsin needs to do to make
its education system more robust, better going forward?
>> I think first of all we've got to make sure
that we have affordable and debt-free education
for everybody in the state.
You know, when people go to get the education they need
to have a path to the American dream.
They can't be buried under a mountain of debt
the way they are now.
And right from the beginning,
we have to do a better job of adequately funding our schools
and dealing with the morale problems within those schools.
But then all the way up through the tech school
and university level, we've got to make sure
that it's affordable for everybody.
And it's not right now.
There are an awful lot of people
who can't afford that path to the American dream.
>> If the Affordable Care Act remains in place,
would you be in favor of taking expanded Medicaid for Wisconsin?
>> Absolutely.
We have the BadgerCare program here in Wisconsin.
I actually favor expanding that to the point
where it's there for all Badgers.
We should make BadgerCare something that is
available to everyone in the state,
make it a public option that anybody could buy into,
if they wanted or needed.
It should be on the public insurance exchange.
>> What's the best way in
your mind to grow good-paying jobs in Wisconsin?
>> Invest in small businesses and empower five million people
in the state instead of showering tax breaks and state
subsidies on a few thousand or even one or two huge global
conglomerates and hope that they somehow will work
magic for the rest of us.
And some of that will
trickle down to the rest of the population.
>> Speaking of that, what is your position on the Foxconn
incentive deal and Foxconn itself?
>> Corporate welfare
is just not the way to build a sturdy economy.
It's been a failed strategy for a long time.
And it's because the whole approach,
this top-down approach, giving lavish benefits to a few in
hopes that some will trickle down to the rest of us
is the wrong way to go.
We need to do an about-face and build an economy
from the bottom up.
Empower five million people.
Living wages for everyone.
Health care for all.
Internet to every single household.
Debt-free education so that you give people the means to do more
for themselves and for each other.
>> What would be your idea for a funding source,
sustainable funding source going forward for Wisconsin's roads
and highways, which we seem to have so much trouble with?
>> The two options we're using right now is both neglect of our
roads to the point where they're some of the worst in the country
and then borrowing so heavily.
20 cents out of every dollar doesn't even go to roads.
It goes to debt payments.
We've got to be willing to be reasonable and maybe put
a couple pennies on the gas tax.
Pay for it now rather than put it on a credit card and make
future generations pay for it.
>> We need to leave it there. Mike McCabe, thanks very much.
>> Thank you.
>> We now turn to a Wisconsin connection to Florida and that
state's hurricane recovery.
The record-breaking deployment of Wisconsin National Guard
troops sent to aid victims of Hurricane Irma has been reduced,
due to less storm damage than anticipated.
650 guard members are now deployed in Florida.
And that is our program for tonight.
I'm Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend.
>> Funding for "Here and Now" is provided, in part,
by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.