>> PRESENT OF "HERE & NOW" IS
MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE
ANIMAL DENTAL CENTER OF
MILWAUKEE AND OSHKOSH, A
VETERINARY SPECIALIST WORKING
WITH PET OWNERS AND FAMILY
VETERINARIANS THROUGHOUT
WISCONSIN, PROVIDING CARE FOR
ORAL DISEASE AND DENTAL PROBLEMS
OF SMALL COMPANION ANIMALS.
ADDITIONAL SUPPORT FOR "HERE &
NOW" IS PROVIDED BY THE L.E.
PHILLIPS FAMILY FOUNDATION.
>> I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON "HERE & NOW," FALLOUT
CONTINUES FROM THE TOUGH STATE
BUDGET SIGNED INTO LAW LAST
WEEK.
YOU'LL HEAR FROM THE
SUPERINTENDENT OF MADISON
SCHOOLS, SURPRISED BY THE SIZE
OF THE CUT, HIS DISTRICT END ENDED
UP TAKING WHEN THE FINAL NUMBERS
SETTLED.
WE HEARING FROM THE RESPONDENT --
RESPONDENT OF ALL SCHOOLS IN
WISCONSIN, TONY EVERS.
SHOULD PRISONERS COUNT WHEN IT
COMES TO DRAWING BOUNDARIES FOR
VOTING DISTRICT.
MICHAEL PERRY CHECKS IN.
BUT FIRST THE SHOCK AND AWE OF
TAKING AN ON MORE THAN 15% CUT
IN THE MADISON SCHOOL DISTRICT
AS A RESULT OF THE FINAL STATE
BUDGET.
I SAT DOWN WITH MADISON
SUPERINTENDENT DANIEL NERAD TO
HEAR MORE ON THAT.
>> WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WHEN
YOU LEARNED ABOUT THE 15.2%
REDUCTION?
>> WELL, IT WAS A SURPRISE.
UNDERSTANDING THAT OUR PRIOR
INFORMATION WOULD HAVE LED US TO
BELIEVE THAT THE EFFECT WAS
GOING TO BE NO GREATER THAN 10%.
AND SO WE WEREN'T ANTICIPATING
THAT AS THE PRELIMINARY AID
ESTIMATE FOR THIS NEW SCHOOL
YEAR THAT -- YOU KNOW, THAT
WE'RE HEADING INTO, BUT FROM A
BUDGET POINT OF VIEW, STARTED
NINE DAYS AGO, ON JULY 1.
AND SO THAT -- THAT WAS A REAL
DISCONNECT FOR US, AND WE'RE
STILL IN THE PROCESS OF SORTING
THROUGH, YOU KNOW, WERE THERE
SOME THINGS THAT WE
MISUNDERSTOOD AND NEEDED TO
UNDERSTAND BETTER OR WERE THERE
SOME THINGS THAT WERE
COMMUNICATED INCORRECTLY TO US
OR WAS THE DECISION IMPLEMENTED
IN A WAY THAT CHANGED IT?
AND I THINK ALL THOSE SCENARIOS
ARE POSSIBLE.
AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS, YOU
KNOW, THE DPI HAS THE
RESPONSIBILITY TO CREATE THE
PRELIMINARY AID ESTIMATE.
AND USING ALL THE THINGS THAT GO
INTO THE SCHOOL FINANCE FORMULA.
AND THAT'S WHAT IT'S NOW
SHOWING, IS A 15% LOSS.
>> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN IN
DOLLARS?
>> WELL, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
WHAT WE UNDERSTOOD TO BE A
10% -- NO GREATER THAN A 10%
LOSS IN STATE AID AND THE 15% IS
A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A LOSS OF
STATE AID OF $6 MILLION AND A
LOSS OF STATE AID OF $9 MILLION.
NOW, THAT ALSO IS SEPARATE FROM
THE WHOLE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE
LOSS AND INCREASE OF THE REVENUE
CAP, IF THAT MAKES SENSE, THAT
GOES TO AN ADDITIONAL DEFICIT
THAT WE'LL NEED TO MAKE UP.
>> AND HOW MANY DOLLARS IS THAT
ADDITIONAL DEFICIT?
>> YEAH.
AND TO EXPLAIN WHAT THAT IS, WE
WERE ANTICIPATED TO HAVE AN
INCREASE IN THE REVENUE CAP OF
$275, AND THE INCREASE IS $200.
>> AND THAT'S PER PUPIL.
>> PER PUPIL, CORRECT.
AND THAT IS A $2.8 MILLION
DIFFERENCE.
THAT AMOUNT CANNOT BE MADE UP
THROUGH PROPERTY TAX.
AND SO WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF
GATHERING OPTIONS TO MAKE THAT
GAP UP.
BUT THEN IN ADDITION, WE FACE
NOW THAT $9 MILLION LOSS IN
STATE AID.
>> WHAT MIGHT THIS MEAN TO
MADISON SCHOOLS?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, FIRST OF ALL,
WE'RE NINE DAYS INTO THE NEW
BUDGET YEAR.
