THE FOUNDER OF "BLUE JEAN NATION" WAS APPARENTLY ON TO SOMETHING
IN A VERY REAL WAY.
MIKE MCCABE WROTE A BOOK TITLED "BLUE JEANS IN HIGH PLACES:
THE COMING MAKEOVER OF AMERICAN POLITICS,"
DESCRIBING HOW THE AMERICAN ELECTORATE IS FED UP
WITH THE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM AND YEARNING FOR SOMETHING NEW.
THIS WEEK MCCABE TALLIED RECENT POLLING
THAT PUTS A SHARP POINT ON HIS PREMISE.
AND HE JOINS US TONIGHT. THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
>> MY PLEASURE.
>> WELL, SO YOU RECENTLY WROTE THAT 90%
OF VOTERS LACK CONFIDENCE IN THE COUNTRY'S POLITICAL SYSTEM,
WHERE UPWARDS OF HALF
SAY THE TWO-PARTY STRUCTURE IS SERIOUSLY BROKEN.
HOW DOES THIS PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION CYCLE BEAR THIS OUT?
>> THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IS LIKE THE CANARY IN A COAL MINE.
IT INDICATES THAT THERE'S SOMETHING TOXIC.
FROM ALL APPEARANCES IT LOOKS LIKE THE PARTY ESTABLISHMENTS
ARE GOING TO KEEP GOING RIGHT DOWN THE MINE SHAFT.
BUT THERE IS SOMETHING TOXIC THERE.
AND TO ME IN A DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC,
WHEN THERE IS A PUBLIC CONSENSUS THAT WE, THE PEOPLE,
ARE BEING RULED AND NOT REPRESENTED,
THAT'S THE VERY DEFINITION OF SYSTEM FAILURE.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'VE GOT ON OUR HANDS HERE,
IS A SYSTEM THAT'S FAILING.
AND THAT'S WHAT THAT ASSOCIATED PRESS POLLING SHOWED,
IS THAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING THESE PARTIES,
THESE POLITICIANS AREN'T LISTENING TO US,
THEY'RE NOT REPRESENTING OUR INTERESTS.
WE'RE NOT BEING REPRESENTED.
AND THE RULING CLASS HASN'T CLUED INTO THAT YET.
>> NOW, HAVING WATCHED THE RISE OF DONALD TRUMP AND BERNIE
SANDERS, BOTH OF WHOM APPARENTLY KIND OF TAP INTO VOTER ANGER,
DO YOU FIND YOURSELF SAYING I TOLD YOU SO?
>> WHEN I WROTE THAT BOOK, I DIDN'T SEE DONALD TRUMP COMING
OR BERNIE SANDERS COMING.
BUT I DID SEE THE BOILING DISCONTENT,
THAT THE POLITICAL
ESTABLISHMENTS WEREN'T SENSITIVE TO OR WERE BLOWING OFF.
I DON'T KNOW WHICH IT IS,
BUT THEY JUST WEREN'T TAKING THAT SERIOUSLY.
AND OF COURSE TRUMP IN HIS WAY AND SANDERS IN HIS WAY
TAPPED INTO THAT ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT FEELING.
AND, YOU KNOW, IT MANIFESTED ITSELF
IN A REALLY TUMULTUOUS PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION YEAR.
LIKE I SAID, IT'S THE CANARY IN A COAL MINE.
IT SAYS WHAT'S GOING ON.
IT SAYS SOMETHING POWERFUL ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON
IN OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM.
>> YOU'VE DONE A LOT OF THINKING ABOUT THIS AND A LOT OF WRITING.
HOW DID WE GET TO THIS PLACE?
>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THE THING THAT IS INTERESTING TO ME
IS THAT STILL PEOPLE FIND IT UNIMAGINABLE THAT
A MAJOR PARTY COULD DIE OR A NEW MAJOR PARTY COULD BE BORN.
AND IT'S UNIMAGINABLE
BECAUSE IT HASN'T HAPPENED IN OUR LIFETIMES.
BUT IF YOU GO BACK IN AMERICAN HISTORY, IT HAS HAPPENED.
THE INTERESTING THING IS EVERY TIME IT'S HAPPENED THE
CONDITIONS WERE EERILY SIMILAR TO THE CONDITIONS TODAY,
THE SAME KIND OF PUBLIC DISCONTENT.
THE SAME KIND OF RISING ECONOMIC INEQUALITY,
THE SAME KIND OF ANGST YOU SEE TODAY WAS PRESENT IN THE PAST
WHEN WE HAD THE POLITICAL EQUIVALENT OF EARTHQUAKES.
AND I THINK ANOTHER ONE IS COMING.
>> GIVE ME SOME OF THOSE EXAMPLES.
>> THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WAS BORN AND WHEN IT WAS BORN,
IT WAS THE TIME OF SLAVERY.
AND WHEN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WAS BORN, THE WHIG PARTY DIED.
THE WHIG PARTY SPLINTERED.
IT LOST ITS ENTIRE NORTHERN BASE OF SUPPORT,
INCLUDING ABRAHAM LINCOLN.
ABE LINCOLN WAS A WHIG AND BECAME A REPUBLICAN.
SO THIS NEW MAJOR PARTY CAME ON THE SCENE
AND DROVE THE WHIGS TO EXTINCTION.
YOU FAST FORWARD A GENERATION AND A HALF OR SO AND THE
PROGRESSIVE PARTY WAS BORN AND THE PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT
AND THE POPULACE WERE RESPONDING TO THE GILDED AGE,
THE AGE OF THE ROBBER BARONS.
GROTESQUE ECONOMIC INEQUALITY AT THAT TIME.
THE COUNTRY HAD PLUMMETED INTO DEPRESSION IN THE MID 1890s.
THE PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT FORCED BOTH MAJOR PARTIES AT THE TIME
TO ADAPT OR PERISH LIKE THE WHIGS DID.
THEY ADAPTED.
THEY EMBRACED THE PROGRESSIVE AGENDA.
THEY ENACTED THOSE PROGRESSIVE REFORMS AND THEY SURVIVED.
SO IT REALLY DEPENDS ON HOW A MAJOR PARTY RESPONDS TO THESE
CONDITIONS, BUT THEY WILL HAVE TO EITHER ADAPT OR PERISH,
ONE OF THE TWO.
>> YOU DON'T THINK THAT TODAY'S PARTIES
HAVE MORE POWER AND INFLUENCE THAN THOSE IN THE PAST?
IN OTHER WORDS, TO HOLD ON?
>> THERE WILL ALWAYS BE PEOPLE WHO, WHEN IN POWER,
BELIEVE THAT THEY CAN FOREVER HOLD ON TO POWER
AND THAT THEY CAN LOOK INTO THEIR PLAY BOOK AND THEY CAN
FIND SOME TRICK THAT WILL ENABLE THEM TO HOLD ONTO POWER
EVEN WHEN CONDITIONS MAKE THEM ILLEGITIMATE LEADERS.
WE'RE AT A POINT WHERE TODAY'S LEADERS HAVE GROWN ILLEGITIMATE
IN THE EYES OF THE PUBLIC.
THEY'RE USING EVERY TRICK IN THE BOOK TO TRY TO HANG ON TO POWER.
THEY ARE GOING TO EVENTUALLY HAVE TO COME TO TERMS WITH THE
FACT THAT THEY'LL EITHER HAVE TO ADAPT OR PERISH.
>> WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE. MIKE MCCABE.
HIS BOOK IS "BLUE JEANS IN HIGH PLACES."
THANKS VERY MUCH. >> MY PLEASURE.