WE'RE 31 DAYS FROM CHILDREN
CROSSING OUR DOORSTEP.
IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE A NEW
SCHOOL YEAR COMING.
AND NOW WE HAVE FINAL NUMBERS
THAT WE HAVE TO WORK WITH.
AND THE REALITY OF IT IS FOR US,
AS WELL AS OTHER SCHOOL
DISTRICTS -- AND I GUESS I WANT
TO -- I GUESS I HOPE THAT IN
LARGE PART THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT
THE MADISON SCHOOL DISTRICT.
YOU KNOW, MOST OF OUR DECISIONS
ARE MADE FOR THE FOLLOWING YEAR
IN FEBRUARY, WHEN WE DECIDE HOW
MANY TEACHERS DO WE NEED, WE
STAFF OUR SCHOOLS, WE MAKE
JUDGMENTS ABOUT PROGRAMS, WE
OFFER PEOPLE CONTRACTS, THEY
SIGN CONTRACTS.
AND SO A LOT OF DECISIONS HAVE
BEEN MADE.
AND I ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE I
SAY THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT THIS
IS A VERY DIFFICULT ECONOMY.
THERE'S NOTHING EASY ABOUT THIS.
AND WE UNDERSTOOD THAT THERE
WOULD BE AN EFFECT ON PUBLIC
SCHOOLS IN A WAY THAT PERHAPS
FOR THE FIRST TIME OR IN A LONG
TIME, THAT THERE WOULD BE A
NEGATIVE EFFECT.
WE UNDERSTOOD THAT.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME WE HAVE AN
OBLIGATION TO ENSURE THAT THE
EFFECT IS AN EQUITABLE ONE, AND
WE'RE STILL WORKING TO SORT THAT
OUT, TO DETERMINE IF IN FACT
THAT DIFFERENCE ON THE STATE AID
SIDE, BETWEEN THE 10% AND 15% IS
MADISON BEING DEALT WITH -- NOW
I'M BACK TO BEING THE MADISON
SUPERINTENDENT, ARE WE BEING
DEALT WITH IN A FAIR AND
EQUITABLE MANNER.
>> ASIDE FROM IT BEING
EQUITABLE, WHAT MIGHT IT MEAN IN
MADISON FOR CLASSROOMS AND KIDS?
>> WELL, PART OF IT IN MY
CONVEYING THE, YOU KNOW,
DECISIONS ARE MADE IN
FEBRUARY /MARCH IS THAT THERE
ARE SOME THINGS THAT CANNOT BE
RETRACED AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
NUMBER ONE, WE NEED A CERTAIN
NUMBER OF TEACHERS.
WE MADE A JUDGMENT ABOUT THAT.
WE CAN'T EVEN GO BACK TO RETRACE
THAT JUDGMENT BECAUSE OF THE
FACT THAT TEACHERS HAVE BEEN
GIVEN CONTRACTS AND THERE'S
LAYOFF LANGUAGE IN THE CONTRACT
THAT WE'VE PASSED THOSE DATES.
AND SO PART OF THE STRUGGLE THAT
WE'LL FACE HERE IS THAT WE HAVE
A MORE LIMITED NUMBER OF OPTIONS
THAT WE CAN CHOOSE FROM, YOU
KNOW, AND RIGHT NOW WE'RE STILL
SORTING THROUGH WHAT THOSE
OPTIONS ARE.
WE ARE GOING TO DO A
PRESENTATION TO THE BOARD OF
EDUCATION MONDAY COMING ABOUT
THE CURRENT STATE OF THE BUDGET
AS IT AFFECTS MADISON
METROPOLITAN SCHOOL DISTRICT AND
WE ARE GOING TO LAY OUT SOME
OPTIONS FOR THE BOARD TO
CONSIDER THAT BETWEEN NOW AND
AUGUST DECISIONS WILL HAVE TO BE
MADE ON.
>> GIVE US SOME SENSE OF WHAT
THOSE OPTIONS MIGHT LOOK LIKE.
>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, ON THAT
$2.8 MILLION DIFFERENCE IN THE
REVENUE CAP AMOUNT, WE ARE GOING
TO HAVE TO IDENTIFY A SOURCE OF
MONEY.
WE LOOKED AT THE POSSIBILITY OF
USING SOME OF THE STIMULUS
MONEY.
THE LONGER WE LOOK AT THAT, THE
MORE PROBLEMATIC THAT USE IS,
FOR VERY TECHNICAL REASONS
RELATED TO SOME OF THE STATE AND
MAINLY FEDERAL REGULATIONS
RELATIVE TO ITS USE.
WE HAVEN'T ELIMINATED THAT AS A
POSSIBLE OPTION IN THIS
SCENARIO.
AND SO WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT.
WE'RE LOOKING AT ARE THERE FUNDS
GOING TO BE AVAILABLE AT THE END
OF THE SCHOOL YEAR THAT WEREN'T
SPENT THAT WE COULD USE TO APPLY
TO THAT DEFICIT.
WE'RE LOOKING AT NONCLASSROOM
EXPENDITURES.
ARE THERE SOME THINGS THAT CAN
BE DELAYED.
AND WE HAVE A VERY -- JUST AN
EXAMPLE.
WE ARE A VERY -- AS MOST
DISTRICTS HAVE, A VERY AGING
VEHICLE FLEET TO TAKE CARE OF
OUR BUILDINGS, AND SO WE JUST
MADE A JUDGMENT JUST THIS WEEK
TO DELAY THE PURCHASE OF ONE OF
THOSE.
AND THOSE ARE THE DECISIONS THAT
YOU HAVE TO MAKE WITH LIMITED
OPTIONS.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME THINGS THAT
ARE NOT CONNECTED TO THE
CLASSROOM IN MY MIND MAY BE MORE
PAINFUL LONG-TERM, BUT THEY'RE
LESS PAINFUL RIGHT NOW BECAUSE
WE DON'T HAVE TO AFFECT
CLASSROOMS AND NUMBERS OF
TEACHERS.
WE'RE ATTEMPTING TO AVOID THINGS
LIKE REDUCTIONS IN MATERIALS FOR
KIDS, CURRICULUM MATERIALS.
WE'RE TRYING TO STAY AWAY FROM
THOSE AREAS.
AND SO THE OTHER CONVERSATION
THAT WE'VE JUST BEGUN IS ON THE
STATE AID -- LOSS OF STATE AID
SIDE, AND THAT -- AND THERE
OBVIOUSLY THERE IS AN ABILITY TO
MAKE UP THAT THROUGH THE
PROPERTY TAX, BUT IS THAT THE
ONLY OPTION WE CAN COME UP WITH.
AND WHAT I CAN ASSURE OUR PUBLIC
HERE IS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT AS
MANY OTHER OPTIONS AS WE CAN.
IN THE END, IT LIKE LIKELY WOULD BE A
COMBINATION OF SOME THINGS THAT
GET US SOME DOLLAR AMOUNT THAT
CAN OFFSET THAT.
>> ALL RIGHT.
DANIEL NERAD, THANKS VERY MUCH.
>> YOU'RE WELCOME.
>> IT TURNS OUT ABOUT A QUARTER
OF WISCONSIN SCHOOLS WILL TAKE
SOME 15% LESS IN GENERAL STATE
AID NEXT YEAR AND YET 90 OF THE
426 DISTRICTS ARE EXPECTED TO
RECEIVE MORE AID.
SO WHAT'S UP WITH THAT
DISPARITY?
SOME SAY THE WAY WE FUND SCHOOLS
NEEDS TO CHANGE.
MORE ON THAT ISSUE AND OTHER
SCHOOL MATTERS WITH THE NEWLY
INAUGURATED SUPERINTENDENT OF
THE WISCONSIN DEPARTMENT OF
PUBLIC INSTRUCTION, TONY EVERS.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANKS A LOT.
I APPRECIATE BEING HERE.
EXCITING TIMES.
>> YES.
WELL, CUMMINGS OFF THE COMING OFF THE INTERVIEW
WITH THE MADISON SUPERINTENDENT,
HE WONDERED IF DPI WAS INVOLVED
IN THE FINAL BUDGET PROCESS.
THE GOVERNOR TELLS US THEY WERE
NOT.
WHY NOT?
>> OUR ROLE IN THE PAST HAS BEEN
AND MY GUESS IS WILL CONTINUE IN
THE FUTURE, ALTHOUGH WE'D
PROBABLY LIKE TO DO THINGS
DIFFERENTLY, IS WE RESPOND TO
REQUESTS FOR INFORMATION AND WE
HAVE THE EXPERTISE AT THE
DEPARTMENT TO PROVIDE THAT
INFORMATION.
IF WE'RE NOT ASKED, IT'S HARD
FOR US TO KIND OF GET THE
CONTEXT OF WHAT'S GOING ON.
>> AND SO YOU WEREN'T ASKED IN
THE FINAL KIND OF HOURS AND
MINUTES OF THIS THING BEING PUT
TOGETHER IN THE CONFERENCE
COMMITTEE FOR THAT EXPERT INPUT.
>> WELL, WE'RE INVOLVED WITH THE
LEGISLATIVE PROCESS ALL ALONG.
>> RIGHT.
>> BUT AS THINGS BECOME SOUP IN
THE LATE STAGES, LOOKS TO ME
LIKE ESSENTIALLY THINGS GOT PUT
TOGETHER AND WE ARE HE WE WERE NOT ASKED
FOR AS UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION AS
NEEDED.
>> WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO
THAT?
>> WELL, I THINK THERE'S GOING
TO BE A BETTER WAY, AND I KNOW
THAT'S PART OF THE LEGISLATIVE
PROCESS, TO KIND OF PULL THINGS
TOGETHER AT THE LAST MINUTE AND
COALITIONS ARE FORMING AND NOT
FORMING.
BUT WHEN IT COMES TO IMPORTANT
ISSUES WHERE EXPERTISE IS
NEEDED, I'D SUGGEST WE NEED TO
BE A LITTLE MORE CAREFUL IN THE
FUTURE.
>> YOU THINK THAT'S HOW THIS
RESULTED, THIS KIND OF DISPARITY
IN THIS PARTICULAR FUNDING
FORMULA THAT LEFT DISTRICTS LIKE
MADISON WITH INSTEAD OF A 10%
REDUCTION, A 15.2% REDUCTION.
>> WELL, SOME OF IT HAS TO DO
WITH THE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES OF
DIFFERENT SCHOOL DISTRICTS.
IF THEY HAVE SIGNIFICANTLY
DECLINING ENROLLMENT, IF THEIR
PROPERTY VALUES ARE CHANGING.
IT'S A COMPLEX FORMULA.
I KNOW THAT'S PART OF ANOTHER
SHOW PROBABLY.
BUT IT CAN'T ALL BE BLAMED, THIS
DISPARITY, ON JUST THAT, THIS
LACK OF COMMUNICATION, LACK OF
ASKING QUESTIONS.
BUT CLEARLY THAT'S SOME OF WHAT
WENT ON WHEN THEY WERE TRYING TO
PUT TOGETHER THE BUDGET, THAT
INFORMATION WASN'T ASKED FOR OR
PROVIDED FOR US, BECAUSE WE
DIDN'T KNOW THE QUESTIONS WERE
THERE.
>> WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN
DIFFERENT HAD YOU BEEN ABLE TO
GIVE THEM THAT?
>> WELL, I THINK THEY WOULD HAVE
HAD BETTER INFORMATION AND MY
BELIEF IS THAT MADISON'S
SITUATION MIGHT BE A BIT
DIFFERENT IN THAT THEY'D BE
BASING IT ON THE CORRECT
YEAR'S -- THE BASE YEAR OF
FINANCIAL DATA WHICH THEY DIDN'T
USE.
THEY USED A PREVIOUS YEAR.
BUT TECHNICALLY, YOU KNOW, ALL
THAT STUFF ASIDE, THE IMPORTANT
THING IS THAT WE ESTABLISH A
SYSTEM OF COMMUNICATION SO THAT
THAT DOES HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE,
WHERE WE ARE ASKED, BECAUSE WE
DO HAVE PEOPLE THAT PROVIDE THAT
INFORMATION.
BUT KIND OF LONG-TERM I THINK
IT'S IN EVERYBODY'S BEST
INTEREST NOW TO KIND OF TAKE A
BREATH AND SEE WHAT WE CAN DO TO
FIND A DIFFERENT WAY TO FUND OUR
SCHOOLS.
>> WHAT WILL YOU BE DOING TOWARD
THAT AND WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO
SEE DIFFERENT?
>> WELL, I THINK THE TIME IS
RIGHT RIGHT NOW.
I SAID THAT DURING THE CAMPAIGN
AND I'LL SAY IT AGAIN.
I BELIEVE THIS IS THE PERFECT
TIME FOR PEOPLE TO PROVIDE -- TO
ACT AS POLICYMAKERS, WHETHER
IT'S LEGISLATORS, MYSELF, OTHERS
INTERESTED IN CHANGING THE
FUNDING FORMULA SO IT'S MORE
FAIR, MORE ROBUST, MORE CLEAR
AND TRANSPARENT.
THAT WOULD BE A WONDERFUL THING.
THE TIME IS NOW BECAUSE THERE'S
NO MONEY.
THERE'S -- WE WON'T BE FIGHTING
OVER SCRAPS ON THE TABLE.
AND SO I'M HOPEFUL TO WORK WITH
THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AND
INTEREST GROUPS OVER THE NEXT
COUPLE MONTHS AND MAYBE WE CAN
FIND SOME NEW WAYS TO TAKE A
LOOK AT THIS PROBLEM THAT'S MORE
COMPREHENSIVE, THAT IS NOT
LAST-MINUTE KIND OF ADJUSTING
THINGS AT THE ENDS END OF A BUDGET
CYCLE.
>> MOVING ALONG, WISCONSIN IS
MOVING TOWARD NEW ACADEMIC
STANDARDS IN ENGLISH AND MATH.
HOW MUCH TOUGHER WILL THEY BE?
>> I THINK THERE WILL BE TWO
THINGS THAT WILL HAPPEN.
ONE IS THAT THERE WILL BE SOME
MORE RIGOR.
I THINK OUR WISCONSIN STANDARDS
ARE PRETTY GOOD NOW, BUT THEY
WILL BE MORE -- A BIT MORE
RIGOROUS, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY
THEY'LL BE CONSISTENT WITH OTHER
STATES AROUND THE COUNTRY.
I KNOW PARENTS AND MEDIA AND
OTHERS ALWAYS HAVE DIFFICULTY
WHEN WE GET AROUND TO COMPARING
SCHOOLS, COMPARING STATES
BECAUSE EVERYBODY HAS SOMETHING
A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
THIS WILL EVENTUALLY MORPH INTO
A NATIONAL EDUCATION OF
STANDARDS.
I GUESS IF I WASN'T A PARENT I
WOULDN'T WORRY ABOUT WHETHER
WE'RE GOING TO GET THROUGH THIS.
THERE WILL BE SOME CHANGES, BUT
IT WILL BE MORE VISIBLE FROM
30,000 FEET THAN RIGHT IN THE
CLASSROOM.
>> IT IS ES EXPECTED TO BE TOUGHER,
THOUGH.
>> YES.
YES.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS
IMPORTANT TO ME IS TO HAVE EVERY
CHILD A GRADUATE AND THAT KIND
OF -- THE NEWER STANDARDS AND
HIGHER EXPECTATIONS FIT RIGHT
INTO THAT, BECAUSE WE HAVE TO DO
BETTER WITH OUR GRADUATION
RATES, BUT ALSO MAKE SURE KIDS
ARE PREPARED FOR COLLEGE AND THE
WORKFORCE.
>> WHEN SHOULD WE EXPECT THEM TO
GO INTO EFFECT?
>> WELL, WE WILL BE WORKING WITH
40 -- WE'VE GOT OUR SET NOW.
NOW WE'RE GOING TO BE WORKING
WITH 46 OTHER STATES TO FIND THE
COMMON GROUND FOR THOSE
STANDARDS.
AND THAT WILL BE DONE SOMETIME
WITHIN THE NEXT -- I WOULD SAY
BY NEXT SPRING WE'LL BE LOOKING
AT STANDARDS AND THEN OF COURSE
THAT KIND OF FEEDS INTO TESTING,
WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO WITH
TESTING AND OUR ACCOUNTABILITY
SYSTEM.
IT'S A BIG PROJECT.
BUT IT'S EXCITING.
WE'RE IN A REAL GOOD PLACE RIGHT
NOW.
>> WE JUST HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE
LEFT.
SO I WANT TO OF COURSE IN A
MINUTE TACKLE MPS.
DPI IS ORDERING MPS TO TAKE
CORRECTIVE ACTION.
HOW MUCH PRESSURE WILL DPI EXERT
ON MPS TO DO THAT?
>> FIRST OF ALL, IT'S GOING TO
BE A COLLABORATIVE PROCESS.
WE DO HAVE EXPECTATIONS.
WE HAVE A CLEARLY-DELINEATED
EXPECTATIONS ABOUT CONSISTENCY
OF CURRICULUM.
INTERVENTIONS, ACTING MORE
DIRECTLY WITH THEIR COMMUNITY.
WE'LL BE MONITORING THAT,
BRINGING THAT NOT ONLY TO THE
SCHOOL BOARD, OUR CONTINUAL
UPDATES, BUT ALSO THE MAYOR AND
HE'S GOT AN INNOVATION AND
IMPROVEMENT COUNCIL.
THEY WILL BE INVOLVED WITH THAT
ALSO.
>> VERY QUICKLY, HOW WILL YOU
KNOW THAT THIS CORRECTIVE ACTION
HAS WORKED?
>> WE HAVE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND
THERE EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK.
WE WILL BE ABLE AT THE END OF
THE YEAR TO SAY WHAT THOSE PLANS
ARE, HOW HAS IT IMPROVED STUDENT
LEARNING.
>> ALL RIGHT.
TONY EVERS, THANKS VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> A PRISON HEADCOUNT SHOULDN'T
COUNT WHEN IT COMES TO MAPPING
POLITICAL BOUNDARIES IN
WISCONSIN.
THAT'S WHAT ONE LEGISLATOR SAY
IN CALLING FOR A CHANGE TO THE
STATE'S CONSTITUTION THAT WOULD
PREVENT PRISON INMATES FROM
BEING COUNTED AS PART OF THE
VOTING POPULATION IN A
PARTICULAR AREA WHEN IT COMES TO
REDISTRICTING.
MILWAUKEE STATE REPRESENTATIVE
FRED KESSLER SAYS IT'S NOT FAIR
TO COUNT INMATES.
HE JOINS US FROM MILWAUKEE.
OSHKOSH REPRESENTATIVE RICHARD
SPANBAUER HAS MORE THAN 5,000
PRISON INMATES IN HIS
DISSTRIBLGHTS.
HEDISSTRIBLGHTS.
HE SAYS THE LAW SHOULDN'T
CHANGE.
THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.
>> THANK YOU.
>> FRED KESSLER, WHY DON'T YOU
WANT TO COUNT PRISON INMATES FOR
PURPOSES OF POLITICAL BOUNDARYS?
>> WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF
REASONS, BUT PROBABLY THE MOST
IMPORTANT REASON IS THEY DON'T
HAVE ANY CONNECTION WITH THE
COMMUNITIES THAT THE PRISON IS
LOCATED IN.
AND THEN OF COURSE THERE ARE
OTHER REASONS.
THEY RECEIVE NO SERVICES FROM
THOSE COMMUNITIES.
THEIR FAMILIES DON'T LIVE IN
THOSE COMMUNITIES.
AND IT'S UNFAIR TO INCREASE THE
VALUE OF THE VOTE OF A CITIZEN
WHO LIVES IN A DISTRICT LIKE
DISTRICT 53, WHERE NEARLY 10% OF
THE TOTAL POPULATION IS AN
INMATE IN A CORRECTIONAL
INSTITUTION.
>> IN FACT, REPRESENTATIVE
SPANBAUER, I THINK IT'S ABOUT
9.5% BY LAST COUNT OF THE PEOPLE
IN YOUR DISTRICT ARE
INCARCERATED.
WHY SHOULD YOU GET TO REPRESENT
THEM AS VOTERS WHEN THEY CAN'T
EVEN VOTE?
>> WELL, I DON'T THINK IT'S JUST
A CASE OF REPRESENTING THE
INMATES THAT ARE IN THE PRISON
SYSTEM.
MY BIGGEST THING IS THE FACT OF
THE PEOPLE THAT ARE AROUND THE
PRISONS.
WHEN YOU START CROSSING OUT
BODIES FOR CENSUS COUNT, YOU
COULD BE ALSO CHANGING THE
AMOUNT OF REPRESENTATION ONE
IS -- THE AFFECTED AREA HAS --
CAN HAVE ON ITS DISTRICT, I
SHOULD SAY, AND ALSO IT COULD
HAVE AN EFFECT ON THE MONIES,
EITHER FROM THE FEDERAL AND/OR
THE STATE -- AT THE STATE LEVEL.
SO THE CENSUS HAS ALWAYS MEANT
TO COUNT LIVE PERSONS, WHETHER
THEY BE IN AN INSTITUTION OR A
RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT OR IF
THEY'RE IN THE HOSPITAL.
>> I DON'T OBJECT TO COUNTING
PEOPLE.
WE'RE NOT TRYING TO THROW OUT
PRISON GUARDS.
THEY SHOULD BE COUNTED BECAUSE
THEY VOTE.
BUT THE FACT IS PEOPLE WHO ARE
INCARCERATED DON'T VOTE, DON'T
RECEIVE ANY SERVICES.
AND WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO IS
WE'RE ALSO TRYING TO DEAL WITH
THIS ON THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT
LEVEL.
IN CERTAIN AREAS, IN
REPRESENTATIVE SPANBAUER'S
DISTRICT, IF YOU LIVED ON THE
NORTH SIDE OF THE CITY OF
WAUPUN, THERE'S ONE WARD WHERE
775 PEOPLE VOTED IN THE LAST
ELECTION, BUT THE WARD THAT HAD
THE PRISON ONLY HAD 192 PEOPLE
VOTING BECAUSE FOR THAT WARD YOU
HAD TO COUNT THOSE PRISONERS.
WHY SHOULD SOMEBODY ON THE SOUTH
SIDE OF WAUPUN BE WORTH FIVE
TIMES OR FOUR TIMES AS MUCH AS
SOMEBODY ELSE?
I'D LIKE REPRESENTATIVE
SPANBAUER TO EXPLAIN THAT TO HIS
CITIZENS IN WAUPUN.
>> GO AHEAD.
>> WELL, HERE IS THE SITUATION
THAT YOU'RE OVER LUKING. -- OVERLOOKING.
WHAT YOU'RE SAYING TECHNICALLY
IS TRUE.
YOU KNOW THIS YOURSELF AND MOST
PEOPLE KNOW THIS BY READING THE
NEWSPAPER.
WHEN THERE'S BEEN ELECTIONS
WHERE THERE AIN'T NO PRISONS, 10
OR 15% PEOPLE VOTE.
IN A PRIMARY, YOU'RE LUCKY IF
YOU GET 15% OF THE PEOPLE TO
COME OUT.
SO AS FAR AS VOTING, TO ME
THAT'S NOT AN ISSUE.
BUT IT DOES AFFECT THE NUMBER OF
REPRESENTATIVES THAT YOU MAY
HAVE REPRESENTING THE DISTRICT
AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE
FUNDS.
IT STILL COMES DOWN TO NUMBERS,
WHETHER THEY'RE INMATES OR
WHETHER THEY'RE LOCATED.
IT'S THE MONEY PART OF IT.
I THINK PERSONALLY MY FEELING
HERE IS -- AND I THINK WE'VE
GONE THROUGH THIS MORE THAN ONCE
IN THESE DECADES.
EVERY TEN YEARS WE GET A CENSUS.
I REALLY FEEL IT COMES DOWN TO
REDISTRICTING.
AND FOR SOME REASON, I CAN'T
HELP BELIEVE THAT THIS MIGHT BE
A DEMOCRAT SITUATION TO TRY AND
CHANGE THE DISTRICTING BECAUSE
OF THE NUMBERS.
>> WELL, REPRESENTATIVE
SPANBAUER, IN FACT I WAS GOING
TO ASK YOU WHAT YOU BELIEVE THE
POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS OF THIS
MIGHT BE.
I NOTE THE DISTRICTS WITH MY
NUMBERS OF PRISON INMATES IN
THEM ARE HELD BY REPUBLICANS.
>> I'M GOING TO DISAGREE WITH
YOU ON THAT.
FOR INSTANCE, THERE'S A PRISON
IN MILWAUKEE THAT HAS HIGH
NUMBERS.
AMONG THE HIGHEST NUMBERED
ASSEMBLY DISTRICTS IS RACINE
CORRECTIONAL INSTITUTE,
REPRESENTED BY CORY MASON.
THE SECOND HIGHEST NUMBER OF
PRISONERS IS REPRESENTED BY FRED
CLARK, A DEMOCRAT.
THERE ISN'T A PARTISAN IMPACT IN
THIS.
THIS AFFECTS LOCAL GOVERNMENT,
COUNTY BOARDS.
THERE'S NO REASON, FOR INSTANCE,
THAT A CITIZEN OF TAYCHEEDAH
OUGHT TO HAVE THEIR WORTH --
THEIR VOTE WORTH MORE THAN A
CITIZEN WHO LIVES IN THE TOWN OF
OSOSSEOLA.
>> FRED KESSLER, I WANTED TO ASK
THIS.
THE U.S. CENSUS COUNTS INMATES
WHERE THEY ARE HOUSED AND THOSE
NUMBERS ARE USED WHEN IT COMES
TO MAPPING LEGISLATIVE
BOUNDARIES.
WOULD YOUR PLAN MEAN THAT THE
CENSUS WOULD HAVE TO DETERMINE
THE PERMANENT HOME OF RECORD AND
IS THAT WHERE THE CASE, WOULDN'T
YOUR VERY OWN DISTRICT END EP
POTENTIALLY WITH MANY MORE
NUMBERS?
>> WE THOUGHT ABOUT DOING THAT
AND WE DECIDED NOT TO.
WE DECIDED THE FAIREST WAY IS
NOT TO COUNT THEM RATHER THAN
COUNT THEM IN THE DISTRICT WHERE
THEY LIVED BEFORE THEY WERE
INCARCERATED.
THAT WOULD BE HARD, MORE
CONFUSING TO DO.
THIS IS SIMPLE TO DO BECAUSE YOU
CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THE BLOCK
POPULATION IN PLACES LIKE
WAUPUN, WHICH IS BASICALLY IN A
SQUARE BLOCK, OR -- AND YOU HAVE
ALREADY THE DATA ON
INSTITUTIONALIZED PERSONS THAT
THE CENSUS GIVES US.
SO THIS IS MUCH CLEANER AND IT
ALSO AFFECTS LOCAL GOVERNMENT
AND I THINK EQUALIZES THE
REPRESENTATION BETWEEN VARIOUS
COMMUNITIES FOR COUNTY BOARD
REPRESENTATION AND EQUALIZES THE
POPULATION IN CITIES THAT HAVE
PRISONS.
>> REPRESENTATIVE SPANBAUER, I
CUT YOU OFF BEFORE.
GO AHEAD.
>> IT STILL DOESN'T -- I THINK
REPRESENTATIVE KESSLER IS RIGHT
IN SOME ISSUES, AND I UNDERSTAND
WHERE HE'S GOING THERE.
I'LL GIVE HIM THAT.
BUT IT STILL COMES DOWN WHEN
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT NUMBERS, TO
ME IT'S THE REPRESENTATION AND
IT'S PER CAPITA.
IT'S MONIES THAT COME BACK TO
THE DISTRICT.
AND I DARE SAY I WAS AT A
WISCONSIN COUNCIL ASSOCIATION
MEETING LAST NIGHT -- IT'S
ALREADY BEEN ON THE RADIO THE
LAST TWO, THREE DAYS.
I'VE TALKED TO OTHER PEOPLE
ABOUT THIS IN MY DISTRICT
BECAUSE I HAVE A HUGE DISTRICT,
21 MUNICIPALITIES, ALL THE WAY
DOWN TO WAUPUN FROM THE TOWN OF
OSHKOSH.
THEY HAVE SAID THE SAME THING.
THEY DON'T WANT TO BE EXCLUDED
WHEN IT COMES TO BEING COUNTED
FOR AS FAR AS WHEN YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT MONEY, BECAUSE
THERE IS STILL MONEY THAT'S
BASED ON THE FACT THAT WHAT YOUR
CENSUS IS AND WHAT YOUR
PER CAPITA IS.
>> ALL RIGHT.
>> IT'S SOMETHING I HAVE TO
PROTECT.
>> WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.
OF COURSE, SHOULD THIS GO AHEAD,
THE VOTERS HAVE THE SAY.
WE THANK BOTH OF YOU FOR JOINING
US ON THIS.
>> THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
>> NOW, THE STATE UPDATES ITS
POLITICAL BOUNDARIES EVERY TEN
YEARS.
THIS PLAN WOULD NEED TO BE
PASSED BY TWO CONSECUTIVE
SESSIONS OF THE LEGISLATURE AND
THE MAJORITY OF VOTERS AND THAT
COULD HAPPEN BY APRIL 2011, IN
TIME FOR THE NEXT REDISTRICTING.
WE SWITCH GEARS NOW FOR OUR "END
INSIGHT" SEGMENT, A NEW VIDEO
ESSAY FROM MICHAEL PERRY.
MIKE'S BEEN ON THE ROAD TOURING
ALL OVER THE COUNTRY WITH HIS
NEW BOOK.
WE WONDERED WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO
GO ON TOUR WITH MIKE PERRY.
? ?
>> HOW YOU DOING?
I'VE COME TO THE CITY TO TALK
ABOUT THE COUNTRY.
IT'S THE LAST NIGHT OF A LONG
AND REWARDING BOOK TOUR THAT'S
GONE ON FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS
AND WE'RE GOING TO WRAP IT UP
TONIGHT ABOUT 3.5 HOURS FROM MY
CHICKEN COOP RIGHT HERE IN DOWN
TOWN MADISON, WISCONSIN.
>> WELL, WE ARE AT THE
BOOKSTORE.
IN ABOUT 20 MINUTES I'M GOING TO
DO A BOOK READING IN HERE.
IT AIN'T EXACTLY ROCK AND ROLL,
BUT I LIKE IT.
>> HI.
>> ARE YOU MICHAEL?
>> YEAH.
>> HI, MIKE.
>> HI.
THANKS FOR COMING.
THAT WILL HELP TONIGHT.
YOU GET TO SAY THANK YOU IN
PERSON TO PEOPLE WHO READ YOUR
BOOKS.
>> I HAVE A PRESENT FOR YOU.
>> OH, THANK YOU.
I'M SURE WHAT IT IS.
I SPOKE AT A GRADUATION AND
SOMEBODY BROUGHT ME A PHOTO FROM
THE GRADUATION.
IT WAS MY SISTER'S COLLEGE
GRADUATION.
PEOPLE DO NICE THINGS FOR YOU ON
BOOK TOUR.
THEY BRING YOU NICE STUFF.
THIS IS THE QUIET BEFORE THE
STORM.
IT'S AS CLOSE YOU GET TO BACK
STAGE.
YOU GET TO HANG OUT IN THE BACK
OF BOOKSTORES, LOOK AT POSTERS
OF BOOK.
THIS OFFICE IS EXTRA INTRIGUING
BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK, THE LITTLE
CUBICLE DECIDER DEE DEECUBICLE DIVIDER IS AN OLD
RESTROOM DOOR.
DENVER, BOULDER, SAN FRANCISCO,
SEATTLE, PORTLAND, OREGON.
THEN I FLEW TO DETROIT.
I RENTDED A CAR AND STARTED
DRIVING THROUGH MICHIGAN AND
MAKING A LOOP UNDERNEATH THE BIG
LAKE BACK TO HOME.
AND WENT DOWN THROUGH ILLINOIS,
IOWA, NEBRASKA, KANSAS,
MISSOURI, ST. LOUIS, BACK ON
HOME.
>> I'M VERY HAPPY AND PLEASED TO
PRESENT TO YOU MICHAEL PERRY.
THANK YOU.
[APPLAUSE]
>> SOMETIMES I ROLL IN THE YARD
AND I WILL PARK THE CAR AND WALK
OUT AND PEEK IN THE CHICKEN COOP
AND LOOK AT THE LITTLE CHICAGOS,
CHICAGO -- CHICKS, MAKE SURE
THEY'RE OKAY.
THEN I'LL GO IN THE HOUSE AND GO
TO SLEEP WITH MY FAMILY.
>> WELL, THANKS SO MUCH FOR
COMING TONIGHT, BUT I WANT TO
START TONIGHT WITH A STORY THAT
TAKES ME BACK HOME, AND SO I
LIKE TO BEGIN WITH IT.
SINCE THE BOOK HAS COME OUT, I
RECEIVED A NUMBER OF EMAILS AND
LETTERS FROM PEOPLE SAYING --
>> WE HAVE ENJOYED MICHAEL
PERRY'S VIDEO ESSAYS ON HEE HEE, -- "HERE
& NOW," BUT YOU'LL SEE THEM ON
"IN WISCONSIN."
WE APPRECIATE HIS CONTRIBUTIONS
TO WISCONSIN PUBLIC TELEVISION.
WE WILL FEATURE LIVE VIDEO
STREAMING ON OUR WEBSITE NEXT
WEEK OF THE U.S. SENATE
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS FOR
SUPREME COURT NOMINEE SONIA SODA
SEWED -- WE WILL ALSO BE
BROADCASTING THE "NEWSHOUR"'S
COVERAGE LIVE ON THE WISCONSIN
CHANNEL.
THAT IS ALL FOR TONIGHT'S
PROGRAM.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.
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